Older cows won't be crossing border this year

[HAY MAKER]

SH went nuts on us yesterday too! Bless him though, he needs it.

One thing about this group we take care of each other. That was really nice of you to bless him.

First thing I read the other day was Haymaker banning MRJ, still laughing about that one. What a group! :lol:

rancher you need to quit sneaking off like that! how did you vote in the poll ? it started out as a joke,but was surprised at the results,I guess I was'nt the only one maxine was being obnoxious to ..............good luck

 

[Tommy]

Tam...You still haven't told us where Cebull got it in his mind that Canadian beef presents a GENUINE RISK OF DEATH if it wasn't from something R-CALF had included in their briefings to him. Wasn't he to look at the evidence in front of him and make a ruling on THAT EVIDENCE. So who told him about the great risk to human health if it wasn't R-CALF?

I don't know Tam. Why don't you e-mail him and ask him that question instead of making accusations? I am not a mind reader, are you?


Tam...Tommy I was referring to the conversation we had months ago that told me all I have to know about you.

My memory isn't what it used to be Tam, please provide exactly what I said.

It says a lot about you Tam that you will make up something about a group you dislike too. ..."All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health"

 

[Tam]

Tam...You still haven't told us where Cebull got it in his mind that Canadian beef presents a GENUINE RISK OF DEATH if it wasn't from something R-CALF had included in their briefings to him. Wasn't he to look at the evidence in front of him and make a ruling on THAT EVIDENCE. So who told him about the great risk to human health if it wasn't R-CALF?

I don't know Tam. Why don't you e-mail him and ask him that question instead of making accusations? I am not a mind reader, are you?


Tam...Tommy I was referring to the conversation we had months ago that told me all I have to know about you.

My memory isn't what it used to be Tam, please provide exactly what I said.

It says a lot about you Tam that you will make up something about a group you dislike too. ..."All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health"

Tommy have you read Cebull's ruling and R-CALFs brief to his court? It doesn't take a rocket scienist to figure out where Cebull got it, most of his ruling was word for word from R-CALF Brief. :roll:

Tommy this was taken from R-calfs web site

The Complaint critizes USDA for failing to consider alternatives to the Final Rule that would mitigate adverse impacts on the U.S. cattle markets and the public, stating that USDA failed to give consumers the information needed to protect themselves against potential exposure to BSE in Canadian cattle by requiring Canadian beef to be labeled. Moreover, the USDA refuses to allow private meatpackers to voluntarily test the cattle they slaughter for BSE in order to bolster both domestic and international consumer confidence. Thus the Final Rule neither requires that Canadian beef be labeled, nor does it allow private private meatpackers to alleviate the economic and product quailty harm done by mixing BSE -prone Canadian beef with BSE -Free USA beef by allowing these private meatpackers to conduct their own tests.
The Complaint alleges it appears that "USDA has based the final Rule on considerations of relations with the governement of Canada and economic impacts of the import ban on ranchers and other in Canada," rather than on protecting the health and choices of US consumers.

Now tell us Tommy since the US beef is not BSE FREE anymore is R-CALF telling the USDA to tell consumers that they are at risk from eating BSE PRONE US beef? :x Canada and Japan and all other countries with BSE seem to fall into the risk to human health catagory does the US? OR Is the US the one and only country affected by BSE that doesn't have tainted beef that presents a genuine risk of death if eaten by US consumers? :roll:

And Tommy can you explain this if I am the one making these things up about a group I don't like.

Cattle Alert: Japanese Officials Tell R-CALF Actions Will Delay Re-opening Border

by James Wiesemeyer, Inside Washington Today Today 3/15/2005 4:34:00 PM


Cattle Alert: Japanese Officials Tell R-CALF Actions Will Delay Re-opening Border

R-CALF placed a half-page lobby-type ad in today's Washington Post, thanking the U.S. Senate for passing a resolution (52-46) that would, if it passed the House and was signed into law by President Bush (both unlikely events) do what a district court judge in Billings, Montana (Judge Richard Cebull) has already helped R-CALF accomplish: maintain the closure of the U.S.-Canadian border to live cattle under 30 months of age.

The ad urges the House of Representatives to support the resolution of disapproval "against USDA's weakening of U.S. import standards." The ad was paid for by the Ranchers Cattlemen Action Legal Fund United Stockgrowers of America (www.r-calfusa.com).It includes R-CALF friendly quotes

What the ad does not say is what some Japanese officials reportedly told R-CALF in a recent meeting with them -- that R-CALF's actions have helped delay the time that it will take Japan to resume imports of American beef. Japanese sources told me that, "R-CALF officials were perplexed when we told them they are part of the problem."

A Japanese official told me the following:

"R-CALF's actions will actually delay the re-opening of the Japanese border. Current actions by [U.S.] Senators and House members have stimulated the Japanese media and Japanese consumer associations to start an opposition campaign. This will delay the internal Japanese review process, especially the risk-communications process for consumers.

"In addition, your (R-CALF) actions are increasing [the U.S.] Congress's frustration and their elevated political pressure on Japan is only complicating the issue opening the Japanese border. Political pressure or interference is not assisting in the normalization of beef products between our two countries.

"When R-CALF points to the risk of Canadian beef, you are increasing Japanese consumers' anxiety for U.S. beef, because we believe the risk of beef from both countries is similar. And if you point to the risk of Canadian cattle, you are ignoring the function of removing SRMs (Specified Risk Materials) as the internationally accepted food safety measure and area also increasing Japanese consumers' anxiety for U.S. beef."

:shock: Imagine that :shock: R-CALF officials were :???: PERPLEXED :???: to learn they were part of the PROBLEM, and here we are all to believe when R-CALF points out the risk of our beef they are really working for the US producers. :lol2:

 

[rancher]

A Japanese official told me the following:

Tam could or would you tell us who the official was. Could be an official from Walmart for all we know. We need direct quotes listing the official names as your side always wants. This would not float for MRJ or SH, so don't try it with us. No SH, I don't have a turd in my pocket either.

 

[Tam]

A Japanese official told me the following:

Tam could or would you tell us who the official was. Could be an official from Walmart for all we know. We need direct quotes listing the official names as your side always wants. This would not float for MRJ or SH, so don't try it with us. No SH, I don't have a turd in my pocket either.

I guess you will just have to ask James Wiesemeyer from Inside Washington Today if you want to know what Japanese official it was. I didn't write the article I just posted it. And Some of You R-CALFers have done your fair share of insisting on quotes to prove but have done little in providing anything to back up your little claims :wink:

 

[rancher]

But. but. but you were the one that posted it. Should check it out on snoops.com first.

 

[Tommy]

Tam... And Some of You R-CALFers have done your fair share of insisting on quotes to prove but have done little in providing anything to back up your little claims.

Why should we when you cannot back up your claim Tam?? You have yet to provide where you got the quote you used.

..."All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health"

Nowhere in what you have posted yet does it say ALL BEEFcoming from a country affect by BSE is tainted. Those are your words to make it sound a lot worse. And you talk about putting out misinformation, you should look at yourself first.

 

[Tam]

Tam... And Some of You R-CALFers have done your fair share of insisting on quotes to prove but have done little in providing anything to back up your little claims.

Why should we when you cannot back up your claim Tam?? You have yet to provide where you got the quote you used.

..."All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health"

Nowhere in what you have posted yet does it say ALL BEEFcoming from a country affect by BSE is tainted. Those are your words to make it sound a lot worse. And you talk about putting out misinformation, you should look at yourself first.

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tommy wrote:
Tam...Tommy I'm not going to bother finding the exact quote because you and I both know that you would deny it anyway.

You know nothing about me Tam. So provide the quote it came from or like Scott says it is a lie.


I know you are a R-CALFer that claimed the R-CALFs claims of testing more cattle annually than Canada was correct. And even after I provided the numbers that proved that the US hadn't even tested the same percentage let alone the number they claimed, you argued that R-CALF was right. The numbers don't lie Tommy. I don't really care if you R-CALFers think it is a lie. As anyone that can read the court documents and press releases from and about R-CALFs claims know they have used the health risk card every chance they get to further their agenda of stopping the Canadian beef trade. Even if it wasn't the exact words from the month of Bill or Leo we all know what they did say was taken that way or Cebull would not have included the words Canadian beef presents a "GENUINE RISK OF DEATH" if imported to the US. So if you feel like a big man by calling me a liar then go ahead be the man but those that are not brainwashed by R-CALF knows what they have said and why.

I guess Tommy you can't read I said it may not have been their exact word but their word were taken that way. And not by just me :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Tam- Did you ever think that Judges can read the info in front of them- decipher it -and come to their own conclusions also...And in this case it wasn't hard for Judge Cebull to come to the conclusion he did...The evidence was and is there....

R-CALF definitely showed it had its ducks in a row- while USDA was and still is spinning circles.......

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "R-CALF definitely showed it had its ducks in a row- while USDA was and still is spinning circles......."

Yeh, that would explain why Canadian live cattle and Canadian beef are being imported into the US wouldn't it? Wow, real impressive duck rows there OT!

I've never heard "lying to the public about BSE to stop Canadian imports" referred to as "having your ducks in a row". More like watching ducks fall from the sky after another volley of facts hits the ducks.


~SH~

 

[Tommy]

Tam... guess Tommy you can't read I said it may not have been their exact word but their word were taken that way. And not by just me

I can read just fine Tam. I do not claim to be a mind read though, as you seem to do. No where in all of your posts to me have you came up with anything to back up your statement. Yet you belittle and chastise people on here for the same thing you are doing.
Tam...ALL BEEFcoming from a country affect by BSE is tainted.
Tam...it may not have been their exact word but their word were taken that way.

Now you are saying you made it up? I said that all along, you made it up to make it sound a lot worse that it actually was. And you have the gall to say R-CALF lies.

 

[Bill]

Tam... guess Tommy you can't read I said it may not have been their exact word but their word were taken that way. And not by just me

I can read just fine Tam. I do not claim to be a mind read though, as you seem to do. No where in all of your posts to me have you came up with anything to back up your statement. Yet you belittle and chastise people on here for the same thing you are doing.
Tam...ALL BEEFcoming from a country affect by BSE is tainted.
Tam...it may not have been their exact word but their word were taken that way.

Now you are saying you made it up? I said that all along, you made it up to make it sound a lot worse that it actually was. And you have the gall to say R-CALF lies.

I believe it is the Washington Post ad taken out by R-Calf that Tam is referring to. It is accessible from the R-Calf website or better yet click on this link: http://www.r-calfusa.com/BSE/MadCowWashPost_0311d.pdf

Make a few copies to hang by your desk and hand out to the consumers in your area. I doubt the poultry growers are doing the same to promote Avian Flu and harm consumer confidence.

Marketing 101.

 

[Anonymous]

Tam... guess Tommy you can't read I said it may not have been their exact word but their word were taken that way. And not by just me

I can read just fine Tam. I do not claim to be a mind read though, as you seem to do. No where in all of your posts to me have you came up with anything to back up your statement. Yet you belittle and chastise people on here for the same thing you are doing.
Tam...ALL BEEFcoming from a country affect by BSE is tainted.
Tam...it may not have been their exact word but their word were taken that way.

Now you are saying you made it up? I said that all along, you made it up to make it sound a lot worse that it actually was. And you have the gall to say R-CALF lies.

I believe it is the Washington Post ad taken out by R-Calf that Tam is referring to. It is accessible from the R-Calf website or better yet click on this link: http://www.r-calfusa.com/BSE/MadCowWashPost_0311d.pdf

Make a few copies to hang by your desk and hand out to the consumers in your area. I doubt the poultry growers are doing the same to promote Avian Flu and harm consumer confidence.

Marketing 101.

Bill- You and Tam both need to get some better gin-- that bathtub stuff you're making is causing you eyesight problems & hallucinations....NO where on that ad do I see that statement of Tam's.....

 

[Tommy]

Oldtimer...Bill- You and Tam both need to get some better gin-- that bathtub stuff you're making is causing you eyesight problems & hallucinations....NO where on that ad do I see that statement of Tam's.....

I have that ad where I can read it also, and did re-read it when Tam stated...ALL BEEFcoming from a country affect by BSE is tainted.
That statement is not there.
It was made up.

 

[Tam]

Oldtimer...Bill- You and Tam both need to get some better gin-- that bathtub stuff you're making is causing you eyesight problems & hallucinations....NO where on that ad do I see that statement of Tam's.....

I have that ad where I can read it also, and did re-read it when Tam stated...ALL BEEFcoming from a country affect by BSE is tainted.
That statement is not there.
It was made up.

Tommy do a google search and see how many hits you get where R-CALF is quoted by the MEDIA to have said something about the Health risk associated with cattle and beef coming from Canada. And is that risk just associated with Canadian beef and cattle or is it associated to any country that has the mis- fortune of not being the U.S.A.? Right from day one, R-CALF has put requirements on the USDA reguarding the resumption of beef trade with Canada but the funny thing is when BSE was found in the US they did NOT put those same requirements on the U.S. beef industry when it came to regaining your EXPORT MARKETS.

Did R-CALF request the USDA to quarantine the US cattle herd until the risk of BSE was accessed? Was the TEXAS HERD quarantined? was the ALABAMA HERD quarantined? Did they require the USDA to immediately cease all exports from the U.S.A. until the exact source of the BSE infection was definitively identified, the entire source of BSE comtamination was completely eradicated and every animal exposed to the source was identifed and destroyed? Was the last US BSE positive animal found over 7 years ago? Do you permanent mark the cattle you export to Canada? Does the US comply with all the OIE policies and is the US recognized by the OIE and their trading partners to be BSE FREE? These are just some of the things that R-CALF requested within a week of Canada finding their FIRST NATIVE CASE OF BSE.

Tommy do you know why Cebull was refered to as the hangin judge? :?

It was because R-CALF hung him out to dry when they made the statement about they didn't say there was a great risk to human health if imports of Canadian beef and cattle were to resume. Some figured he was hung out as most of his ruling was based on R-CALFs claims of risk to human health. Just maybe that was part of the reason he decided not to hear the rest of R-CALF's story.

Tommy R-CALF did make an exception to the ALL rule and that exception was the US. when Leo made this comment

"we know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don't worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef".

Does this make sence, first he is talking about the highest standards in the world so BSE isn't introduced but then goes on to say but if we do find it, we have these firewalls to protect you. Tommy are these the same firewalls that allowed the introduction of BSE into the US herd and thoses very same firewalls that R-CALF has told the media many times have loopholes in them and they are the reason the US can't import cattle as the wholly firewalls will allow the spread of imported BSE but just not Native right Tommy?

Call it what ever you want Tommy the facts are R-CALF has used the unsafe beef card against our and others countries beef and now that you have BSE every word they say about us is like one reporter put it. Like calling your twin sister ugly.

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, "Call it what ever you want Tommy the facts are R-CALF has used the unsafe beef card against our and others countries beef "

Crab at R-CALF all you want, Tam, but Canada has done the exact same thing. Where is your outrage on Canada closing the border to the EU? What about Japan? Is Canada taking their product, or are you "playing the unsafe beef card?

Crab at R-CALF all you want, but "playing the unsafe beef card" was what the USDA testified to Congress was necessary and it was policy strictly adhered to until that policy ate into Tyson and Cargill's wallets.

 

[Bill]

Simple question for you R-Bull-eeevers.

Do you see poultry producers taking out ads in one of the largest national Newspapers raising the issue of Avian Flu and creating negativity towards chicken.

Why in the heck would a producer group raising beef do it except because of short sightedness.

 

[Econ101]

Simple question for you R-Bull-eeevers.

Do you see poultry producers taking out ads in one of the largest national Newspapers raising the issue of Avian Flu and creating negativity towards chicken.

Why in the heck would a producer group raising beef do it except because of short sightedness.

Bill, they don't have to, it is all over the news already. Besides, it seems the transmission route of bse is in our control (at least policy maker's control in D.C) and avian flu is not. Do you take your wife's prescription medicine for your ailments?

The bse issue and difference in the legal system between our countries is being used politically for the benefit of the packers and to the detriment of Canadian and U.S. prouducers. Evidence of that is posted continually on this website. It is too bad you are too small minded to see that is the case so you can protect producers.

I think any cattle group that has real issues with the safety of their product that requires govt. action should speak up. The industry ignoring real health problems and allowing them to be used against producers for companies with global interests is just plain wrong. Health issues, whether it is blue tounge, bse, ecoli, or whatever, need to be handled with food safety in mind---not packer bottom lines. It is too bad you don't understand this and continue your little attacks on U.S. producers who want their markets to be there in the long run by addressing food safety issues appropriately.

If our govts. would get the economics correct behind bse, the bse could not be used as a weapon to advantage certain large companies in the market place over a more competitive model.

 

[Sandhusker]

Simple question for you R-Bull-eeevers.

Do you see poultry producers taking out ads in one of the largest national Newspapers raising the issue of Avian Flu and creating negativity towards chicken.

Why in the heck would a producer group raising beef do it except because of short sightedness.

Why the heck do some of you keep harping on damage R-CALF's comments might of done when it's all history? You don't have to speculate. How much damage was actually done?

 

[Bill]

Simple question for you R-Bull-eeevers.

Do you see poultry producers taking out ads in one of the largest national Newspapers raising the issue of Avian Flu and creating negativity towards chicken.

Why in the heck would a producer group raising beef do it except because of short sightedness.

Why the heck do some of you keep harping on damage R-CALF's comments might of done when it's all history? You don't have to speculate. How much damage was actually done?

Because it is history R-Calf and its cheerleaders on this site continue to ignore and obviously haven't learned a damn thing from. We have seen numerous posts about Canada and its NATIVE cases then the US got theirs and that song got old. Next it was feed bans and Oldtimer and others stand at the top of the hill crowing the R-Calf song about Canadian post feed ban BSE cases and guess what? The US's will soon follow.

How much damage was actually done? You tell us.