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Perspective, reasons you should buy regular goods

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Soapweed

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perspective

Reasons you should buy regular goods

By Jackie Avner

Article in The Denver Post, July 27, 2007
Last Updated: 07/27/2007 10:40:10 PM MDT



I don't like to buy organic food products, and avoid them at all cost. It is a principled decision reached through careful consideration of effects of organic production practices on animal welfare and the environment. I buy regular food, rather than organic, for the benefit of my family.

I care deeply about food being plentiful, affordable and safe. I grew up on a dairy farm, where my chores included caring for the calves and scrubbing the milking facilities. As a teenager, I was active in Future Farmers of America, and after college I took a job in Washington, D.C., on the Senate Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry Committee staff.

But America no longer has an agrarian economy, and now it is rare for people to have firsthand experience with agricultural production and regulation. This makes the general public highly susceptible to rumors and myths about food, and vulnerable to misleading marketing tactics designed not to improve the safety of the food supply, but to increase retail profits. Companies marketing organic products, and your local grocery chain, want you to think organic food is safer and healthier, because their profit margins are vastly higher on organic foods.

The USDA Organic label does not mean that there is any difference between organic and regular food products. Organic farms simply employ different methods of food production. For example, organic dairy farms are not permitted to administer antibiotics to their sick or injured cows, and do not give them milk-stimulating hormone supplements (also known as rbGH or rBST). The end product is exactly the same - all milk, regular and organic, is completely antibiotic-free, and all milk, regular and organic, has the same trace amounts of rbGH (since rbGH is a protein naturally present in all cows, including organic herds). Try as they may, proponents of organic foods have not been able to produce evidence that the food produced by conventional farms is anything but safe.

Do organic production practices benefit animals? Dr. Chuck Guard, professor of veterinary medicine at Cornell University, told me that it pains him that many technological advancements in animal medicine are prohibited for use on organic farms. He described how organic farms don't use drugs to control parasites, worms, infections and illness in their herds. "Drugs take away pain and suffering," he said. "Proponents of organic food production have thrown away these medical tools, and the result is unnecessary pain and suffering for the animals."

In order for milk and meat to qualify as USDA Organic, the animals must never be given antibiotics when they are sick or injured. On organic farms, animals with treatable illnesses such as infections and pneumonia are left to suffer, or given ineffective homeopathic treatments, in the hope that they will eventually get better on their own. If recovery without medication seems unlikely, a dairy cow with a simple respiratory infection will be slaughtered for its meat, or sold to a traditional farm where she can get the medicine she needs. I don't buy organic milk because this system is cruel to animals, and I know that every load of regular milk is tested for antibiotics to ensure that it is antibiotic-free.

Organic milk certainly is not fresher than regular milk. Regular milk is pasteurized and has a shelf life of about 20 days. Organic milk is ultrapasteurized, a process that is more forgiving of poor quality milk, and that increases the shelf life of milk to about 90 days. Some of the Horizon organic milk boxes I've seen at Costco have expiration dates in 2008! There is a powerful incentive for retailers to put the ultrapasteurized organic milk on the shelf just before the expiration date, so consumers will think the organic milk is as fresh as the regular milk. After all, consumers are paying twice as much for the organic product.

Do organic production practices benefit the environment? In many cases, they do the opposite. Recently, Starbucks proudly informed their customers that they would no longer be buying milk from farms that use rbGH, the supplemental hormone administered to cows to increase milk production (even though the extra hormones stay in the cow, and the resulting milk is the same). The problem with this policy is that Starbucks will now be buying milk from farms that are far less efficient at making milk. Without the use of the latest technology for making milk, many more cows must be milked to produce the same number of café lattes for Starbucks' customers. More cows being milked means more cows to feed, and therefore more land must be cultivated with fossil-fuel-burning tractors. More cows means many more tons of manure produced, and more methane, a greenhouse gas, released into the atmosphere.

I see Starbucks' policy as environmentally irresponsible. When a farmer gives a cow a shot of rbGH, the only environmental cost is the disposal of the small plastic container it came in. But the environmental benefits of using this technology are enormous.

Attention all shoppers: Safeway is adopting the same misdirected policy as Starbucks, judging from the prominent labeling of milk at my local Safeway store: "Milk from cows not treated with rBST." When I'm feeling particularly green, I drive past Safeway and shop at another grocery store in protest.

Consumers assume that organic crops are environmentally friendly. However, organic production methods are far less efficient than the modern methods used by conventional farmers, so organic farmers must consume more natural and man-made resources (such as land and fuel) to produce their crops.

Cornell Professor Guard told me about neighboring wheat farms he observed during a visit to Alberta, Canada: one organic and one conventional. The organic farm consumes six times as much diesel fuel per bushel of wheat produced.

Socially conscious consumers have a right to know that "organic" doesn't mean what it did 20 years ago. According to the Oct. 16, 2006, cover story in Business Week, when you eat Stonyfield Farms yogurt, you are often consuming dried organic milk flown all the way from New Zealand and reconstituted here in the U.S. The apple puree used to sweeten the yogurt sometimes comes from Turkey, and the strawberries from China. Importation of organic products raises troubling questions about food safety, labor standards, and the fossil fuels burned in the transportation of these foods.

Does buying organic really benefit your family? Remember, there is no real difference in the food itself. At my local Safeway store, organic milk is 85 percent more expensive, eggs 138 percent higher, yogurt 50 percent, chicken thighs 80 percent, and broccoli 20 percent. If the only organic product you buy for your family is milk, then you are spending an extra $200 on milk each year. If you buy 5-10 other organic products each week, such as fruits, vegetables, eggs, yogurt and meat, then you could easily approach $1,000 in extra food costs per year. Families would receive a more direct health benefit from spending that money on a gym membership, a treadmill, or new bikes.

When I share this information with friends who buy organic, I get one of two responses: they either stop buying it, or they continue to buy organic based on a strong gut feeling that food grown without the assistance of man- made technology has to be healthier.

I don't push it, but I wonder: Why do people apply that logic to agricultural products, but not to every other product we use in our daily lives? There are either no chemicals, or the minutest trace of chemicals in some of our foods. But other everyday products are full of chemical ingredients. Read the label on your artificial sweetener, antiperspirant, sun lotion, toothpaste, household cleaning products, soda, shampoo, and disposable diapers, for example. The medicines we administer to our children when they are sick are man-made substances. Chemicals aren't just used to make these products; they are still in these products in significant amounts. It just doesn't make sense to focus fear of technology on milk and fresh produce.

I say, bypass the expensive organic products in the grocery store. Buy the regular milk, meat and fresh produce. It is the right choice for the family, animal welfare and the environment.
 
For example, organic dairy farms are not permitted to administer antibiotics to their sick or injured cows, and do not give them milk-stimulating hormone supplements (also known as rbGH or rBST).

Can we say...propaganda?
 
RobertMac said:
For example, organic dairy farms are not permitted to administer antibiotics to their sick or injured cows, and do not give them milk-stimulating hormone supplements (also known as rbGH or rBST).

Can we say...propaganda?

Possibly "organic" could also be constured as propaganda. :? :roll:

Lots of organic mountains are made out of regular molehills.
 
Soapweed, thanks for sharing. We see the opposition to some of the more blatantant "Organics" propaganda so clearly detailed and countered with facts as in that article.

RM, is the information in the article incorrect?If so, which statements are incorrect? Other than the writers possible assumptions of "pain and suffering" of the animals under homeopathic treatment or no treatment, and maybe another such point or two, that is?

Granted, we cannot know whether or not there is a (greedy???) profit motive in Organic promoters wanting to propagandize people into buying their product over 'conventional' products. Nor can we KNOW there is greed involved in anyone else promoting the products they sale, can we?

Do you have documented information to refute her claims of no detectable differences in residues between 'organic' and conventional ag products? Of amounts of fuel required to manage weeds and pests 'organically'? Or of the questionnable sources of 'organic' products for Stoneybrook yogurt?

What do you make of the charges re. Ultra-pastuerized 'organic' milk products? That one really surprised me. I know the U.P. 'conventionally produced' cream keeps for a very long time. That serves me well, living far from large grocery stores. But why would producers touting 'natural, local, etc. use it? And in such a devious way, IF the writer is correct in that allegation (of 'organic' promoters holding it off the market till a short time from expiration, implying to consumers that it is VERY fresh!!!)???

My belief is that some 'organic' products MAY taste better, at least if grown on a small scale, because home grown gardens (when they do well!!!) seem to produce the best tasting veggies. They could legitimately market on that 'good taste' premise, and possibly on giving consumers a choice in how their food is produced,IMO, but leave out the fraudulent claims of health and environmental benefit. Unless and until they are DOCUMENTED to be factual, what are they, truthfully, but a fraudulent marketing ploy????

mrj

MRJ
 
mrj said:
RM, is the information in the article incorrect?If so, which statements are incorrect? Other than the writers possible assumptions of "pain and suffering" of the animals under homeopathic treatment or no treatment, and maybe another such point or two, that is?

As a matter of fact, the statement that RM cut and pasted was pure crap.

Organic production in no way, shape, OR form recommends alllowing an animal to suffer. Quite the opposite in fact. Organic guidelines recommend treating animals as you normally would, but then you must pull that animal from your organic line. Only irresponsible operators will allow an animal to suffer. Quite frankly, I question the intelligence and knowledge of the person writing the article and supposed "expert". A sick dairy animal will be pulled off the line immediately and allowed to dry up and recover. Then she'll be sold. This doesn't happen in a standard dairy. That cow will be drugged and kept milking until she recovers, then she'll be put back into production. Whats more cruel? Allowing the animal to rest and recover, or just keep on pounding milk out of her while poking her full of needles?

His statement about organic farms is also way off the mark. Organic farms may experience an initial hard yield hit when making the swap over to organic production, however that usually only lasts 3 or 4 years. After that, if a proper rotation is utilized, yields approach conventional farms. As for the extra diesel fuel, also horseshit. He doesn't even bother to mention the atmospheric contamination from the creation of sprays and fertilizers. Just one of those plants spews more garbage into our atmosphere and cosumes more diesel than thousands of tractors.

Also, his remarks about the food being identical is crap. Those injections of hormones in standard dairies do indeed show up in the milk. I've seen dozens of studies that show higher than normal occurence of hormones in milk versus organic production.

Quite frankly, I agree with RM and take it even further: the whole article is crap.

Rod
 
It's funny how those of us who choose a more natural approach to raising livestock are warned by industry leadership to stay away from running down the conventional agricultural system. But it looks like MRJ and maybe even old Soapweed would like to have this piece of crap article made into a handout at NCBA or even maybe our CCA annual meeting.

Thanks Rod, for pointing out just a few of the complete and utter lies in this BS article.

I did find one truth and I quote "But America no longer has an agrarian economy, and now it is rare for people to have firsthand experience with agricultural production and regulation."

As usual - the same can be said for Canada. But does this point support the aggression of the article or does it talk of the concern we need to have for conventional production. I personally choose not to follow organic guidelines as I truly believe the statement. I think that even old MRJ or Soapweed can understand his cattle more than some regulator sitting in an office. If Soapy chooses to use chemicals and hormones - well - we all need competition.

However - back to the hand slapping that I would receive if I were to publish a piece of crap like this thread was led off with.

Last time I was warned by our ABP chairman to keep my promotion positive, I asked him if he knew what a liver was for. And I will ask you MRJ, and Soapy, the same question. Now then - do you realise that close to 90% of these funny little organs are discarded as waste when our grain fed animals are harvested. Yes soapy - they have a similar job as your liver or mine. They are there to clean our systems, to keep us healthy and guess what - to regulate hormones in the body of the animal the reside in. Regulate hormones you say - gee whiz - might need a couple of them in each animal rather than one destroyed one if we keep pumping more hormonal growth promotants in these "healthy happy beasts" :roll:

I would also like to ask Soapy and MRJ if they have ever heard of CLA or some of the precursor fatty acids that are only produced and available naturally to humans via the consumption of ruminant animals. Okay - I will admit that even an organic guy can pump barley into his beasts and throw off the potential CLA benefits. But once you realise that you are potentially harming the future of your own industry, do you not -as rancher - feel compelled to try to stop that negative change. Or have we all become too much like Cargill and the gang - hell bent on a fast buck. There are ways to keep the good trans fatty acids in beef under a grain fed regime - but does anyone in the conventional camp give a rats ass if we follow up on those ideas?

Feel proud of the writer all you like Soapweed, or MRJ, and then go and raise some more cattle with guidelines in place from those who your author even admits are out to lunch.

I'll be looking for the article as a testimonial on the NCBA web site - followed by our puppet CCA website - as an offensive move against those who would take away your very right to survive. :wink:
 
I have been following a mostly organic type of ag for 4 years now. The article posted isn't entirely false or true.

Yields are definately not the same. It takes more land to grow the same amount, about 25-40% in my estimation. That could change as chemical resistance gets to be a bigger problem.

Weed pressures are very difficult to deal with, with no chemical.

My land is in better shape however, and I think a reasonable approach to a limited use of chemical with many organic techniques will make for the best of both.

As for cattle livers, I have seen livers from organically raised cattle condemned at a similar rate as when I was using conventional methods.

10 pounds of barley to finish isn't excessive, but the livers were shot.
 
Jason
10 pounds of barley to finish isn't excessive, but the livers were shot.

So what do you think is causing the livers to blow Jason? Or do you think that all cattle livers should simply be seen as garbage and not be looked at as an essential organ to a healthy animal. Could it be silage Jason? Don't see much ensiled forage in the wild.

Nice to hear about your approach Jason, going commando is tough . It takes time to build soil nutrients again and to allow plants to adapt to an environmnet that has been adjusted for years.
 
rkaiser said:
Jason
10 pounds of barley to finish isn't excessive, but the livers were shot.

So what do you think is causing the livers to blow Jason? Or do you think that all cattle livers should simply be seen as garbage and not be looked at as an essential organ to a healthy animal. Could it be silage Jason? Don't see much ensiled forage in the wild.

I too wonder what causes all this liver damage you hear of-- I've butchered 100's of steers/heifers for home use over the years- and can only remember 1 or 2 that had a bad liver...The one I butchered the other day didn't have a bad spot one on him....And he's been on all the barley/corn mix he could eat for over a month....

And I pour the grain (barley, corn, oats- whatever mixture I have or can get cheapest) to them heavy-- and usually fatten them to where they are near choice gradeable.....(I like fat beef and well marbled beef)...
 
I can't believe I'm going to devulge this but, Sometimes I do buy a chicken for supper and I honestly can not stand the regular tyson type chicken. It's gross. So I buy I think it's called Smart Chicken. No antibodies. Not fed any animal product. Vegtable grain fed. And no added water. It's air chilled. And that is a pretty good chicken, IF you have to eat a chicken............ Okay confession is over..........

Now all I can say is that we sold fats for 96.00 (Drug free). I guess someone wants them.........
 
Liver abcesses are usually caused from rumen acidosis. Grain overload.

There are several inexpensive ways to curb it, but it takes intensive management.

Some calves just can't produce enough saliva to neutralize the acid.

Feeding more roughage/hay in the diet is the easy answer.
 
Mike said:
Liver abcesses are usually caused from rumen acidosis. Grain overload.

There are several inexpensive ways to curb it, but it takes intensive management.

Some calves just can't produce enough saliva to neutralize the acid.

Feeding more roughage/hay in the diet is the easy answer.

Maybe thats where I'm lucking out-- because I also give them free access to grass/alfalfa hay-- which it seems like they are eating little of when on full feed grain.......
 
You got it Mike. We do use silage in our finishing ration and never go much about 65% grain. Lots of good livers out of our cattle as well. However, I think we can make it even better with some dry hay like grouchy old Oldtimer feeds his fat steak steers. Don't worry grouchy - I like em that way myself, but sure want to find better ways to keep the beast healthy until he gets where I want him.

Maybe something for all of us to think about rather than fighting over borders etc.

"Making it better".

It sure as hell will have to start with us folks. No interest in anything but profit at the next level up the chain.

Ask some of those chicken ranchers if they would eat chickens from their barns Katrina - I think you would find most would prefer to buy where you do.

Hogs are getting about the same. Ever fry up some back bacon lately. I like the stuff, but have to open the door and leave the room until the smell of pig **** leaves the air. Guess it's just ingrained in the hide after that hog sits in a **** hole barn his whole blinkin life.

But hey MRJ and Soapy, thems is jist my opinions. I can't prove a thang.
 
I can't speak for all organic production, but I can speak for mine. Some of what Jackie Avner writes about is true, although organic is much much more than no antibiotics in milk. True every load of milk is tested, commodity milk, has a exceptable level of antibiotic tolerance, organic allows no antibiotics.

In 1993 the USDA took control of organic food production, when they wrote the, standards for all organic production, now fourteen years later you can clearly see the direction organic is going. Our farm is certifed by WSDA (Washington State Department of Agriculture) they follow the USDA guidlines for regulating organic production in our state.

Commodity farming wasn't working for me, on the scale that I farm, I had to get bigger or get out and I didn't want to do either one. After generations of conventional farming, I could see the damages that had been done to our land, and I wanted to change that. Organic food production is the direction I went, although I met with some opposition from other farmers in the beginning, our farm is alive again, the soil structure is now unbelievable, your farming practices have to change to manage the weeds, it can be done.

The benefits of organic food production for me, have been many. Not only in the savings of the additional cost that go along with commodity food production, but now, i'm in control of my future. I raise my own grain, grind my own feed and feed my own livestock, and have a WSDA state inspected processing facility, and do my own processing.

NOW, the true benefits are coming from the consumers, a percentage of my customers are cancer survivors and their doctors have told them to find a organic protein source, another group of new customers are young nursing mothers that don't want to expose their children to the problems that are arising from commodity agriculture.

You can either wholesale or direct market your production. The consumer of today wants to feed her family, food produced by people she can trust, be it organic or not.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 
rkaiser said:
Jason
10 pounds of barley to finish isn't excessive, but the livers were shot.

So what do you think is causing the livers to blow Jason? Or do you think that all cattle livers should simply be seen as garbage and not be looked at as an essential organ to a healthy animal. Could it be silage Jason? Don't see much ensiled forage in the wild.

Nice to hear about your approach Jason, going commando is tough . It takes time to build soil nutrients again and to allow plants to adapt to an environmnet that has been adjusted for years.
When geese are force fed carbohydrates to develop a fatty infiltrated liver, the liver is sold as a delicasy in the form of pate de fois gras. A similar physiological change occurs in cattle on high levels of carbohydrates, but as the fatty liver cannot be distinguished from 'cloudy swelling' which is a symptom of pyrexia, without a laboritory test for toxins, bacteria viruses and protozoa, all fatty infiltrated livers are routinely condemned, 99% are perfectly safe.
 
This is information to me andybob. In fact I am impressed. 99% of discarded livers are just fine. Most reasoning behind discarded livers has been abscesses and not this cloudy swelling that you speak of. Could you direct me to more information on your story. I am not looking to dig up garbage on the conventional industry - just wanting to know if my opinion about discarded livers is wrong and why.
 
Got that bull by the horns Katrina. Working with a government research facility to investigate diet effects on CLA and other transfatty acids and will certaily be looking at and testing livers as we harvest. And so far - no hint of help from our industry leadership.
 
Jason said:
Yields are definately not the same. It takes more land to grow the same amount, about 25-40% in my estimation. That could change as chemical resistance gets to be a bigger problem.

Weed pressures are very difficult to deal with, with no chemical.

If an organic guy is taking 25 - 40% yield hits, then either he's doing something wrong or his land isn't suited for organic production. My guess is the former. I look at the successful organic guys in my area, and they're yanking yields off equal to the conventional guys and some years better than, all with reduced input costs.

The biggest issue facing organic producers is the number of hillbillies who one day can't afford their fertilizer or spray and decide "well golly gee willikers, guess I'll be an organic farmer, hyuk". They don't bother doing any research on the topic to discover the best ways of converting conventional land back to organic, then they wonder why their fields are littered with nothing but weeds, they're pulling 10 bu/acre crops off and their hay fields look like the who's who of obnoxious North American weeds.

Not saying that my father or I necessarily know how to organic farm with the best of them, but we manage to pull 80 and 100 bu/acre organic crops off our land that was only yielding 70 bu/acre when farmed conventionally. My organic hay land this year is yielding 2.5 and 3 ton/acre where my (and my nighbors) conventionally farmed stuff is only packing 1.5 tons.

Yield reductions my ass.

Rod
 
Early seeded barley high inputs 50 bushels this year. Late seeded moderate inputs next to nothing.

My organic early seeded I hope to do 30, I will know better by next week.

Dry areas like this are not as easy to switch to organic as high moisture areas, higher moisture supports soil microbes far easier than dry soils do.

When organic processes are close to $60 per acre and conventional are similar, not many will pay for the whole organic system.

If it was easy to obtain yields organically that rival conventional, it would be more common for everyone to be organic.

Economics dictate what can and are done. I switched because conventional needs the best of equipment to make it work, on my acres I can't justify the best equipment.
 

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