Ritolation
New member
Horseless said:
I hope you have a hoof trimmer close by. 6I6 are not bad cattle, But the feet
! Most of ours sorted themselves very young. One lasted to be a Seven year old. All sorted on feet. Good luckNon-EXT Sire questions
- Thread starter Horseless
- Start date
I hope you have a hoof trimmer close by. 6I6 are not bad cattle, But the feet
! Most of ours sorted themselves very young. One lasted to be a Seven year old. All sorted on feet. Good luckNorthern Rancher
Well-known member
I've A'I'ed lots of Really windy daughters and haven't noticed any problems as far as disposition. I'd be selling alot of semen still on the bull if it was still available. Denny why would you prefer a negative EN E.P.D.
Faster horses
Well-known member
Tomwall Pied Piper. I had forgotten about him. The Tomwall cattle were moderate and were honest cattle, just like Tom Walling.
That bull sounds interesting BMR. And as I recall, you didn't ASK our opinion before you bought the Really Windy. :shock: :wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That bull sounds interesting BMR. And as I recall, you didn't ASK our opinion before you bought the Really Windy. :shock: :wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:Northern Rancher
Well-known member
I didn't especially like his mothers udder so I quit investigating things after that.
RobertMac
Well-known member
FH said:
I doubt that anyone that wouldn't buy LL's bulls understands what he said!!!! And it had nothing to do with EPDs.
If a breed is bred exclusively for "Breed Character", wouldn't all EPD numbers be breed average?
How long has Angus been a registered breed? some 500 years?
The real question should be...why does the breed still have flawed udders?
What is the definition of a 'flawed' udder?
My first thought would be a sorry calf!
Soapweed
Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Even if a cow can raise a great calf, if she requires extra labor each year to get her calf up and sucking, I would consider that a flawed udder also.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Faster horses said:Tomwall Pied Piper. I had forgotten about him. The Tomwall cattle were moderate and were honest cattle, just like Tom Walling.
That bull sounds interesting BMR. And as I recall, you didn't ASK our opinion before you bought the Really Windy. :shock: :wink:
It must be a son of a gun to be getting older FH.The memory is the first to go.
Check out this link. http://www.ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24875&highlight=windy
A
Anonymous
Guest
How about that old Papa Forte 1921 bull #11620690 ? I'd almost forgot about him until I was looking thru the Horse Butte sires...Anyone have any experiences with him ?
I see that several semen outfits still have semen on him...
http://bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=293
I see that several semen outfits still have semen on him...
http://bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=293
Faster horses
Well-known member
They aren't gentle, I can tell you that. Good otherwise tho, if you
can put up with their dispositions. It's more a problem when you are working them, but thats when you don't need a problem.
can put up with their dispositions. It's more a problem when you are working them, but thats when you don't need a problem.
Faster horses
Well-known member
Whew, I'm glad I didn't change my story, BMR. How do you find those long ago posts?
I had forgotten about Right Time. Good bull. Good females. I'd rate him at the top but he is EXT bred.
I had forgotten about Right Time. Good bull. Good females. I'd rate him at the top but he is EXT bred.
High Plains
Well-known member
I'd be willing to get an education here, knabe, but you're going to have to clue me in on some reference material or a link or something. Any ideas on where I can learn more about the statement you've made??
HP
HP
WB
Well-known member
I have never had any foot problems with 6I6. Oldest cows are 5 now should be seeing some problems if it were there. The old bull is 13 yrs. old and the last I heard was still producing semen. Life in a bull stud is not that easy on poor structured critters. I have around 10 duaghters that are yearlings that I think will be around here a long while.
Grassfarmer
Well-known member
Soapweed said:
Why set the standards for udders so low :? I recall when I was posting a picture of my 22 year old Luing cow that has always reared a good calf and has never required assistance to calf or suckle in her life she was being condemned for having a poor udder. I guess you should add "picture perfect" - like an Angus" :roll: to the criteria. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Faster horses
Well-known member
Post the picture again, and we'll take another look.
I'm with Soapweed. And if you see a bad udder, more than
likely she'll cause you some problems some time or other.
We'd rather get rid of them before that happens.
I'm with Soapweed. And if you see a bad udder, more than
likely she'll cause you some problems some time or other.
We'd rather get rid of them before that happens.
RobertMac
Well-known member
Grassfarmer said:
Functional efficiency! :clap:
Hay Feeder
Well-known member
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Luing are great cattle. Salers got a better $ promoter from Idaho to start that breed. Luing cattle were then better and are now better cattle.
Grassfarmer
Well-known member
Apologies for inadvertantly turning this into a Luing thread but will post the pictures as FH requested.
Old cow when she was 19 - you can see her fault, the front quarter nearest the camera is bigger than the others. Unfortunately I only ever get a shot from this side. I still do not think that is bad for an old cow that has never needed assistance suckling.
This was the calf she reared that year - pictured about 5 months old.
I too was intrigued by knabes comment. One thing I have noticed by observation is that the cows I consider my best consistently reproduce daughters in their own likeness. To me this is the mark of a great cow - if you have a good one of a phenotype you like it doesn't matter what bull you breed her to she will have the genetic ability to overpower the crappy genes.
Case in point I bought a bunch of commercial red Angus cows bred to a bull from Canada's biggest "hybrid" sellers. A Simmy x Angus bull :roll: Pictured below are two of the few offspring I have left (they were only born in 2001)
First a typical daughter of these "production" mongrel bulls out of a reasonable Angus cow - real poor holstein type phenotype, long legs, no flesh, thin boned - garbage.
Second a daughter of the best cow of that bunch - an <1100lb true Red Angus maternal type cow.
A very poor picture - this cow is wider deeper and thicker than the picture shows. She is very much her mothers phenotype, a real good cow that is no trouble. Only problem is she will weigh over 1400lb :shock: :shock: Out of a 1100lb mother! that's "performance" genetics for you. I hope this illustrates the point I was trying to make and that somehow Knabes comment can maybe explain this - at least the cows influence being greater than the bulls.
Old cow when she was 19 - you can see her fault, the front quarter nearest the camera is bigger than the others. Unfortunately I only ever get a shot from this side. I still do not think that is bad for an old cow that has never needed assistance suckling.
This was the calf she reared that year - pictured about 5 months old.
I too was intrigued by knabes comment. One thing I have noticed by observation is that the cows I consider my best consistently reproduce daughters in their own likeness. To me this is the mark of a great cow - if you have a good one of a phenotype you like it doesn't matter what bull you breed her to she will have the genetic ability to overpower the crappy genes.
Case in point I bought a bunch of commercial red Angus cows bred to a bull from Canada's biggest "hybrid" sellers. A Simmy x Angus bull :roll: Pictured below are two of the few offspring I have left (they were only born in 2001)
First a typical daughter of these "production" mongrel bulls out of a reasonable Angus cow - real poor holstein type phenotype, long legs, no flesh, thin boned - garbage.
Second a daughter of the best cow of that bunch - an <1100lb true Red Angus maternal type cow.
A very poor picture - this cow is wider deeper and thicker than the picture shows. She is very much her mothers phenotype, a real good cow that is no trouble. Only problem is she will weigh over 1400lb :shock: :shock: Out of a 1100lb mother! that's "performance" genetics for you.
I hope this illustrates the point I was trying to make and that somehow Knabes comment can maybe explain this - at least the cows influence being greater than the bulls.Northern Rancher
Well-known member
The best bull for udder quality that I've used is my seven year old 011 son from Fraser's-he calves well and leaves perfect udders-he doesn't make them very big either so that's fine with me. My semen bank is getting down on him so I imagine he'll be heading into stud for one last hurrah. If anything I'd like him to be stronger in the pasterns but so far haven't had to cull any daughters for feet. He marbled over 5 with 4 mls of backfat so a bit of a carcass bull too-we've done pretty well on the grid with his calves too.