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pretty discouraging

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Hereford76

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American Prairie group bought up the south ranch over by malta/glasgow. 150,000 acres. heard on the radio the family said something to the effect that the increase in state and federal grazing fees made the operation unfeasible?

http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...cle_e82dba05-97ef-53b2-92c7-a4beb0562a6c.html

charlie's rolling over in his grave... but looks like BS might actually get his wish to have the buffalo walking over his grave.
 
i can't believe the state is going along with this. isn't there some kind of law against this. and how much do we spend or how much business does the state cattle industry lose with bangs. maybe all the state livestock associations need to start a fund to put up counter offers for these places to keep cattle on them and communities alive.
 
I went to the site. There was a very interesting series of comments after the article. Quite a variety of opinions.
 
After reading the accounts linked above, I had to wonder what is safe from "outside" interests.

So much that I don't know about the situation.

Having said that, it then struck me that the ranch grew to its present size by the owner buying up the smaller landowners within a certain area. Were they all happy to sell out? Or were they - like Page - pushed by the original owners of Page Whitham Land & Cattle into a corner from which there was no escape?

If so, what comes 'round, goes 'round?

So many questions.
 
This is interesting, and a sad effect of modernist ideas on how land should be used.

It seems pretty apparent after reading much of the linked material, that this is a ranch family that wants very badly to keep on ranching!

And to keep their hired help, which I find admirable. They are going into an unkown future after onlly 12 years which will fly by very fast for them.

I was a little surprised at how much they had to pay for that "cheap" government lease, at a little under $24.00 per cow/calf unit per month. I believe that in those situations, the rancher, NOT the landowner pays for fencing and water development and distribution.

It is interesting that the original idea behind such government leases was to assure that the ranchers who developed the area communities and built small ranches would not be forced out of business by limited grazing land access. Apparently, back then, even government officials knew where food came from!!!

Burnt, it is disappointing to read that you, like too many others, seem to be quite certain that big land owners got that way by squeezing out smaller ones. Why do you believe that, and also seem gleeful that some, probably this one, is suffering for their 'sin'?

It seems to me the virtual cult of teachin the public that greed is the only reason for "big" farms, ranches, businesses, or whatever the 'target' may be. Goverment leaders at all levels,politicians, popular media stars and reporters, some churches, certainly our schools, all are guilty of seeding envy of those with more, whether money, or any other 'good'.

The story of at least one early settler I know of gives the lie to the "greed breeds acquisition by 'pressure' on the 'little guy'.

A rancher, through his own hard work, later enhanced by family and hired "FRIENDS", thrift and wise decisions accumulated a fairly large ranch. Homesteading began. He feared for those homesteaders, believing that the premise that anyone could make a living in western SD on that amount of land by farming or ranching was in error. That those people were simply being set up for failure by the government and the land salesmen and railroads who painted glowing futures with claims of "the rains will follow the plow". He finally did homestead his 'settlers ranch site' after friends insisted that someone else would take that land and he would be out all the hard work of building his log cabin and horse barn.

His fears soon became reality, and while he helped many homesteading neighbors, when they did decide to leave, several of them begged him to buy their land so it would be cared for......and he did. And paid fair prices allowing them to start a new life elsewhere, if they chose.

His practice from the first days in the area was to encourage others to settle there and help to build a community......and many did and are friends and neighbors many generations later.

Most certainly, he was not the only one.

Nor have all the 'little outfits' been free of any 'greed' in how they operated and lived!

Guess I got on a soapbox a little here, but I know too many wonderful people who have suffered accusations such as that, and who truly were/are the "good ones".

mrj
 
I didn't see where Burnt accused anyone of anything, only that he didn't know the whole story. I tend agree, we often don't know the whole story so making an off the cuff judgement can be a mistake.
 
Yes, you certainly did get on a soapbox, didn't you!

Do not go putting words into my mouth, or profess to be able to read my mind.

If you see evidence of "glee" in my post, please point it out for all to see. And where did I even insinuate that he was "squeezing" anyone out? Maybe you know more about the situation than I, and that's what led to your word choice?

Your words could be seen as a reaction to something that is bothering you, something that was aroused by this situation.

I merely stated that the same dynamics are at work all through time and we never know when we are going to be the next ones to feel the effects thereof.

If you have a problem with that then go ahead and fight against the laws of nature. But do not try to make me your whipping boy because of things that none of us can control. Doing so says more about you than it says about me.
 
I'm wondering b/c there's a big operation out in extreme W KS that a Whitham family owns, and the patriarch of that outfit was killed in the early 90s I believe when his private plane (jet is what the story I was told said) went down on his way to his ranch up north. That's just the story I was told, and was wondering if it's the same family.
 
pknoeber said:
I'm wondering b/c there's a big operation out in extreme W KS that a Whitham family owns, and the patriarch of that outfit was killed in the early 90s I believe when his private plane (jet is what the story I was told said) went down on his way to his ranch up north. That's just the story I was told, and was wondering if it's the same family.

Same outfit thats tied into this Page ranch - they send their cattle to finish from their feedlots up here to their ones in Leota Ks....

This outfit has a long history thruout MT of trading acreage and ranches with the government (BLM, Fish & Game, State- and playing the conservation easements)-- and this purchase has been in the rumor mill for months...The "South Ranch" is 10% deeded and 90% Public Land (Federal and State).They've done entire swaps with the government/and conservation folks before...Over the years their holding have included large ranchs south of the Missouri River near Winnet and one down by Miles City- besides this one...

I believe this land joins up to much of the land the Prairie group has already purchased in neighboring Philllips County...They have made offers to the much larger Wittmayer Grazing Assn- which is made up of 20-25 individual ranchers- which so far has turned them down- altho some members are in favor of selling- and as one member told me- they will be back time and again with more money- and eventually the folks will sell...That would bring their holdings to within about 10 miles of the Milk River and the town of Glasgow...

There are already more rumors flying around of another major purchase and/or conservation easement sell out happening in south Phillips County...

With ties to groups like the WWF (World Wildlife Fund) they have been getting support and raising unlimited amounts of funds not only nationally but internationally - and paying more than what the Ag producer could and make it pencil out...
If you haven't yet seen the documentary "American Serenghetti" that is played often on the Discovery, Learning, and National Geographic Channels- watch it if you get a chance... Besides being a promotion propoganda piece - It lays out much of the plan..
 
The Whithams in W Kansas did own land in MT. In fact they have their hand in about everything. Yes The one Whitham was killed in the leerjet crash it was piloted by a Palen that was related to the cartoonist Palen. I'll just bet it is the same ones. Makes you wonder though if it was sold to disolve a partnership.
 
Could someone help me understand what exactly they sold?

I don't know how leasing gov't land for grazing works, but from the article and from what OT wrote, I take it the ranch actually owned about 15,000 acres and leased the rest. So, did they sell out the 15,000 acres? Can you sell a lease? It also seems that the ranch is still going to lease the ground, so what did they lose?

I'm just trying to get a grip on what is actually going on.
 
Zilly said:
Could someone help me understand what exactly they sold?

I don't know how leasing gov't land for grazing works, but from the article and from what OT wrote, I take it the ranch actually owned about 15,000 acres and leased the rest. So, did they sell out the 15,000 acres? Can you sell a lease? It also seems that the ranch is still going to lease the ground, so what did they lose?

I'm just trying to get a grip on what is actually going on.
you have to sell base property or cows when selling a lease
 
How long do these lease's go for. Every ranch of decent size for sale always list the lease acres with the deaded acres. They never say how long the lease's are for though.
 
Yep the map I saw years ago is going into affect. It stretched from the CM Preserve to Ft Benton to Big Sandy to Lewistown following the Missouri River. The area would be around 3 times larger then YNP. It would include our property.

state trust fund land leases are for 10 years.
 
I Luv Herfrds said:
Yep the map I saw years ago is going into affect. It stretched from the CM Preserve to Ft Benton to Big Sandy to Lewistown following the Missouri River. The area would be around 3 times larger then YNP. It would include our property.

state trust fund land leases are for 10 years.

Seems to me they called that area "the buffalo commons". Is that right?
When we moved to SW Montana in 1975, we were told the greenies
wanted a national park from Yellowstone to Glacier. We laughed cuz we
thought that was pretty far-fetched. Well, it isn't funny now.
 
All you need to do is buy some of what they want and don't sell it. It's free enterprize at work weather you agree with them or not. Here if you find 640 to a 1000 acres in one piece you've got a big place.
 

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