Oldtimer--Who will lead us into the future?

[Sandhusker]

Ben Roberts..........forget about this globilization theory,it's the ruination of the beef industry,as there aint a damned thing that is not bred born and raised in the good ole USA that is needed...........good luck

HAY MAKER, you just went up my ladder of respect. You are correct. I told my wife fifteen years ago, we will see the day, when our beef is not a marketable commodity in the US. I can't forget about the globilization theory, because it's not theory, it's reality. All the more reason why, we need to take back, the control of our industry.

Ben Roberts

Which is exactly why R-CALF was against CAFTA (NCBA for). It's also why R-CALF is trying to hold the USDA to their word, instead of dancing to the global packer's tune (again, NCBA for) . We're trying to stop that nonsense right now.

 

[Tam]

Well Ben-Around here-- Except for one two year period- about 99 or 2000-- you could count on your fingers the number of trucks with calves going north-- while the ones heading south would be running you off the road....

Something to think about Oldtimer on Highway 6 the trucks that are heading south and running you off the road are fuel trucks hauling crude and gas. Do you ever take notice of how many fuel trucks are on the highway head south around Glasgow or is it just the cattleliners that caught your attention? :roll:

 

[Ben Roberts]

I can't see how anyone can be against telling the US consumer the truth about where the food he eats comes from :???:

The only things that matter to the consumer are price and taste. That is where their loyalties lie, no more no less. There is too much home-raised USA beef that is not that great. Beef from branded programs is another matter entirely. If a consumer gets great quality and taste every time, then a brand name carries clout. It is programs such as these where we need to spend our efforts. There is no use touting "Beef, born and raised in the USA," because it is only commodity beef bringing commodity prices.

The problem is that most of our beef is commodity beef and will probably remain as such. It's commodity beef that pays the bills in our industry. What are we going to wish we had done when, down the road, Brazil has an open door to our markets and all the limits with other beef exporting countries have fallen away? You mention price - there's no way we can compete with price, no way. I maintain that we are going to wish we had instilled some consumer loyalty. If we don't do something now, there's no doubt we'll get eaten up by the imports that will be coming.

But Sandhusker, there is away we can compete, it's called, control of our industry. In three to five years from now if we don't, I would say it will be to late and the producers that are left will be contract growers for the multi-nationals.

Ben Roberts

 

[Sandhusker]

The only things that matter to the consumer are price and taste. That is where their loyalties lie, no more no less. There is too much home-raised USA beef that is not that great. Beef from branded programs is another matter entirely. If a consumer gets great quality and taste every time, then a brand name carries clout. It is programs such as these where we need to spend our efforts. There is no use touting "Beef, born and raised in the USA," because it is only commodity beef bringing commodity prices.

The problem is that most of our beef is commodity beef and will probably remain as such. It's commodity beef that pays the bills in our industry. What are we going to wish we had done when, down the road, Brazil has an open door to our markets and all the limits with other beef exporting countries have fallen away? You mention price - there's no way we can compete with price, no way. I maintain that we are going to wish we had instilled some consumer loyalty. If we don't do something now, there's no doubt we'll get eaten up by the imports that will be coming.

But Sandhusker, there is away we can compete, it's called, control of our industry. In three to five years from now if we don't, I would say it will be to late and the producers that are left will be contract growers for the multi-nationals.

Ben Roberts

I agree with you 10,000% on that, Ben. What do you suggest?

 

[HAY MAKER]

Ben Roberts..........forget about this globilization theory,it's the ruination of the beef industry,as there aint a damned thing that is not bred born and raised in the good ole USA that is needed...........good luck

HAY MAKER, you just went up my ladder of respect. You are correct. I told my wife fifteen years ago, we will see the day, when our beef is not a marketable commodity in the US. I can't forget about the globalization theory, because it's not theory, it's reality. All the more reason why, we need to take back, the control of our industry.

Ben Roberts

Which is exactly why R-CALF was against CAFTA (NCBA for). It's also why R-CALF is trying to hold the USDA to their word, instead of dancing to the global packer's tune (again, NCBA for) . We're trying to stop that nonsense right now.

The more people believe in globalization............the more it becomes reality,it is the ruination of one of the few things left in the country that is worth a damn..........small town America,hope I dont live long enough to see it disappear..............good luck

 

[Ben Roberts]

Ben Roberts..........forget about this globilization theory,it's the ruination of the beef industry,as there aint a damned thing that is not bred born and raised in the good ole USA that is needed...........good luck

HAY MAKER, you just went up my ladder of respect. You are correct. I told my wife fifteen years ago, we will see the day, when our beef is not a marketable commodity in the US. I can't forget about the globilization theory, because it's not theory, it's reality. All the more reason why, we need to take back, the control of our industry.

Ben Roberts

Which is exactly why R-CALF was against CAFTA (NCBA for). It's also why R-CALF is trying to hold the USDA to their word, instead of dancing to the global packer's tune (again, NCBA for) . We're trying to stop that nonsense right now.

Sandhusker, how are you trying to stop that nonsense, right now!

Sandhusker, if all the cattle producers in the USA sold their ranches today, took the money, left over after paying their debt, loaded it in a cattle pot, along with a tanker full of whiskey and a stable full of prostitutes(male and female) to Washington,D.C. you could get anything passed, but what about next year.

Ben Roberts

 

[Sandhusker]

You got a better idea? If petitioning Washington is so uneffective, why are millions spend doing so?

R-CALF went to Washington last year. If they didn't think it turned out wothwhile, do you think they would do it again?

 

[Red Robin]

Ben Roberts..........forget about this globilization theory,it's the ruination of the beef industry,as there aint a damned thing that is not bred born and raised in the good ole USA that is needed...........good luck

HAY MAKER, you just went up my ladder of respect. You are correct. I told my wife fifteen years ago, we will see the day, when our beef is not a marketable commodity in the US. I can't forget about the globilization theory, because it's not theory, it's reality. All the more reason why, we need to take back, the control of our industry.

Ben Roberts

Ben without a catastrophic triggering event of some sort, there isn't a motivation to bring about the kind of cooperation you are talking about. Do you honestly believe that in even 10 years time that cattlemen will unite to any great extent on any one issue, much less all issues? I don't .

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "If it all had to be labeled so folks knew there was foreign beef being passed off I think many would pick the US product..."

Most wouldn't have a choice, 95% would be US beef.

That's what is so stupid about this law. If you don't think 5% of the beef consumers would prefer the rare novelty product, you're out of your mind.

You should stick to drinking whiskey and let the folks that market beef, market beef. After all, you are in the cattle industry, not the beef industry according to R-CULT remember?

"M"COOL is "SYMBOLISM OVER SUBSTANCE".

Ben: "In three to five years from now if we don't, I would say it will be to late and the producers that are left will be contract growers for the multi-nationals."

I heard that same fear mongering 15 years ago and what's happened in the industry? National became USPB!

Sandcheska: "I agree with you 10,000% on that, Ben."

Of course you do because you simply don't know any better.



~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "If it all had to be labeled so folks knew there was foreign beef being passed off I think many would pick the US product..."

Most wouldn't have a choice, 95% would be US beef.

Thats false- it depends on regions... When we checked for the Montana M-COOL the source supplying most the beef for the Montana retail stores were supplying almost all Canadian beef during some periods of time.....That is what upset the Montana legislators and consumers so much.....

That's what is so stupid about this law. If you don't think 5% of the beef consumers would prefer the rare novelty product, you're out of your mind.

You should stick to drinking whiskey and let the folks that market beef, market beef. After all, you are in the cattle industry, not the beef industry according to R-CULT remember?

"M"COOL is "SYMBOLISM OVER SUBSTANCE".

If you believe telling people the truth is just symbolism and means nothing than there is not much hope left for you.....


~SH~

 

[Ben Roberts]

HAY MAKER, you just went up my ladder of respect. You are correct. I told my wife fifteen years ago, we will see the day, when our beef is not a marketable commodity in the US. I can't forget about the globalization theory, because it's not theory, it's reality. All the more reason why, we need to take back, the control of our industry.

Ben Roberts

Which is exactly why R-CALF was against CAFTA (NCBA for). It's also why R-CALF is trying to hold the USDA to their word, instead of dancing to the global packer's tune (again, NCBA for) . We're trying to stop that nonsense right now.

The more people believe in globalization............the more it becomes reality,it is the ruination of one of the few things left in the country that is worth a damn..........small town America,hope I dont live long enough to see it disappear..............good luck

Hay maker, again I agree with you. I live in a small county, eighteen hundred people in the entire county, Pomeroy is the county seat and the only town in the county with fourteen hundred and sixty people, with not even a 4-way stop sign. We raise dryland wheat, barley, a few peas with not as many cattle as we used to. We depend on the world market for our wheat. Small town America is not going to disappear on my watch, unless, I just stick my head in the sand. Let's do something about it.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Ben Roberts]

I can't see how anyone can be against telling the US consumer the truth about where the food he eats comes from :???:

The only things that matter to the consumer are price and taste. That is where their loyalties lie, no more no less. There is too much home-raised USA beef that is not that great. Beef from branded programs is another matter entirely. If a consumer gets great quality and taste every time, then a brand name carries clout. It is programs such as these where we need to spend our efforts. There is no use touting "Beef, born and raised in the USA," because it is only commodity beef bringing commodity prices.

I disagree Soap-- If it all had to be labeled so folks knew there was foreign beef being passed off I think many would pick the US product...I would....There are still a lot of folks that believe in the USA and buy USA even if they have to pay more for it-- which was shown by the lobbyist money spent on Delay and Burns etal to change the law so that the Chinese could pass off products made in the Chinese owned factories in the Muriana's with a USA label... If its not worth anything why did they fight so hard and pay so much to get the law?

Then there are the health issues with the enviromental, chemical, and pharmaceutical pollution and exposure problems and several news and OIG reports of unsanitary slaughter conditions in Mexico/Central and South America...Tie in Canada's continuing BSE problem- it makes many want to have the choice of where the food they eat comes from....

What is happening now is a FRAUD....

Oldtimer, the next time you are closed to a health food store, go in and ask for some liver extract tablets, read the back of the label and see where they source the liver from, and then tell me we have the healthest cattle in the world. We also have the largest feed-lots with the greatest amount of pollution and exposure problems. You think the US dosen't have a continuing BSE problem, well that clock is still running my friend.

Where is the FRAUD.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Ben Roberts]

Ben Roberts..........forget about this globilization theory,it's the ruination of the beef industry,as there aint a damned thing that is not bred born and raised in the good ole USA that is needed...........good luck

HAY MAKER, you just went up my ladder of respect. You are correct. I told my wife fifteen years ago, we will see the day, when our beef is not a marketable commodity in the US. I can't forget about the globilization theory, because it's not theory, it's reality. All the more reason why, we need to take back, the control of our industry.

Ben Roberts

Ben without a catastrophic triggering event of some sort, there isn't a motivation to bring about the kind of cooperation you are talking about. Do you honestly believe that in even 10 years time that cattlemen will unite to any great extent on any one issue, much less all issues? I don't .

Red Robin, I don't think a catastrophic event has to take place. Some are already doing it. Although,bankrupcy is a pretty good motivator for some.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[RobertMac]

Ben, are you beginning to see the barrier to your plan...there isn't going to be consensus on this board...much less across the USA...or North America(you left out Mexico earlier)...or globally. I agree your plan is the only direction the cattleman can take and maintain any semblance of control over his destiny...but it will happen have to happen in 'islands', not 'continents'.

The other point of question is processing...Tyson, ConAgra, Cargill, and Smithfield control somewhere over 80% of processing capacity. Producers orgs will have to have processing capacity...the problem is these packers aren't in the processing business, they are in the food business...the global food business. They aren't going to help a competitor take part of their business by custom processing for them even if there is more money in custom processing. Producers are going to have to organize around a processing plant AND A MARKET! It will have to be the high dollar markets because trying to compete with the 'Bigs' in commodity beef is suicide. The markets will have to be something the 'Bigs' can't easily compete and will have to address consumer concerns...where are the food markets going?

Ben, you know I'm 100% with you, but it is going to take a he!! of a lot more cooperation than is displayed here!

 

[Anonymous]

SH (previous): "Most wouldn't have a choice, 95% would be US beef."

OT (in response): "Thats false- it depends on regions... When we checked for the Montana M-COOL the source supplying most the beef for the Montana retail stores were supplying almost all Canadian beef during some periods of time.....That is what upset the Montana legislators and consumers so much....."

IT IS NOT FALSE OLD TIMER!!!!!

Your Montana EXCEPTIONS do not make the rule accross the United States.

It's an absolute COLD HARD FACT that MOST CONSUMERS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES would never have a choice between US beef and Foreign beef because under your stupid flawed law, only 5% of the total beef consumption in the United States would be labeled as "IMPORTED".

IF THIS LAW WAS ENFORCED EXACTLY LIKE THE SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAM, AS YOU R-CULTERS HAVE SUGGESTED, IT WOULD BE LESS THAN THAT.

You can't change the facts of your stupid law no matter how many MONTANT EXCEPTIONS to the rule you find to try to justify it.

Another feeble attempt to mislead the masses with your typical R-CULT deception.

If Montana consumers want US beef, WHY THE HELL DON'T THEY DEMAND US BEEF SO THEIR SUPPLIERS CAN BUY THEM SOURCE VERIFIED US BEEF NOW??????

SOURCE VERIFIED US BEEF IS available now OT, it doesn't require your unenforceable flawed law.

Give Mike Callicrate a call, HE SELLS "BORN, RAISED, AND PROCESSED IN THE US BEEF".

DAMN STRAIGHT "SYMBOLISM OVER SUBSTANCE"!

OT: "If you believe telling people the truth is just symbolism and means nothing than there is not much hope left for you..... "

If you believe segregating 5% of the total beef consumption as "IMPORTED" GIVING IT NOVELTY STATUS will "RESTORE PROFITABILITY TO THE CATTLE INDUSTRY" you are a bigger idiot than I ever imagined.

If you believe trusting "M"COOL enforcement to "SIGNED AFFIDAVITS" will create "TRUTH IN LABELING", AFTER YOU CLAIMED THE LARGE PACKERS ARE HIDING FOREIGN BEEF BEHIND THE USDA GRADE STAMP, you are a bigger idiot than I ever imagined.

Yes, "M"COOL as written is the classic "SYMBOLISM OVER SUBSTANCE" when it segregates 5% of the beef as a rare novelty item, adds unnecessary costs to the industry, when source beef is already available, when the vast majority of consumers aren't asking for source verified beef, when you don't want a traceback system to enforce it, and when it exempts 75% of the imported beef.....

DAMN STRAIGHT "SYMBOLISM OVER SUBSTANCE"!


~SH~

 

[Red Robin]

but it will happen have to happen in 'islands', not 'continents'.

True Robertmac. There's a small deal here that retails through a grocery store. Their processing costs them way too much money to be very profitable but the acceptance from the customers is very good. They just sell a couple each month of their own. They are doing a good job from genetics all the way to the display case but I doubt it's much more profitable than selling them as calves and using the money for some other investment.

 

[Anonymous]

~SH~-- Its a 5% lie that just keeps growing....

I guess your momma never told you how those little fibs you tell will grow into whoppers...Its quite apparent...

 

[Anonymous]

The reason to take MORE control of our industry is because nobody has more incentive to give consumers a better product than the producer does because the rest of the industry operates on a margin.

The packer pays for cattle, according to what he gets for boxed beef.
The retailer pays the processor according to what he gets for retail beef.

The retailers do not specialize in selling JUST BEEF so they don't have as much incentive to create new value added products as the producer does.

There is no greater incentive to improve your product then when you own that product from pasture to plate. The problem you are faced with is trying to process that beef as efficiently as the large packer does and find a market for every part of the carcass like they have?

The solution?

Allow processors to do what they do best by custom killing producer cattle so producers own the cattle going in and the beef coming out. The beauty of that is that only the progressive producers would work with the packers because the conspiracy theorists can't trust them. LOL! I love the irony in that.

There is nothing the packers would like more than a consistant supply of cattle and a custom kill price that guaranteed them a profit.

The solution is for the segments of our industry to work together, NOT FILE CONSPIRACY THEORY SUITS AGAINST EACHOTHER.

Who would fight this process the most? YOU GUESSED IT, THE LMA WHO DRIVES R-CULT.

"HOW MUCH YA GONNA GIVE FOR EM BOYS" (traditionalism)


~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

Ben--Who/what group do you perceive is going to/could lead this uprising against the Corporate multinational giants? Tell us how you perceive this takeback happening?

So far you've criticized R-CALF,M-COOL, and NCBA- and several of our personal ideas -- but I have saw no plans/solid ideas on how this is to be done....

You begin to sound like the current Democratic party on the Iraq war :wink:

 

[RobertMac]

but it will happen have to happen in 'islands', not 'continents'.

True Robertmac. There's a small deal here that retails through a grocery store. Their processing costs them way too much money to be very profitable but the acceptance from the customers is very good. They just sell a couple each month of their own. They are doing a good job from genetics all the way to the display case but I doubt it's much more profitable than selling them as calves and using the money for some other investment.

These producers have the chance to improve their profitability...even at low profits, who will be better off when fats go to $80...$70 ...$60!