Tommy
Well-known member
Correct me if I am wrong, but the NCBA is also against Mandatory ID.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
R-Calf Convention
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
Help Support Ranchers.net:
I think ocm is probably the R-Calf expert at the moment Sandhusker. He/She seems to be the only one of the 18000 members that was actually at the convention and also is commenting on this site.Sandhusker said:Bill said:What is the US proposed system and why does R-Calf oppose any Natioanl program?ocm said:It looks to me like you are the negative one. I pointed out before that there was a guy from USDA there as well. Yet you are the one who focused on the negative. Also on the panel was Neil Hammerschmidt USDA-APHIS Veterinary Services NAIS Coordinator.
As for Canada's ID program, does it require all movements of cattle to be recorded in a database like Australia's and the US proposed system, or is it just a permanent tag?
R-CALF is not opposed to any national program. I would say they are highly skeptical, however. R-CALF's position is they can't sign on to the proposed program because there are so many unanswered questions that need to be addressed. Nobody knows how much it will cost, who will run it, or why we even need it. There's just too much up in the air yet to even know what it is to be for or against.
ocm: Some resolutions on animal ID were passed. (they still have to go to the membership for vote) Essentially the resolutions focused on state run programs co-ordinated with brand programs. Opposition to any national program, either government or private.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Whatever, Bill. R-CALF has had the same position for a while now. Bill Bullard was on Agri-Talk just last week saying what I just shared, which was nothing new.
It is the concentration of knowledge and power that becomes a problem when the "the wrong crowd" can abuse that knowledge and power. Always better to keep it close to the people, not the guys on top of the pyramid.
Was Bullard at the convention? I think your out of the loop Sandhusker. When someone who was actually at the convention says that R-Calf opposes any national MID program, I would tend to believe them.Sandhusker said:Whatever, Bill. R-CALF has had the same position for a while now. Bill Bullard was on Agri-Talk just last week saying what I just shared, which was nothing new.
Is there not due and democratic process within R-Calf or is that why there weren't many at the convention?
Bill said:I think ocm is probably the R-Calf expert at the moment Sandhusker. He/She seems to be the only one of the 18000 members that was actually at the convention and also is commenting on this site.Sandhusker said:Bill said:What is the US proposed system and why does R-Calf oppose any Natioanl program?
R-CALF is not opposed to any national program. I would say they are highly skeptical, however. R-CALF's position is they can't sign on to the proposed program because there are so many unanswered questions that need to be addressed. Nobody knows how much it will cost, who will run it, or why we even need it. There's just too much up in the air yet to even know what it is to be for or against.
ocm: Some resolutions on animal ID were passed. (they still have to go to the membership for vote) Essentially the resolutions focused on state run programs co-ordinated with brand programs. Opposition to any national program, either government or private.
Now that I am trying to remember the resolution that passed at convention on animal ID, I think it said opposed to any national database, government or private. The general consensus seemed to be (though there were those who would not agree 100%) that states should handle the programs exclusively, but there was some allowance for national standards. I wish I could remember the exact wording--it will be sent to the membership soon for a vote at any rate. I do remember that I wasn't thrilled with the exact final wording, but it addressed most of the major issues that concerned me. I thought the first proposed resolution had much to be desired and was ready to offer an amendment, but someone else beat me to it and the worst parts were changed.
I also thought that there was a tad bit of vagueness in the final draft. It leaves a little wiggle room for different opinions on some details.
Bill said:Was Bullard at the convention? I think your out of the loop Sandhusker. When someone who was actually at the convention says that R-Calf opposes any national MID program, I would tend to believe them.Sandhusker said:Whatever, Bill. R-CALF has had the same position for a while now. Bill Bullard was on Agri-Talk just last week saying what I just shared, which was nothing new.
Is there not due and democratic process within R-Calf or is that why there weren't many at the convention?
Cut Sandhusker a little slack. He and I do not agree 100% on the animal ID issue. R-CALF members think for themselves. I think the resolution that came out on ID would fall somewhere between his position and mine and is probably something we could both live with.
Favoring or opposing a national ID program are not terms that really mean anything until you start talking details.
NCBA's position has been that they want a single national database in private hands. R-CALF clearly opposes this. The NAIS guy at the convention basically said that the idea of a single national database (for cattle) is dead-either in private or government hands. Good.
I also observed that the degree of opposition to national involvement that an individual had was directly related to whether they lived in a brand state or not.
PS, sure Bullard was there. As a hired staff person he did not participate in any policy making debate or decisions. He lives by what the membership votes on for resolutions. He did participate in one panel presentation --BSE.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
What's wrong with a single national data base? We are heading that way for multi species. Ours works so good others want to be included.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:What's wrong with a single national data base? We are heading that way for multi species. Ours works so good others want to be included.
But you already live in a socialized nation where government sleeps with you daily and you're used to it :wink: :lol: :lol: ........
We're trying to keep at least the appearance of still having independence..Remember our country was built around the idea of states rights and the state being the center of government.....
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Big Muddy rancher said:What's wrong with a single national data base? We are heading that way for multi species. Ours works so good others want to be included.
But you already live in a socialized nation where government sleeps with you daily and you're used to it :wink: :lol: :lol: ........
We're trying to keep at least the appearance of still having independence..Remember our country was built around the idea of states rights and the state being the center of government.....
Independant states. That's why you can't even get truucking laws to match up from state to state. Remember this ID in Canada was industry driven. Carl Block took alot of abuse promoting this idea. To bad he died before he saw what it did for us during BSE. We told government what we wanted and neede. they di provide funding but let industry make the rules.
Big Muddy rancher said:Oldtimer said:Big Muddy rancher said:What's wrong with a single national data base? We are heading that way for multi species. Ours works so good others want to be included.
But you already live in a socialized nation where government sleeps with you daily and you're used to it :wink: :lol: :lol: ........
We're trying to keep at least the appearance of still having independence..Remember our country was built around the idea of states rights and the state being the center of government.....
Independant states. That's why you can't even get truucking laws to match up from state to state. Remember this ID in Canada was industry driven. Carl Block took alot of abuse promoting this idea. To bad he died before he saw what it did for us during BSE. We told government what we wanted and neede. they di provide funding but let industry make the rules.
Australia is trying a single national database with RFID tags. This is where the NCBA wanted us to go. It is a disaster in Australia. Canada's sytem is not like that. Why would R-CALF invite someone from Canada to discuss a system that is different from the one some are trying to push on us here. Australia is the model they are following so that's what we need to compare it to.
Texas has passed some animal ID laws. There is a near rebellion there as I understand it. It has already helped R-CALF membership and I've heard that one of the major cattle groups down there is not happy--not an R-CALF affiliate.
A
Anonymous
Guest
There you go Big Muddy...You found Haymaker- he's leading a rebellion..
And here I thought he was maybe having fun down there on the border fighting the current invasion of the Mexican Army and their drug smuggler buddies.... :wink: :lol:
And here I thought he was maybe having fun down there on the border fighting the current invasion of the Mexican Army and their drug smuggler buddies.... :wink: :lol:
Socialism and protectionism can be quite common bedfellows. I get a real kick out of protectionists who try to make out that they are free enterprisers. :lol: :lol:Oldtimer said:Big Muddy rancher said:What's wrong with a single national data base? We are heading that way for multi species. Ours works so good others want to be included.
But you already live in a socialized nation where government sleeps with you daily and you're used to it :wink: :lol: :lol: ........
We're trying to keep at least the appearance of still having independence..Remember our country was built around the idea of states rights and the state being the center of government.....
A single national database doesn't have as many cracks for things to fall through. :lol: :lol: :lol: Not as much wiggle room.Big Muddy rancher said:What's wrong with a single national data base? We are heading that way for multi species. Ours works so good others want to be included.
Bill said:A single national database doesn't have as many cracks for things to fall through. :lol: :lol: :lol: Not as much wiggle room.Big Muddy rancher said:What's wrong with a single national data base? We are heading that way for multi species. Ours works so good others want to be included.
A single national database would make for one-stop shopping for a terrorist.
Do you think there is specific cows or operations that terroriosts would prefer?ocm said:Bill said:A single national database doesn't have as many cracks for things to fall through. :lol: :lol: :lol: Not as much wiggle room.Big Muddy rancher said:What's wrong with a single national data base? We are heading that way for multi species. Ours works so good others want to be included.
A single national database would make for one-stop shopping for a terrorist.
nightcalver
Member
A committee is being formed that deals with property rights?
I thought that R-Calf's bylaws stated that they would focus only on trade and marketing issues. Is or was there a change to R-Calf's bylaws?
Or maybe they are just going to say that propery rights affect trade and markets?
Another question: How come the mail in ballots don't include proposed resolutions that were not passed at convention if this is truly a member run organization shouldn't members get to vote on all proposed resolutions?
I thought that R-Calf's bylaws stated that they would focus only on trade and marketing issues. Is or was there a change to R-Calf's bylaws?
Or maybe they are just going to say that propery rights affect trade and markets?
Another question: How come the mail in ballots don't include proposed resolutions that were not passed at convention if this is truly a member run organization shouldn't members get to vote on all proposed resolutions?
PORKER
Well-known member
A single national database would make for one-stop shopping for a terrorist.
You sure don't know much about 128 bit encryption databases cause if you did you would see that they track key strokes and IP addreses and hackers stay far away.
You sure don't know much about 128 bit encryption databases cause if you did you would see that they track key strokes and IP addreses and hackers stay far away.
nightcalver said:A committee is being formed that deals with property rights?
I thought that R-Calf's bylaws stated that they would focus only on trade and marketing issues. Is or was there a change to R-Calf's bylaws?
Or maybe they are just going to say that propery rights affect trade and markets?
Another question: How come the mail in ballots don't include proposed resolutions that were not passed at convention if this is truly a member run organization shouldn't members get to vote on all proposed resolutions?
By laws were changed last year to allow for addressing more issues than trade and marketing.
Some resolutions proposed at the convention conflicted with one another. It would be rather foolish to present conflicting resolutions for a vote. By design the current method gives some weight to members who attend the convention, but they never have the last word.
PORKER said:A single national database would make for one-stop shopping for a terrorist.
You sure don't know much about 128 bit encryption databases cause if you did you would see that they track key strokes and IP addreses and hackers stay far away.
128 bit encription can be cracked. Such encryption in 50 databases would make more sense. And the reward for cracking would be smaller. Also you are assuming something like an Islamic terrorist. What about some eco-terrorist vegan nut case who works inside the government?
PS. More youngest son has a degree in computer science. Granted, I don't have his knowledge, but we talk about computers a lot.