Oldtimer--Who will lead us into the future?

[rkaiser]

Talking about never forgetting and watching something horrendous Scott. This BSEconomic game that everyone with an opportunity to manipulate --- has ---- has been that nightmare for me.

I am not here on this thread tonight to cast blame either, but this travesty could be prevented from happening again by something similar to the dream that you watched disappear.

I too believe that the folks who choose Rcalf are lost souls looking for leadership---- problem is manipulators made it into those seats first. The whole patriotism thing is an easy one to use on the American public. More so than Canadians. Americans do get a bad rap most of the time from international gangstas, but it is only a few American gangsters that need to be rapped.

 

[Red Robin]

You guys are boring. I hope Ben has something better than your past troubles and past marketing opportunities to unite around or we're relegated to the markets and prices we've always had with the same market triggers and results.

 

[Ben Roberts]

A quote from Dresden James:

"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Red Robin]

A quote from Dresden James:

"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

If your quote is in response to my previous post Ben, I'm not smart enough to catch the meaning. I'm pretty slow so you need to be kind of plain. Just tell us the plan. If you're nervous about us thinking you plan foolish, I can assure you some will. Who cares. You don't have to sleep with any of us. Don't worry about it.

 

[Sandhusker]

Not bad Scott, not bad at all. Did you smoke a little relaxation weed after supper. :wink:

He could use some. I'd buy it, load the bowl, and light it for him if it would calm in down at all. Where's Murgen's bong?

 

[Anonymous]

"When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

Hahaha!

Thanks Ben!

How profound!

The well packaged web of lies......

- Captive supplies has lowered cattle prices.

- Packer concentration has lowered cattle prices.

- Consumers should have the right to know where their beef comes from as long as it doesn't burden me with traceback.

- 2004 cattle prices were due to a closed Canadian border.

- The salebarn is the only true price discovery

- IBP will squish NPPB like a bug.

- USDA doesn't care about food safety

- Canadian beef is contaminated and high risk

- Packers and retailers are making $400 per head profits off the backs of producers.

- ibp stepped out of the cash market for 8 weeks.

- ibp had contractual arrangements with the other packers.

- imports are having a greater impact on our markets than competitive meats.

- "M"COOL is as easy as the school lunch program.

- All USDA has to do is mark the imports.


And the list of lies goes on and on and on and guess who condones these lies.........you guessed it, R-CULT!



~SH~

 

[fedup2]

I can't tell you about the rest of this little story but when SH stepped on stage, this part sure seems on the mark!

"and its speaker a raving lunatic."

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :nod: :nod: :nod: Stay calm SH, have another hit! :lol:

 

[rkaiser]

perception!!!!!!!!

 

[Hereford76]

I just read this whole thread for the first time tonight and I can't really offer anything new and I can't really back up my view on R-Calf like everyone else has here but I can share with you why I am not a supporter of R-Calf out of personal experience. I can remember the first day I ever heard of R-Calf. We were loading our calves (40miles south of the Canadian border) to go to a feedlot just a short distance up into Canada and those trucks hadn't even made it back to the blacktop when a R-Calf member was trying to get us to support his cause. I had never met the guy and I don't know how he knew we had been sending our calves to Canada but I can make a pretty good guess whose idea it was to send him. I also know that my knowledge of R-Calf's existance coincided with the buillding of all those new feedlots in Southern Alberta that were buying calves south of the border. When I inquired about R-Calf and who was behind it, it didn't take me long to come to my own conclusions. All R-Calf has done for me is take away close markets for my feeder calves. Now they go down south to a feedlot in Hartwell Nebraska instead of 100 miles North of us - doesn't make much sense to me. I sure miss the slide both ways the Canadians always gave - no pencil shrink either. In fact, they let me weigh the calves without a rep even there... they took me on my word.

Someone else also touched on a subject in this thread that hit home. I have always felt that loosing the ability to take home Canadian genetics was a bad deal. I have built my purebred and commercial herd based off of Canadian Hereford genetics and since the border closed I have looked all over this country for genetics to use and have been completely discouraged. I like to AI but I don't like it that much. I am eagerly anticipating the day I can send calves back north and bring the good horned Hereford genetics home.

 

[Ben Roberts]

Organization Plan.

First of all, it would help if everyone that reads this plan, has a sheet of paper and a pencil, so you can draw a schematic of the plan, I believe it makes it quicker to understand.

(1) In the center of your paper draw a square box. This box represents the organization that I will explain, I really don't care what the name of it is, but it's a non profit organization.

(2) In the upper left hand corner, draw a line at a 45 degree angle upward. This line represents the cow/calf producers. So on this line write cow/calf producers

(3) In the center of the box draw a line straight out. This line represents the purebred breeders. Write, purebred breeders

(4) On the bottom left hand corner, draw another line at a 45 degree angle downward. This line represents the grazers and feeders. Write, grazers and feeders

(5) Now on the right hand side of the box, draw a line from the center straight out five or six inches. Then about two inches from the box draw a line straight up. This line represents, packers.The next line straight up represents, sales and on and on I believe you can see what I'm doing here.

Now, everyone on the left side of this box are members of this organization, we work together through this organization, the organization does not buy and/or sell cattle. For an example,when a cow/calf producer has calves to sell,he then contacts the organization with his calves, the organization then contacts the members that are grazers or feeders depending on the calves for sale. If a cow/calf producer needs a bull/bulls they contact the organization,and they are put in contact with the purebred breeders that are also members. Samething with grazers with cattle to sell/or feed, they are put in contact with feeders that are members.

Then when feeders have finished cattle to sell they contact their organization, and their organization contracts with a packer to slaughter/process those cattle, the organization gets back all of the meat and offal. Then the sales departments dispense of their products.

We have our own sales offices, that call on,food service, wholesale, retail, school and institutional needs.

We also have a program for cull cows/bulls.

We also, create jobs for members and family members so we can be solvant on our farms and ranches across this country.

We are in the garden/fertilizer business with bulk,baged,boxed product for wholesale, sales.

We,control our industry entirely, with our own people.

We also must work with Canada,Mexico, Brazil,Argentina and Australia cattle producers so that we are all on the same page with our organizations.

There is no greater time than now, to start our organization.
We have the consumer demanding that we bring a wholesome,healthy,nutritious product to the markets.

We can all fine tune this organization. It can be much larger than this, like i've said before,Ideas spark Ideas. Lets go.

Canadians welcome, were all in this together.

Just think about,what the benefits would be.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Ben Roberts]

A quote from Dresden James:

"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

If your quote is in response to my previous post Ben, I'm not smart enough to catch the meaning. I'm pretty slow so you need to be kind of plain. Just tell us the plan. If you're nervous about us thinking you plan foolish, I can assure you some will. Who cares. You don't have to sleep with any of us. Don't worry about it.

Red Robin, Trust me my friend, my quote was not in response of your post. I'm not nervous about anything. My wife tells me everytime I go for a speaking engagement, please honey, try not to humiliate anyone or make yourself look like a fool. I usually accomplish both.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Ben Roberts]

I'm can't tell you about the rest of this little story but when SH stepped on stage, this part sure seems on the mark!

"and its speaker a raving lunatic."

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :nod: :nod: :nod: Stay calm SH, have another hit! :lol:

fedup2, if you are saying ~sh~ is a raving lunatic, then you also must be saying that he is telling the truth.

Congratulations Scott, you are in with some pretty good company.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Ben Roberts]

I just read this whole thread for the first time tonight and I can't really offer anything new and I can't really back up my view on R-Calf like everyone else has here but I can share with you why I am not a supporter of R-Calf out of personal experience. I can remember the first day I ever heard of R-Calf. We were loading our calves (40miles south of the Canadian border) to go to a feedlot just a short distance up into Canada and those trucks hadn't even made it back to the blacktop when a R-Calf member was trying to get us to support his cause. I had never met the guy and I don't know how he knew we had been sending our calves to Canada but I can make a pretty good guess whose idea it was to send him. I also know that my knowledge of R-Calf's existance coincided with the buillding of all those new feedlots in Southern Alberta that were buying calves south of the border. When I inquired about R-Calf and who was behind it, it didn't take me long to come to my own conclusions. All R-Calf has done for me is take away close markets for my feeder calves. Now they go down south to a feedlot in Hartwell Nebraska instead of 100 miles North of us - doesn't make much sense to me. I sure miss the slide both ways the Canadians always gave - no pencil shrink either. In fact, they let me weigh the calves without a rep even there... they took me on my word.

Someone else also touched on a subject in this thread that hit home. I have always felt that loosing the ability to take home Canadian genetics was a bad deal. I have built my purebred and commercial herd based off of Canadian Hereford genetics and since the border closed I have looked all over this country for genetics to use and have been completely discouraged. I like to AI but I don't like it that much. I am eagerly anticipating the day I can send calves back north and bring the good horned Hereford genetics home.

Thank you for your post Hereford76, I always like good honest articles, do you mind if I copy it,so I can frame it and hang it on my office wall.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Sandhusker]

I just read this whole thread for the first time tonight and I can't really offer anything new and I can't really back up my view on R-Calf like everyone else has here but I can share with you why I am not a supporter of R-Calf out of personal experience. I can remember the first day I ever heard of R-Calf. We were loading our calves (40miles south of the Canadian border) to go to a feedlot just a short distance up into Canada and those trucks hadn't even made it back to the blacktop when a R-Calf member was trying to get us to support his cause. I had never met the guy and I don't know how he knew we had been sending our calves to Canada but I can make a pretty good guess whose idea it was to send him. I also know that my knowledge of R-Calf's existance coincided with the buillding of all those new feedlots in Southern Alberta that were buying calves south of the border. When I inquired about R-Calf and who was behind it, it didn't take me long to come to my own conclusions. All R-Calf has done for me is take away close markets for my feeder calves. Now they go down south to a feedlot in Hartwell Nebraska instead of 100 miles North of us - doesn't make much sense to me. I sure miss the slide both ways the Canadians always gave - no pencil shrink either. In fact, they let me weigh the calves without a rep even there... they took me on my word.

Someone else also touched on a subject in this thread that hit home. I have always felt that loosing the ability to take home Canadian genetics was a bad deal. I have built my purebred and commercial herd based off of Canadian Hereford genetics and since the border closed I have looked all over this country for genetics to use and have been completely discouraged. I like to AI but I don't like it that much. I am eagerly anticipating the day I can send calves back north and bring the good horned Hereford genetics home.

Thank you for your post Hereford76, I always like good honest articles, do you mind if I copy it,so I can frame it and hang it on my office wall.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I can provide a good honest testimony in favor of R-CALF from a number of folks. Would that go on your office wall too, Ben?

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Hereford 76 for your comments.

What's really sad is that R-CALF's efforts to stop Canadian imports will only mean that Canada will eventually absorb that same portion of our Japanese export market so we have gained nothing. That's the depth of R-CALF!

Do you remember when all the R-CALFers were taking credit for 2004 cattle prices. They didn't have much to say when the Canadian border opened and those calf prices went even higher in 2005. That's the depth of R-CALF.

It's an organization that is driven by LMA and absolutely bathed in blame and ignorance.

I'm embarrassed to say that I actually supported them at one time. I know many other producers who have dropped their membership when they stood with Consumer Federation of America, Consumers Union, and Public Citizen claiming Canadian beef was high risk and contaminated due to Canada having bse in their native herd. When we had bse in our native herd Leo McDonell said, "we have the safest beef in the world due to our firewalls". Can you imagine if anyone would have investigated the truth and found out that Canada's bse precautionary measures are stricter than ours?

Then they think "M"COOL is the salvation of the industry which will only serve to label 5% of our total US beef consumption as "imported" without a traceback system to enforce it because the "M"COOL proponents who said "consumers have a right to know where their beef comes from" also said "don't burden me with traceback".

They want the government to pick and choose who can and who cannot own cattle through the communist packer ban but I have never seen one of these hypocrites stand up at the sale barn and say, "I don't want any packer bidding on my calves".


Hereford 76,

Look no further than R-CALF and the LMA's dismal court record:

Dumping Case against Canada - LOST

Injunction against USDA to Stop Canadian imports - LOST

Injunction against USDA to stop Canadian imports at the 9th circuit court of appeals (40 judges) - LOST

Pickett vs ibp - LOST

Pickett vs ibp appealed to the 11th circuit court of appeals - LOST

Pickett vs ibp appealed to the supreme court level - REFUSED

Constitutionality of the beef checkoff (driven by the LMA reps driving R-CALF) - LOST


What more is there to know?


~SH~

 

[Red Robin]

Organization Plan.

First of all, it would help if everyone that reads this plan, has a sheet of paper and a pencil, so you can draw a schematic of the plan, I believe it makes it quicker to understand.

(1) In the center of your paper draw a square box. This box represents the organization that I will explain, I really don't care what the name of it is, but it's a non profit organization.

(2) In the upper left hand corner, draw a line at a 45 degree angle upward. This line represents the cow/calf producers. So on this line write cow/calf producers

(3) In the center of the box draw a line straight out. This line represents the purebred breeders. Write, purebred breeders

(4) On the bottom left hand corner, draw another line at a 45 degree angle downward. This line represents the grazers and feeders. Write, grazers and feeders

(5) Now on the right hand side of the box, draw a line from the center straight out five or six inches. Then about two inches from the box draw a line straight up. This line represents, packers.The next line straight up represents, sales and on and on I believe you can see what I'm doing here.

Now, everyone on the left side of this box are members of this organization, we work together through this organization, the organization does not buy and/or sell cattle. For an example,when a cow/calf producer has calves to sell,he then contacts the organization with his calves, the organization then contacts the members that are grazers or feeders depending on the calves for sale. If a cow/calf producer needs a bull/bulls they contact the organization,and they are put in contact with the purebred breeders that are also members. Samething with grazers with cattle to sell/or feed, they are put in contact with feeders that are members.

Then when feeders have finished cattle to sell they contact their organization, and their organization contracts with a packer to slaughter/process those cattle, the organization gets back all of the meat and offal. Then the sales departments dispense of their products.

We have our own sales offices, that call on,food service, wholesale, retail, school and institutional needs.

We also have a program for cull cows/bulls.

We also, create jobs for members and family members so we can be solvant on our farms and ranches across this country.

We are in the garden/fertilizer business with bulk,baged,boxed product for wholesale, sales.

We,control our industry entirely, with our own people.

We also must work with Canada,Mexico, Brazil,Argentina and Australia cattle producers so that we are all on the same page with our organizations.

There is no greater time than now, to start our organization.
We have the consumer demanding that we bring a wholesome,healthy,nutritious product to the markets.

We can all fine tune this organization. It can be much larger than this, like i've said before,Ideas spark Ideas. Lets go.

Canadians welcome, were all in this together.

Just think about,what the benefits would be.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Ben the skeleton of your plan is fine. I see nothing wrong with the outline. The devil is in the details though. I don't see anything to create more demand for the organizations produce. I don't see anything that lowers cost to the producers. How will this make us more money in the short term or long term?

 

[Anonymous]

Fed Up: "I can't tell you about the rest of this little story but when SH stepped on stage, this part sure seems on the mark!

"and its speaker a raving lunatic.""

Love the outfit Fedup!

Congratulations on running across the gym floor without wiping out this time. You're improving!


~SH~

 

[fedup2]

My schedule is a little to busy to sit here and play verbal ping-pong with you this week Ben, but if you think all raving lunatics tell the truth, maybe you should dig out your history book again. :???: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[RobertMac]

Scott, please don't turn this into a R-CALF bashing thread...let's stay on Ben's topic. Thank you!

 

[Anonymous]

Ben,

In reviewing your plan, the first problem I see is the loss of independence which is the backbone of the American cattleman.

I might find better bulls outside the organization.

I might find better grass outside the organization.

I wouldn't want my hands tied and my worst fear would be that an LMA rep would sieze the moment and try to steal this bus too to keep their "socialized cattle marketing" system in place.

I think there is great potential in streamlining genetics that both match the environment and match the market.

I also believe that there is potential in getting enough like cattle together to negotiate a custom slaughter price.

I think the most potential is in cattlemen marketing their own branded beef programs.

One of the biggest problem these ventures usually face is personal greed. WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME and they lose focus on the betterment of the entire group.

One of the biggest hurdles you would have to overcome is simply determining a type of cattle to raise that would end up with a better product to consumers.

Another area I think there is real potential is in creating specific replacement herds that produce replacement females for terminal cross herds.

I think an organization of producers can do a wonderful job of raising their own bulls and save that cost.

There is certainly potential in producers working together on various aspects of their industry but it won't be without turf battles and it won't happen without good leadership.

None of this hasn't already been thought of and already tried.


~SH~