Old Time Values

[nonothing]

That's a generalization. Some do and some don't.[/quo



some do some dont? would that not be a generalization in term?

 

[nonothing]

Look, even in NYC, there are neighborhoods where people know each other for 40 years.

I grew up in the country (pop. 500) and I agree that in the country you know everybody. However you may be no closer to them than you are to your neighbors in the city. Believe me, I know what's it's like to be on the outside in the country.

no one is dissputeing that there are good nieghbors in the city.All that was implied was that rural living involves closer ties to everyones personal bussness.I personially perfere the honesty of city living.

 

[Soapweed]

There is a saying that applies: "There is not much to see in a small town, but what you hear more than makes up for it." :wink:

It is a glib, flippant phrase, but for better or worse, it is more truth than fiction.

 

[Soapweed]

I was speaking more in the way that so many things that rurual people view as issues to city people just aren't. Rural people seemed more involved in others business while in the city nobody really knows anothers business.

Rural people care about their neighbors. City people don't even know their neighbors.

That's a generalization. Some do and some don't.

Okay, I'll admit what I said is a generalization. But it is no more a "generalization" than CattleRMe's post which said, "Rural people seemed more involved in others business while in the city nobody really knows anothers business."

"Fight generalizations with generalizations," that's what I say. :wink:

Stereotypes may not be politically correct, but they are not to be entirely discounted. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

My mother came from a long line of Minnesota Democrats. Upon marrying my dad back in 1950, she immediately "saw the light" and became a Republican. Her family stayed Democratic for quite a few more years, and family reunions could get "interesting" to say the least. In the last twenty years, many of my mother's relatives have switched to the Republican ticket. Her brother and his wife commented, "As Christians, we could no longer support the Democrat stand on many issues." These include gay marriage and abortion.

Anyway, it is refreshing to see intelligent people use their intelligence to make a change for the better. Wise people can change their minds; fools never do.

 

[RoperAB]

Liberals tend to look for government to solve their problems.
Conservatives tend to look at government as the problem.

you said
This isn't true, though, either. "Conservatives" like to have the government involved in things, too, or so it would seem.
The gay marriage ammendment springs to mind. The intertwining of church and state.
My reply
You said you did not want government involved in marriage.
I agreed and said, fine that the government should get out of the nmarriage business and leave it to the church.
So which is it? Separate church from state or have them together?
you said
I guess I read her point as being the church should stick with religious aspects and the government should stick with the legal aspects.
REPLY
Im thinking you wont be satisfied until gays can make a total mockery out of marriage and the church and that liberals are all in favor of any means to reach their objective.
Why not make it a national referendum and let everybody vote on it?
If it passes allow gay marriage. If it doesnt pass make the whole act that goes against nature and God illegal so we dont have to talk about this or think about this anymore.

 

[RoperAB]

Well which is it?
Separate church from state or have them together?
In Canada if you live with someone for a few months <cant remember how many> you are considered common law. That entitles you to alomony and other stuff if you split up. Why isnt this enough for the Rosie Odonald types that want to rub it in the churches face and adopt children just to prove a point?
I tell you what, put it to a vote. If the majority of people in a state or province wants to allow gays to marry or mormons to have sixteen wives or to allow a post menapausal woman to be able to marry there own sons who are of legal age, then so be it if the majority of people vote for it.
I know how the vote would go in Alberta.

Whoa, slow down there. Where did you get the incest from?

Marriage and divorce does differ from state to state, as does (did?) legal drinking age. Incest is outlawed everywhere.

I think polyagamy and polyandry is a mistake but I agree that if a state wants to allow it OR GAY MARRIAGE, then it's their choice.

Adoption is an understandable issue because in some states if lesbians have a child, it is the child of the biological parent and the other is not allowed to adopt it I believe. REgardless of how many years they raise it together and regardless of the role of the non-biological parent.

My gay friend told me back when this started that it was the WRONG issue for gays to focus on -- marriage -- but I understand the sentimental reasons. However the only real justification are partner rights in terms of insurance, next of kin rights, healthcare...

:shock: So you are okay with polyagamy :shock:
You know as a guy I would be okay with it if I was selfesh and did not care about women and most of all the children of these marriages.
Please explain to me why gay marriage is okay but incest when the woman is post menapausal and the guy is of a legal age is wrong.
Please explain how allowing two gay guys to adopt children is in the best interest of the child.

 

[jigs]

Saying you have to be clear over to one direction or another is just as ridiculous as saying if you don't live on the East Coast, you must live on the West.

It's bogus.
But as has been pointed out before, there is a faction here that seems bound and determined to draw their lines and people had just better stay on their teams or else.

But then, there is that small percentage of the country that's not sick of the partisanship, and apparently they all gather here. :wink:

if I were to get hit in the head, become stupid and switch to liberalism, I still would not want you on my team. you are full of anger for some reason, and hell bent on having it your way or no way, which stiffens my opinion that liberals want a divided country, because that is where they get thier power and votes.

with this anger I really question your teaching at Bible school. especially when you label the lutern kids as heathens.....

judge not lest ye be judged?

 

[kolanuraven]

I'm gonna guess and say the Lutheran statement was just a " tee-hee" .

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I'm gonna guess and say the Lutheran statement was just a " tee-hee" .

Did that just come to you or did it take the History major in you to figger that one out? :wink:

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Look, even in NYC, there are neighborhoods where people know each other for 40 years.

I grew up in the country (pop. 500) and I agree that in the country you know everybody. However you may be no closer to them than you are to your neighbors in the city. Believe me, I know what's it's like to be on the outside in the country.

no one is dissputeing that there are good nieghbors in the city.All that was implied was that rural living involves closer ties to everyones personal bussness.I personially perfere the honesty of city living.

The honesty in city living :???: Sorry I was raised in the City of Calgary,no didn't know our next door nieghbors,couldn't count on them helping you out! Man I LOVE the country,maybe everyone knows your business,but in a tight or even not so tight spot they are there for you,the saying it takes a village to raise a child,yes sir it does and I wouldn't have it any other way

 

[Steve]

HMW wrote

What makes someone's subsidy payment so much more acceptable than a single mom working her way through college on work-study and taking ADC, WIC, and anything else she can get in order to pay the bills?

when a person strives to make themselves and thier life better few really complain..............

but when you see a person stick a needle in themselves, drink and live off thier children, all the while destroying their children's prospect of having a better future, it is time to question a system that promotes a lifestyle of derilection..........

when we give a drug addict a meal it allows then to use what meager money they have to buy more drugs...when we give them a place to stay, we again let them use thier money to buy more drugs...........

weather the drug is alcohol, meth, or any other crap,,welfare for most "enables" the abuser to spend more on thier vice...........even if the vice is laziness.....

I support helping those helping themselves..............but not chronic welfare.............

 

[RoperAB]

Whoa, slow down there. Where did you get the incest from?

Marriage and divorce does differ from state to state, as does (did?) legal drinking age. Incest is outlawed everywhere.

I think polyagamy and polyandry is a mistake but I agree that if a state wants to allow it OR GAY MARRIAGE, then it's their choice.

Adoption is an understandable issue because in some states if lesbians have a child, it is the child of the biological parent and the other is not allowed to adopt it I believe. REgardless of how many years they raise it together and regardless of the role of the non-biological parent.

My gay friend told me back when this started that it was the WRONG issue for gays to focus on -- marriage -- but I understand the sentimental reasons. However the only real justification are partner rights in terms of insurance, next of kin rights, healthcare...

:shock: So you are okay with polyagamy :shock:
You know as a guy I would be okay with it if I was selfesh and did not care about women and most of all the children of these marriages.
Please explain to me why gay marriage is okay but incest when the woman is post menapausal and the guy is of a legal age is wrong.
Please explain how allowing two gay guys to adopt children is in the best interest of the child.

I think multiple wives or multiple husbands is against human nature and unworkable personally, but there are societies that have such marriages and presumably they work. If Utah decided to allow polygamy, I would let them have the right as a state to take that decision. The issue is just what you mention -- the impact that society has to have a legal structure to account for in terms of property rights, children, alimony, etc. So I agree, it's really not an option for a state to decide on its own. Interesting that you oppose it so fiercely since they were polygamous in Biblical times : )

I doubt that gay parents are on the whole worse than many many parents and they may be quite a bit better. There are enough children who need parents that I have no issue with gay adoption. Kids of gay parents don't end up gay necessarily which is I think why you oppose it. I suspect if they are biologically heterosexual, they end up heterosexual. How many gay couples do you know?

As for incest, it's very disturbing and a red herring.

Here is a quick link and an exerpt on whats going on with a Mormon sect of polygamists in NV, UT, Texas and even in Bountyful BC! I want these bastards stoped.
What it comes down to is they are in armed compounds about like Wacko and the governments are to chicken **** to move in. I dont know if the link covers the whole story. If not do your own searches. But I have been hearing first count testimonies from former members on the media and its a sick and sad story.
http://amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=33750 The leader tops the FBI and US Marshals most wanted list.
Anybody who supports polygamy doesnt know anything about it.
Also incest is not a Red Herring. Its a slippery slope we are going down. What moral ground do you have to look down on incestual marriages but yet support gay marriage? Its moraly the same thing.

 

[Hanta Yo]

FWIW, there is a book out, titled "Under the Banner of Heaven", and I hope I have the author right - John Krakauer. I listened to the author on a talk radio program around 8:30 am one morning - 970 AM in Billings. Sounds like very interesting reading...been meaning to get the book but every time we're in Billings, too many other things to do. Daughter and I will go in ourselves next week, maybe I can pick up the book then, read it and let you know what I think...maybe you don't want to know what I think since I am pretty opinionated :wink:

It's about Mormons and their belief they should have more than 1 wife, etc etc, I won't get into gorey details until I've read it myself. :!:

 

[CattleRMe]

I was speaking more in the way that so many things that rurual people view as issues to city people just aren't. Rural people seemed more involved in others business while in the city nobody really knows anothers business.

Rural people care about their neighbors. City people don't even know their neighbors.

Is that all bad doesn't everyone have a neighbor that just annoys the heck out of them? :?

 

[Soapweed]

I was speaking more in the way that so many things that rurual people view as issues to city people just aren't. Rural people seemed more involved in others business while in the city nobody really knows anothers business.

Rural people care about their neighbors. City people don't even know their neighbors.

Is that all bad doesn't everyone have a neighbor that just annoys the heck out of them? :?

Neighbors usually tend to be mirror images of how you treat them. :wink:

 

[jigs]

you have a very good point soapweed, but it is making me nervous because I have a dope smoking thief for one neighbor who is really nice when you see him, but drives around all night and steals stuff.......hope is is the image in someone else's mirror ! :???:

 

[kolanuraven]

jigs......sounds like my sneak thief neighbor has moved out to you!!!!

Or you've got some of his kin out there!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Frankk]

you have a very good point soapweed, but it is making me nervous because I have a dope smoking thief for one neighbor who is really nice when you see him, but drives around all night and steals stuff.......hope is is the image in someone else's mirror ! :???:

How do you know he drives around stealing stuff, maybe if you reoported him the law could deal with it. I know a fella here who used to fence stuff from St. Louis he worries more than most about someone stealing off him. Maybe he knows how it works or what goes around comes around.

 

[RoperAB]

I believe you about the Mormon polygamists and have seen programs on them pushing th young boys out so get rid of competition. Ugh. Okay, I don't support a state's right to choose their marriage laws...

I am not a great fan of gay marriages, I think they are a bad idea and a distraction. I don't oppose gay partnerships and I believe that people who enter into such a partnership should have some or all of the legal rights that those who can get married do (be a beneficiary on life insurance, be next of kin, be allowed to adopt the child of their partner, share health insurance benefits). I know you think I am condoning and encouraging gay relationships with these opinions but I am simply acknowledging that there are homosexuals born into this world and they deserve human rights and the right to love another person and share their lives. I don't think homosexuality should be celebrated and elevated to a lifestyle that one should encourage but I don't think people should suffer for how they were born or wired. Leave them to their private lives. I have known gay people for many years and judge them by their behavior and contribution to society; many are good people, good citizens, good employers. Some have lifestyles I disapprove of, most do not.

If they want to have a non church union by the government and would not be allowed to adopt children I would not oppose it so much.

About the Mormon sect. They have old guys marrying underage girls against their will. They have old guys have sex with underage boys.
Plus polygamy is just not fair to the wives and children of these marriages. I cant sum this up in a few paragraphs.

 

[kolanuraven]

Frankk....you must have great " law" whereever you live. You're lucky!

Out here in the boonies for me....1 call to the sheriff takes 2hrs for them to respond....and when I told them what had happened here on the farm .....AFTER they got done laughing and joking about the " good ol boy" who had done the stealing.....said they knew he was the one all along...refused to take fingerprints and told me to make to make my shot count if he came back!