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Oldtimer--Who will lead us into the future?

Sounds a lot similar to the old NFO plans--but again you always have some that think they can do better some other way- and you can never get a bunch of rancher/cattlemen to agree on anything....

That is what shocks me with the USDA survey--the 92% agreement on labeling and promoting and marketing born raised and slaughtered in the USA BEEF is probably the most cattlemen anywhere that ever agreed on anything.....

Then after my little talk with the NCBA fellow yesterday- I'm starting to wonder how many ranchers/feeders are all ready so tied to the Packers apron strings that they can't exist without those ties... :roll: :( :mad:
 
May have been tried but never thought of in the big picture way that Ben is presenting.

As far as finding bulls outside - maybe that bull supplier would consider coming inside if the potential for sales was as great as this thing could become.

Type or breed of cattle will be insignificant as "marketing" will find ways to sell all breeds and types. Choice ( or our AAA in Canada) product will usually lead the way in demand, but grass finished is something I don' t think our organisation could ignore, nor the Laura's lean type product which is moving along nicely.

I believe their would be room inside of this framework for personal gain (or as you call it "greed" Scott), without destroying the system from the inside.

This system could absorb a lot of the niche market groups that are struggling. And I could even see that happening without taking away their name or individuality.
 
Do you remember when all the R-CALFers were taking credit for 2004 cattle prices. They didn't have much to say when the Canadian border opened and those calf prices went even higher in 2005. That's the depth of R-CALF.
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Yes, I can remember quite a few instances that basically told te same thing - and you don't need to site all of these examples to convince me.

I don't want to see this thread turn into R-Calf bash either but I can tell you guys it is very interesting listening to you guys and the reasons why you are behind your stance on this topic

I am not a very vocal individual when it comes to political issues like all this and I usually just keep my mouth shut and listen. Besides the last time I spoke up on something I thought I knew everything about on this forum some guy from down south knew a hell of a lot more and tore me a new one. But I do believe that R-Calf is just using whatever they can get their hands on to accomplish what I have always thought was their initial goal - to stop our cattle from going north and goggins missing out on his commission.
 
SH, "What's really sad is that R-CALF's efforts to stop Canadian imports will only mean that Canada will eventually absorb that same portion of our Japanese export market so we have gained nothing. That's the depth of R-CALF!''

If that's the case, what's stopping them now? We're not sending squat to Japan. Why doesn't Canada step in there and make up the difference between what we used to send them and what we are sending them now? Show us some depth?

What you don't realize is that it's not Canada vs the US in Japan - it's Tyson/Cargill vs Tyson/Cargill. The check will be made out to the same folks regardless of origin of the beef. R-CALF knows this, you don't, but you're bashing R-CALF?
 
On the surface it sounds great, except like RR said what about the short term?

How does demand for quality beef work if 25% of the left side of the box (producers) have herds that yield poor quality beef?

How about a purebred guy that has an odd breed, let's pick on Zebus just because they are uncommon in N.America? How does he get a 'fair' price for his bulls?

As soon as he is getting 50% of what others in the organization get how does he react? Or let's talk about Angus bulls. If I were to be a member and only got 70% of what others with the same bloodlines got, how is that fair? Do I have to option to sell for more outside the group? If everyone does where do others get their genetics?

Human nature, wanting what the other guy has. The only incentive for me to join would be more money than I can get now. That means cow/calf guys will have to pay more....if they wanted to pay more they would right now.

This is interesting, but demand is still the engine of this industry.
 
Sandcheska: "If that's the case, what's stopping them now? We're not sending squat to Japan. Why doesn't Canada step in there and make up the difference between what we used to send them and what we are sending them now? Show us some depth?"
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First of all, we had bse in our herd and so did Canada and that's the only reason we are not exporting pre bse levels to Japan. If Canada didn't have bse and R-CULT was successful with their isolationist agenda of stopping Canadian imports, Canada would export to Japan what they are exporting to the US. R-CULT would gain nothing but they wouldn't be smart enough to realize it.

The depth is in the ability to see how BSE has changed the equation.


Sandcheska: "What you don't realize is that it's not Canada vs the US in Japan - it's Tyson/Cargill vs Tyson/Cargill. The check will be made out to the same folks regardless of origin of the beef. R-CALF knows this, you don't, but you're bashing R-CALF?"
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Who buys your cattle you moron? TYSON/CARGILL!


Let's get back to Ben's plan instead of injecting your isolationist stupidity into another thread and ruining it.


~SH~
 
Jason said:
On the surface it sounds great, except like RR said what about the short term?

How does demand for quality beef work if 25% of the left side of the box (producers) have herds that yield poor quality beef?

How about a purebred guy that has an odd breed, let's pick on Zebus just because they are uncommon in N.America? How does he get a 'fair' price for his bulls?

As soon as he is getting 50% of what others in the organization get how does he react? Or let's talk about Angus bulls. If I were to be a member and only got 70% of what others with the same bloodlines got, how is that fair? Do I have to option to sell for more outside the group? If everyone does where do others get their genetics

Human nature, wanting what the other guy has. The only incentive for me to join would be more money than I can get now. That means cow/calf guys will have to pay more....if they wanted to pay more they would right now.

This is interesting, but demand is still the engine of this industry.
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Jason, great to see you on this thread, you will have great input. I'm not sure about Canada, but here in the US we can only use about 70% chioce beef anyway.

Purebred producers can sell their cattle to whom ever they want to, at a price, they feel their cattle will move for. And the best purebred breeders in our organization will have a greater demand, than they do now.

Like i'v said we can all fine tune this organization, working together.

I believe that we should have strict requirements, on what type of cattle can enter our organization. Not everyone or everything is going to be able to join. What we are doing here, is building our futures.

Ben Roberts
 
Sandhusker said:
Ben Roberts said:
Hereford76 said:
I just read this whole thread for the first time tonight and I can't really offer anything new and I can't really back up my view on R-Calf like everyone else has here but I can share with you why I am not a supporter of R-Calf out of personal experience. I can remember the first day I ever heard of R-Calf. We were loading our calves (40miles south of the Canadian border) to go to a feedlot just a short distance up into Canada and those trucks hadn't even made it back to the blacktop when a R-Calf member was trying to get us to support his cause. I had never met the guy and I don't know how he knew we had been sending our calves to Canada but I can make a pretty good guess whose idea it was to send him. I also know that my knowledge of R-Calf's existance coincided with the buillding of all those new feedlots in Southern Alberta that were buying calves south of the border. When I inquired about R-Calf and who was behind it, it didn't take me long to come to my own conclusions. All R-Calf has done for me is take away close markets for my feeder calves. Now they go down south to a feedlot in Hartwell Nebraska instead of 100 miles North of us - doesn't make much sense to me. I sure miss the slide both ways the Canadians always gave - no pencil shrink either. In fact, they let me weigh the calves without a rep even there... they took me on my word.

Someone else also touched on a subject in this thread that hit home. I have always felt that loosing the ability to take home Canadian genetics was a bad deal. I have built my purebred and commercial herd based off of Canadian Hereford genetics and since the border closed I have looked all over this country for genetics to use and have been completely discouraged. I like to AI but I don't like it that much. I am eagerly anticipating the day I can send calves back north and bring the good horned Hereford genetics home.
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Thank you for your post Hereford76, I always like good honest articles, do you mind if I copy it,so I can frame it and hang it on my office wall.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
Click to expand...

I can provide a good honest testimony in favor of R-CALF from a number of folks. Would that go on your office wall too, Ben?
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Yes it would. The part I liked the best, was his thoughts about Canadian genetics.

Ben Roberts
 
Scott, we lost our independence in 1994 with the onset of NAFTA, the door just hasen't slammed shut yet. Bring some of your great ideas to this thread. We are trying to build not only our futures here, but the future of our children.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 
Ben,

For the record, prior to the bse fiasco, we had a 7 year trade surplus in the trade of cattle, beef, beef variety meats, and hides to the tune of an average $1.3 "BILLION" dollars annually.

How has NAFTA hurt the cattle industry?


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
Ben,

For the record, prior to the bse fiasco, we had a 7 year trade surplus in the trade of cattle, beef, beef variety meats, and hides to the tune of an average $1.3 "BILLION" dollars annually.

How has NAFTA hurt the cattle industry?


~SH~
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Scott, I said you lost your independence.
 
Hereford76 said:
Do you remember when all the R-CALFers were taking credit for 2004 cattle prices. They didn't have much to say when the Canadian border opened and those calf prices went even higher in 2005. That's the depth of R-CALF.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yes, I can remember quite a few instances that basically told te same thing - and you don't need to site all of these examples to convince me.

I don't want to see this thread turn into R-Calf bash either but I can tell you guys it is very interesting listening to you guys and the reasons why you are behind your stance on this topic

I am not a very vocal individual when it comes to political issues like all this and I usually just keep my mouth shut and listen. Besides the last time I spoke up on something I thought I knew everything about on this forum some guy from down south knew a hell of a lot more and tore me a new one. But I do believe that R-Calf is just using whatever they can get their hands on to accomplish what I have always thought was their initial goal - to stop our cattle from going north and goggins missing out on his commission.[/quote]


Include Johnny Smith and Herman Schmaucer in the mix and you nail why R-CALF started. Leo was just the tool they used.
 
I'm thinking a person would have to think small at first with plenty of room to grow. You're going to have to start small because of the small demographics that will be involved in the ground floor. You're only going to get the wildcats with money, which excludes the "watch-and-waiters" and the "I'll never changers" and any of the subgroups who don't have money because I can certainly tell you no banker is going to lend money to something with no track record. If we set ourselves up for success with a baby step, the ball is rolling, and that first step will be the most important. Get a couple base hits first.....
 
Sandhusker said:
I'm thinking a person would have to think small at first with plenty of room to grow. You're going to have to start small because of the small demographics that will be involved in the ground floor. You're only going to get the wildcats with money, which excludes the "watch-and-waiters" and the "I'll never changers" and any of the subgroups who don't have money because I can certainly tell you no banker is going to lend money to something with no track record. If we set ourselves up for success with a baby step, the ball is rolling, and that first step will be the most important. Get a couple base hits first.....
Click to expand...

You're correct...first secure a market and then work with a packer that can process to fit that market. One of the problems is the lack of small and medium size packers that were bought up and shut down.

Ben, you were right about Scott.
 
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
I can't see how anyone can be against telling the US consumer the truth about where the food he eats comes from :???:
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The only things that matter to the consumer are price and taste. That is where their loyalties lie, no more no less. There is too much home-raised USA beef that is not that great. Beef from branded programs is another matter entirely. If a consumer gets great quality and taste every time, then a brand name carries clout. It is programs such as these where we need to spend our efforts. There is no use touting "Beef, born and raised in the USA," because it is only commodity beef bringing commodity prices.
Click to expand...

Soapweed, you are correct. In a recent survey of consumers and future trends TASTE trumped all other factors. That is why there are more than 4,000 new food items introduced each year and only a few service the scrutiny of the consumer.

We need to capitalize on the one advantage that beef has over our competition - TASTE. We can compete on price within a finite range. We can command a growing premium and market-share if true "value" is present to teh consumer. The problem is all this unsupportable nonsense and claims made by some groups and producers will only lead us farther away from consumer wants. Point: They are cocerned about irrelevant issues that will not address the real consumer concerns which are the foundation for industry growth. That action will only serve to shrink our great industry.

Regarding country of origin labeling which I do not oppose per say; the benefit will be enhanced tracking for food safety issues that may arise. Origin labeling will not lead to increased sales of U.S beef as some adamantly suggest. Rather the opposite will prove to be true. That is already the history when imported beef sets side-by-side along U.S. beef.
 
Here's a link to CHB

http://www.herefordbeef.org/tailored.aspx

Here's a link to an even better branded beef.

http://www.ngrbulls.com/Hereford_Beef.htm


You know I had huge hopes for CHB and right now it isn't really doing anything that we thought it would do for the hereford influenced cattle. Most guys with straight hereford calves can sell them better anywhere than what the CHB buyers are placing them at. But things are going to change I believe - a couple big wigs have been canned and we got a new guy heading it up that hopefully will get it back on track. I think the director of supply for CHB had his dirty little fingers in the mix.
 

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