Oldtimer--Who will lead us into the future?

[RobertMac]

The reason to take MORE control of our industry is because nobody has more incentive to give consumers a better product than the producer does because the rest of the industry operates on a margin.

The packer pays for cattle, according to what he gets for boxed beef.
The retailer pays the processor according to what he gets for retail beef.

The retailers do not specialize in selling JUST BEEF so they don't have as much incentive to create new value added products as the producer does.

There is no greater incentive to improve your product then when you own that product from pasture to plate. The problem you are faced with is trying to process that beef as efficiently as the large packer does and find a market for every part of the carcass like they have?

The solution?

Allow processors to do what they do best by custom killing producer cattle so producers own the cattle going in and the beef coming out. The beauty of that is that only the progressive producers would work with the packers because the conspiracy theorists can't trust them. LOL! I love the irony in that.

There is nothing the packers would like more than a consistant supply of cattle and a custom kill price that guaranteed them a profit.

The solution is for the segments of our industry to work together, NOT FILE CONSPIRACY THEORY SUITS AGAINST EACHOTHER.

Who would fight this process the most? YOU GUESSED IT, THE LMA WHO DRIVES R-CULT.

"HOW MUCH YA GONNA GIVE FOR EM BOYS" (traditionalism)


~SH~

The other point of question is processing...Tyson, ConAgra, Cargill, and Smithfield control somewhere over 80% of processing capacity. Producers orgs will have to have processing capacity...the problem is these packers aren't in the processing business, they are in the food business...the global food business. They aren't going to help a competitor take part of their business by custom processing for them even if there is more money in custom processing.

???????????????????????

 

[Anonymous]

RM: "They aren't going to help a competitor take part of their business by custom processing for them even if there is more money in custom processing."

You don't know that Robert Mac.

What alternative do the large processors have if producers say, "let's work out a custom processing arrangement or we'll do it ourselves"?

The leverage that the large processors have is the knowledge that blamers and forward thinkers will never work together enough to control their destiny.


~SH~

 

[RobertMac]

RM: "They aren't going to help a competitor take part of their business by custom processing for them even if there is more money in custom processing."

You don't know that Robert Mac.

What alternative do the large processors have if producers say, "let's work out a custom processing arrangement or we'll do it ourselves"?

The leverage that the large processors have is the knowledge that blamers and forward thinkers will never work together enough to control their destiny.


~SH~

The leverage that the large processors have is the knowledge that a large portion of producers have been told that the large processors are their best(only) option. Hopefully, Ben will open the eyes of producers to see what their destiny will be when the USA has a "free trade agreement" with every large cattle producing country and the same processors controlling the majority of the processing in ALL THOSE COUNTRIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "~SH~-- Its a 5% lie that just keeps growing.... "

What percentage of our US domestic beef consumption is imported beef OT?

What percentage of that imported beef makes it's way to food service OT?

I'll save you the time OT, it's 20% and 75% respectively which means 5% of our total US beef consumption labeled as "IMPORTED" under your stupid law.

You can't face the reality of your stupid law so you have to find Montana exceptions to the US rule on the percentage of imported beef that would be labeled "imported".

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Your only recourse is to create a "SANDCHESKA ILLUSION".


~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

And it continues to grow...The same as your tall tales and spin :wink: :lol: :lol:

 

[Ben Roberts]

You got a better idea? If petitioning Washington is so uneffective, why are millions spend doing so?

R-CALF went to Washington last year. If they didn't think it turned out wothwhile, do you think they would do it again?

Sandhusker, please re-read your post, then think about what you've said.

Petitioning Washington D.C. is very effective, and you are correct, there are millions spent on doing it. Who, has millions to spend? cattle producers sure don't.

Sandhusker, please remember this. If you would ask a politician, what his favorite color was, he would tell you, plaid.

And YES, I have a better idea.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Anonymous]

And YES, I have a better idea.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Which is :???:

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "And it continues to grow...The same as your tall tales and spin"

Talk is cheap Old Timer. If you could disprove the 5% figure or anything else I have stated you would but you can't. It's not what you WANT TO BELIEVE so you just discredit and repeat the R-CULT mantra with your R-CULT turbin wrapped around your head.

5% is pre bse levels of imports. That number might be even smaller now but hey, can't let the light of truth show on your flawed law can you?


~SH~

 

[Ben Roberts]

Ben, are you beginning to see the barrier to your plan...there isn't going to be consensus on this board...much less across the USA...or North America(you left out Mexico earlier)...or globally. I agree your plan is the only direction the cattleman can take and maintain any semblance of control over his destiny...but it will happen have to happen in 'islands', not 'continents'.

The other point of question is processing...Tyson, ConAgra, Cargill, and Smithfield control somewhere over 80% of processing capacity. Producers orgs will have to have processing capacity...the problem is these packers aren't in the processing business, they are in the food business...the global food business. They aren't going to help a competitor take part of their business by custom processing for them even if there is more money in custom processing. Producers are going to have to organize around a processing plant AND A MARKET! It will have to be the high dollar markets because trying to compete with the 'Bigs' in commodity beef is suicide. The markets will have to be something the 'Bigs' can't easily compete and will have to address consumer concerns...where are the food markets going?

Ben, you know I'm 100% with you, but it is going to take a he!! of a lot more cooperation than is displayed here!

Robert, I've known for years that there would be barriers. Fear and the suppression of knowledge, is all that is stopping the cattle producers, from controlling their destiny.

Scott, is correct in his post about contracting, please read Scott's post.

Thank you Robert for your support, it can be done. The cattle industry is not my industry, it's our industry.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[rkaiser]

Contrating may be an option in the USA, but I can't see it happening here in Canada. At least as long as the salmon run continues. Could'nt contract a kill with Cargill or Tyson right now, that's for darn sure. If this stupid captive market situation could come to a halt --- maybe maybe. We do have options however as our one producer owned plant is up and running and contracting even for a little biz like ours with a pot load every other week.

We have to start somewhere, and it has already started in a number of somewhere's. It would have to grow a hell of a lot more here in Canada to ever have Cargill and Tyson invite a contract.

 

[Anonymous]

And YES, I have a better idea.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Which is :???:

Rev. Ben--Am I overly suspicious or are you trying to pull a Bill O'Reilly or Jehova Witness stunt on us-- telling us you have all the anwers but then when someone asks what these answers are they get the same answer--"Its all right here in my new book which is on sale for one payment of only $21.95" :???:

 

[RobertMac]

And YES, I have a better idea.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Which is :???:

Rev. Ben--Am I overly suspicious or are you trying to pull a Bill O'Reilly or Jehova Witness stunt on us-- telling us you have all the anwers but then when someone asks what these answers are they get the same answer--"Its all right here in my new book which is on sale for one payment of only $21.95" :???:

OT, I'll let Ben explain his idea when he is ready, but it involves producers coming together, standing up and doing something to help themselves. This site has a way of throwing cold water on the idea of coming together. But what he advocates is happening today...from small producers like he and I having cattle processed and selling direct all the way to USPB...according to Randy, it's happening in Canada too. Like Randy said, "It would have to grow a hell of a lot more here in Canada[and even more in the USA] to ever have Cargill and Tyson invite a contract." It will be a tough fight and unlike Ben and Scott, I don't think the global packers will be at all helpful.

I hate to add this after your last comment,but.....reading his book would be a good start!

 

[rkaiser]

You know Oldtimer, it never hurts to be proud of your country, but you can't let that pride blur your view of reality. I am proud to be a Canadian, but I am more proud of my family and my business, and those two things need to come first. If that means I have to do business with another country - so be it.

This is one of the best threads ever here on ranchers. Read it carefully, and I hope more folks including Scott ad to it with posts like the one he penned on vertical integration aside from multinational packers.

Yes it is a tad dreamy to think that ranchers from around the world - or even here in North America could work together, but all good things start with a dream or two.

If you were to spend some time reading a book like Ben's or seeing the big picture issues with Cargill and Tyson world wide, rather than cherry picking some BS science to try to hold up a few Canadian ranchers (to the delight of Cargill and Tyson) and dreaming of Mcool solving all the problems of the American producer, maybe your mind could be changed.

I don't personally mind the Mcool thing - for patriotic reasons only. Sounds kinda cool to me, and I believe it could become a marketing tool when we punt these Multinational pirates out of our country. However it is a dream, just like the border issue dream that will never solve anything Oldtimer. Might band aid things for a bit and put an extra buck in your pocket for a cull cow from time to time, but has that been worth the puppet show we have been putting on for Cargill and Tyson?

Let's quit entertaining them Old boy. Take Ben's message to Rcalf and let's get on with the business of helping OUR youth find the peace that we have found in our pastures.

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

Excellent post in a very good thread, Randy.

 

[Ben Roberts]

Gentlemen, you humble me with your comments. And I believe we owe Ranchers.net a big round of applause, if it were not for this board, there is a good chance we would have never met.

Like Randy says"it's a little dreamy", but i'm sure everyone here has heard of the Sierra Club, they started with a dream and sixty members, today, they are over six hundred thousand strong, and look at the power and authority they have.

I will set down tonight, and explain my plan, when I have the time to do so, I still have cattle and horses to feed though now.


Best Regards
Ben Roberts


Amen- and keep those cash donations rolling in.

 

[Red Robin]

Gentlemen, you humble me with your comments. And I believe we owe Ranchers.net a big round of applause, if it were not for this board, there is a good chance we would have never met.

Like Randy says"it's a little dreamy", but i'm sure everyone here has heard of the Sierra Club, they started with a dream and sixty members, today, they are over six hundred thousand strong, and look at the power and authority they have.

I will set down tonight, and explain my plan, when I have the time to do so, I still have cattle and horses to feed though now.


Best Regards
Ben Roberts


Amen- and keep those cash donations rolling in.

I'm all ears Ben. Thanks for your time.

 

[Sandhusker]

Kaiser, "Let's quit entertaining them Old boy. Take Ben's message to Rcalf and let's get on with the business of helping OUR youth find the peace that we have found in our pastures."

If we can come up with something workable, I'll dang sure take it to R-CALF. If it is something that enhances the profitability of US producers, I guarantee I'll have an audience.

I think one of the first things will have to be done is to get the governments weaned off of the packers. Here's some hurdles I see;
1) Thanks to Judge Strom giving the packers a "get out of jail" password of "Competition", we have no PSA. We need law makers to go back to the original PSA and do the equivalent of running a virus scan to get out all the crap that has been placed there by activist judges. If we have no PSA, the packers have the guns and we have targets on our backs.
2) The USDA somehow needs to be cleaned out as well. I won't get on the topic of what they did for the big packers with the border, but look what the USDA is doing for the big packers with Creekstone. Their reasons establish a double standard, goes against established protocol, and they don't even try to come up with a believable reason! Look at the trade deals we've been getting in (and not getting in).As long as the packers have the USDA in their pocket, I'm pretty pessimistic. However, I'm not without hope that they can't be seperated.

 

[Anonymous]

Did you guys know that Northern Plains Premium Beef laid the groundwork for a concept that was picked up by USPB. The concept of USPB was derived from a group that attended the NPPB meeting in Jamestown. I was heavily involved with Northern Plains Premium Beef and I believed in the concept more than anything. In hindsight, I think USPB had the right idea in working with National instead of concrete and mortar like Future Beef did. There's huge lessons to be learned in each situation.

Ben, I hope we get a chance someday to sit down and discuss what went wrong for NPPB, what went wrong for Future Beef, and what went right for USPB. I'm familiar with the details of all three ventures and the players. I would have invested heavily in USPB had it not been for NPPB.

Do you know who sabotaged the process. You guessed it, the LMA! That's not blaming, that's simply stating a fact. The LMA knew that producers owning and controlling their destiny meant their commission dollars and socialized cattle marketing would be taken out of the equation. They went on a smear campaign like none you have ever seen. These are the same guys that are the largest proponents of R-CALF.

You bet Sandhusker, you take the concept of vertical integration to R-CALF and you let me know the reaction you get. I'll bet you anything you want to bet that Johnny Smith, Pat Goggins, and Herman Schumacher will be slamming your suggestion saying "Tyson will squish you like a bug". "We are the only true price discovery". Yada, yada, yada!

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT!

We had the opportunity to own our product from pasture to plate but the LMA wasn't having. The LMA is joined at the hip with R-CALF and they'll tell the producers that they don't need to sell beef, they only need R-CALF/LMA to fight for competition in the marketplace which is nothing more than a smokescreen to keep the producers following them and keeping those commission dollars rolling in.

When the anymosity towards NCBA developed, it was when the NCBA conducted their "strategic alliances program" which tried to talk more producers into retaining ownership. That's where all this "NCBA IS JUMPING IN BED WITH THE PACKERS" bullsh*t originated. Make absolutely no mistake about it.

Before you can get any producers to join together to take control of their destination, they have to be able to determine which leader they are going to follow and what their agenda is.

R-CALF started out as a watchdog group for fairness of trade which still is a worthy cause. Wasn't long and the LMA reps saw the popularity of R-CALF and stole the show taking their anti packer, anti retained ownership agenda with them.

The thought of R-CALF supporting anything beyond mindless traditionalism, considering who's driving that ship, is a laugh and a half.

I also think it's unforgiveable what R-CALF has said about the safety of Canadian cattle and Canadian beef. Absolutely unforgiveable. Anyone can pick up an ABS semen catalog from the 80's and see all the genetics that originated in Canada. To remove Canadian cattlemen and Canadian genetics from our pool will devalue the remaining beef because Canada's beef quality is every bit as good as our best quality cattle BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE MANY OF THEM ORIGINATED. That's an undeniable fact.

R-CULT and their eternal ignorance drove a wedge between the US and Canada based solely on their ignorance of what factors affect cattle markets and to what degree. It's insane!

When Northern Plains Premium Beef was going around the country, this venture included Canadian producers and I for one was damn glad to have the quality of their cattle in the mix. Beats the hell out of those bos indicus mongrels that Haymaker runs. Hahaha!

Anyway, each time they had an equity drive, NPPB would come up with 1/3 of their needs. The whole concept of NPPB scared the hell out of the LMA and now they're driving the R-CALF bus to make sure that this never happens again. While they give their market reports, they preach to their choir.

The biggest mistake this industry made is allowing a service provider to become it's voice so any plan producers have of controlling their financial destiny and owning their product from pasture to plate will be met with stiff LMA resistance and LMA drives R-CALF.

You go Sandhusker, you go tell R-CALF your plans to control your financial destiny and see the reaction you get from the LMA reps who are driving the R-CALF bus. You can take that to your bank!


~SH~

 

[rkaiser]

Not bad Scott, not bad at all. Did you smoke a little relaxation weed after supper. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

RK: "Not bad Scott, not bad at all. Did you smoke a little relaxation weed after supper."

Hahaha! Relaxation weed?

Nope no dope for me!

You can't imagine what it was like to see something you really believed in which could have really taken this industry into the future crumble before your very eyes because of an agenda which was contrary to this dream of many progressive producers. It was awesome to see so many cattlemen who are now divided by R-CALF working towards a common goal and excited about the future of this industry. Now they sell their cattle like they always did and follow their LMA leaders in bitching about any scapegoat they can come up with to justify lower cattle prices. It's so sad. I'll never get over that as long as I live and I guess that's why I resent R-CALF the most. It's the same guys that destroyed the dream of many forward thinking producers.

Now I don't want to claim for one second that these LMA NAYSAYERS were the only reason NPPB failed. There was lots of reasons but solutions for problems were shortcoming when you had the LMA muddying the waters. Make no mistake, the LMA is driving the R-CALF bus. Just look at who their most vocal proponents are.


~SH~