R-CALF supporter test of integrity

[Anonymous]

Now that the Canadian border is opened to imports of live cattle and enough calf and yearling sales have been held to prove that this year's calf market is virtually the same as last years, how many of you have enough integrity to admit that you have been misled by R-CALF overstating the affects of Canadian imports on our markets???

Tommy?

Rancher?

I know you don't Sandman!

I know you don't Old Timer!


What about the rest of you R-CALF supporters?

Do any of you have enough integrity to admit that R-CALF has overstated the impact of Canadian imports on our markets?

I doubt it!


Just like you couldn't admit the absolute stupidity of risking the integrity of 80% of our U.S. beef consumption (U.S. production) by lying about the safety of 5% of our U.S. beef consumption (Canadian live cattle imports) simply to stop Canadian live cattle imports.

It has been refreshing for me to see some avid R-CULT supporters admit to me already that R-CULT has overstated the affects of Canadian imports on our markets.

As time goes on, more and more conservative type producers are waking up to R-CULT's isolationist bullsh*t.



~SH~

 

[rancher]

SH, got to make this quick, just came in to call repair guy that is 2 hours late and he just drove in.

Things are not the same to make a honest answer. We are not getting the amount of cattle across we did pre-BSE. Expense is up to get these cattle across, too much paper work and hoops to jump through to free flow cattle across, they have more slaughter space up there, lack of truckers, too much stuff in a unease state. I sure could answer that if all things were the same. Canada is still taking it in the shorts for price comparison to ours with the border open? Why is that SH?

 

[feeder]

Well Sh, all I can say what has happened in my neck of the woods. IBP at Dakota City isn't bidding as aggressively or needing as many cattle from our area. There are quiet a few Canadian trucks unloading there. Also a local trucker is hauling 30 loads a week into Excell from Canada. That is just my little bit of knowledge.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Now that the Canadian border is opened to imports of live cattle and enough calf and yearling sales have been held to prove that this year's calf market is virtually the same as last years, how many of you have enough integrity to admit that you have been misled by R-CALF overstating the affects of Canadian imports on our markets???

Tommy?

Rancher?

I know you don't Sandman!

I know you don't Old Timer!


What about the rest of you R-CALF supporters?

Do any of you have enough integrity

to admit that R-CALF has overstated the impact of Canadian imports on our markets?

I doubt it!


Just like you couldn't admit the absolute stupidity of risking the integrity of 80% of our U.S. beef consumption (U.S. production) by lying about the safety of 5% of our U.S. beef consumption (Canadian live cattle imports) simply to stop Canadian live cattle imports.

It has been refreshing for me to see some avid R-CULT supporters admit to me already that R-CULT has overstated the affects of Canadian imports on our markets.

As time goes on, more and more conservative type producers are waking up to R-CULT's isolationist bullsh*t.



~SH~

SH using the word "integrity" that makes my day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!that's like a chicken snake calling a hound dog an egg sucker...................good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Rancher says, not as many trucks heading south due to expense and other difficulties.

Feeder contradicts this by saying packers are bidding less agressively in his area due to all the Canadian cattle coming in.


Hayseed says nothing just like he always does.


What do we know for sure?

Feeder cattle prices are virtually the same with the border opened as with the border closed and we know R-CALF was taking credit for higher cattle prices by overstating the affects of a closed Canadian border. We know that for sure.

Will anyone admit that?

They haven't yet!


I'll guess we'll have to get some hard data on imports to see how comparable last year's Canadian live cattle imports are to this years imports instead of presenting "OPINIONS" and "THEORIES" based on personal observations.


In two responses you can see one of the main problems with the information perpetuated within this industry. There is no consistancy and everyone sees the industry the way they want to see it.


Rancher,

Increased kill capacity means more boxed beef coming down which has the same net effect on adding to the U.S. beef supply so that dog won't hunt.


~SH~

 

[Econ101]

Rancher says, not as many trucks heading south due to expense and other difficulties.

Feeder contradicts this by saying packers are bidding less agressively in his area due to all the Canadian cattle coming in.


Hayseed says nothing just like he always does.


What do we know for sure?

Feeder cattle prices are virtually the same with the border opened as with the border closed and we know R-CALF was taking credit for higher cattle prices by overstating the affects of a closed Canadian border. We know that for sure.

Will anyone admit that?

They haven't yet!


I'll guess we'll have to get some hard data on imports to see how comparable last year's Canadian live cattle imports are to this years imports instead of presenting "OPINIONS" and "THEORIES" based on personal observations.


In two responses you can see one of the main problems with the information perpetuated within this industry. There is no consistancy and everyone sees the industry the way they want to see it.


Rancher,

Increased kill capacity means more boxed beef coming down which has the same net effect on adding to the U.S. beef supply so that dog won't hunt.


~SH~

Oh, so now everyone just has to ask SH for the correct answer. Never mind that it will change tomorrow. Answers of convenience. None of this fixes the BSE problem. That should be fixed for the sake of the beef business in all countries. Whatever reason is a good one for market consolidation, eh SH?

 

[feeder]

Nowhere in my post did I say Bids were weak due to Canadian cattle. I only stated what has been observed. Bids are weak; more truck seen; and local trucker hauling 30 loads per week.

 

[Anonymous]

Feeder: "Nowhere in my post did I say Bids were weak due to Canadian cattle."

You combined packers bidding less aggressively and increased Canadian trucks into the same paragraph. Naturally a parallel would be drawn.

If you were not drawing a correlation between less agressive bids and increased Canadian trucks, that is good. It shows that you are smart enough to realize that there is more factors playing on this market than a closed or open Canadian border which is what R-CULT is trying to mislead producers into believing.


My point is that last years higher cattle prices were not simply because of a closed Canadian border which is exactly what R-CULT has been promoting.

Kindergarten: "Oh, so now everyone just has to ask SH for the correct answer. Never mind that it will change tomorrow. Answers of convenience."

Again more cheap talk from Kindergarten.

It's always easier for the factually void to say my position has changed then to actualy prove it isn't it?

 

[Sandhusker]

SH questioning others integrity? :shock: Good grief.

How do you find the balls to refuse to back your statements with facts and then call Econ factually void? Why does your hypocracy continue?

 

[Anonymous]

Sandman,

I bet someone you would divert the issue if you responded at all. That was an easy bet to win.

Par for your course!


~SH~

 

[Tam]

SH, got to make this quick, just came in to call repair guy that is 2 hours late and he just drove in.

Things are not the same to make a honest answer. We are not getting the amount of cattle across we did pre-BSE. Expense is up to get these cattle across, too much paper work and hoops to jump through to free flow cattle across, they have more slaughter space up there, lack of truckers, too much stuff in a unease state. I sure could answer that if all things were the same. Canada is still taking it in the shorts for price comparison to ours with the border open? Why is that SH?

Weren't these all things we said would influence how many cattle would be coming down.
1. Expense is up
2. paper work and hoops to jump through
3. they have more slaughter space up there
4. lack of truckers,

I sure could answer that if all things were the same.

We have been trying to tell you and R-CALF all alone that things weren't going to be the same. Now you are saying well this happen and that happen and that is why what R-CALF claimed would happen didn't. Maybe if you would have listen to the people in our industry instead of someone that BELIEVES he knows what is going on in Canada you could have saved us all alot of time.

 

[rancher]

We have been trying to tell you and R-CALF all alone that things weren't going to be the same. Now you are saying well this happen and that happen and that is why what R-CALF claimed would happen didn't. Maybe if you would have listen to the people in our industry instead of someone that BELIEVES he knows what is going on in Canada you could have saved us all alot of time.

Things are not the same because R-Calf has brought it about. R-Calf is making USDA stop and think that they just can't do as they please. If R-calf had not pushed then things would have been the same and the cattle would free flow across and yes prices would drop. So you really don't know everything Queen Tam. King SH and Queen Tam should be rich, they are better than calling that hotline number and talk to the people that predict your future. Maybe you could get Macon to start a chat line of your own that people could get free predictions from. Count me out! Nothing personal, but just count me out!

 

[Murgen]

 

[Tam]

We are not getting the amount of cattle across we did pre-BSE.

Things are not the same because R-Calf has brought it about.

If R-calf had not pushed then things would have been the same and the cattle would free flow across and yes prices would drop.

Hey Rancher I just looked at the Canfax newsletter and it says

Exports over the past nine weeks are actually higher than the pre-BSE average. Other than the first week of resumed feeder cattle movement the range has been 5,692 to 10,661 head. This compares to a pre-BSE average of 2,944 to 4,199 head in August and September. Generally two factors have contributed to this trend so far 1) the U.S. owned feeder cattle that were on feed in Canada and were destined to U.S. finishing lots have moved and 2) a strong feeder market continues to draw feeders south.

Gee imports of feeders is above average and boxed beef is at record levels and still the US cattle prices haven't DROPPED.

So you really don't know everything Queen Tam.

well Rancher looks like you don't know as much as you think you know either. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Original question:

SH: "How many of you have enough integrity to admit that you have been misled by R-CALF overstating the affects of Canadian imports on our markets???"

Rancher (in response): "We are not getting the amount of cattle across we did pre-BSE."

CANFAX: "Exports over the past nine weeks are actually higher than the pre-BSE average. Other than the first week of resumed feeder cattle movement the range has been 5,692 to 10,661 head. This compares to a pre-BSE average of 2,944 to 4,199 head in August and September. Generally two factors have contributed to this trend so far 1) the U.S. owned feeder cattle that were on feed in Canada and were destined to U.S. finishing lots have moved and 2) a strong feeder market continues to draw feeders south."

Ok Rancher,

This brings us back to the original question:

SH: "How many of you have enough integrity to admit that you have been misled by R-CALF overstating the affects of Canadian imports on our markets???"

~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

We are not getting the amount of cattle across we did pre-BSE.

Things are not the same because R-Calf has brought it about.

If R-calf had not pushed then things would have been the same and the cattle would free flow across and yes prices would drop.

Hey Rancher I just looked at the Canfax newsletter and it says

Exports over the past nine weeks are actually higher than the pre-BSE average. Other than the first week of resumed feeder cattle movement the range has been 5,692 to 10,661 head. This compares to a pre-BSE average of 2,944 to 4,199 head in August and September. Generally two factors have contributed to this trend so far 1) the U.S. owned feeder cattle that were on feed in Canada and were destined to U.S. finishing lots have moved and 2) a strong feeder market continues to draw feeders south.

Gee imports of feeders is above average and boxed beef is at record levels and still the US cattle prices haven't DROPPED.

So you really don't know everything Queen Tam.

well Rancher looks like you don't know as much as you think you know either. :roll:

How many of those were Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle that came in thru Canada?- they usually don't seperate that info when they cross the border.

Also as long as all the restrictions stay in place- buyers and feeders can afford to pay more for US born and raised, rather than go thru the hoops and loops of required to import or feed Canadian....Need R-CALF to keep USDA from lowering those rules...

Tam- What about the new feedlot requirements for heifers to be imported?

 

[Anonymous]

Tam- I stole this from a post Kato put on Agriville- in case you hadn't heard....

kato posted Sep 23, 2005 14:12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just got a memo from the CFIA today regarding the new protocol for shipping heifers to the states. This is for fats and feeders alike.

If they are going to be preg checked by palpation, they need certification that they have been segregated from all male cattle for at least 50 days before the preg check. This means steers too. This means they must be in separate pens. Not only that, they must be in pens that are separated by at least one other pen. They CAN NOT be in adjoining pens.

I don't know about anyone else here, but we don't have so many pens in the yard that we can put a pen between the heifers and the steers. Besides that, what would we put in it? Not heifers, because they would be ineligible. Not steers. So we have an empty pen? Just sitting there? I know feedlots can segregate easier than we can, but they have the same problem with what to put in the middle as well.

They did cut some slack for heifers tested by ultrasound. The limit is only 35 days. Wow! I am so underwhelmed by the generosity.

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "How many of those were Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle that came in thru Canada?- they usually don't seperate that info when they cross the border."

Dazzle us with your brilliance OT, tell us, how many Hawaiian and Alaskan cattle do you think are included in those numbers and what percentage you believe they would constitute of the total?


I knew you'd try to pull some lame @ss excuse like this out of your hat if you responded at all.


You just don't have it in you to be honest with yourself regarding how R-CULT has misled their followers on the impact of Canadian live cattle imports do you?

You R-CULT clones are so pathetic when it comes to showing any degree of integrity.



~SH~

 

[rancher]

Where's the Data?
by Brett Crotts

Last month I was very excited about a new report from the USDA that gave the daily imports of cattle from Canada. Unlike most USDA data it was current, which made it very useful. At the time, I wondered why they hadn't provided this information before and why we didn't have similar reports for cattle from Mexico or for any other product. I remember thinking that there must have been someone that put pressure on the right person to get this report out. Well, apparently there was someone else that put pressure on the right person because the USDA quit releasing the daily data. I find that very disappointing. We have the technology to make this information readily available, but apparently someone doesn't want us to have it.

One of the things that would be very interesting to study, if the daily data were available, would be the changes in market price day to day versus the number of cattle coming in from Canada. In the past Canada was a good source of captive supplies and it would be interesting to see if that is still the case. It would be interesting to see if volume from Canada increases as negotiated trade volume in the US decreases. Eventually I will be able to do this with weekly and monthly data, but right now there isn't enough weekly import data or monthly slaughter data to do much work. Daily data would still be better because you could see if there is a rush of cattle on Monday's or Friday's that the packers need to operate plants. I think that it would be much easier to explain some of the market activity that we see, if mandatory price reporting worked, and we were allow to see data like this.

This is just speculation, but I think one of the reasons that we don't get the daily data anymore has to do with the accuracy of the numbers. If we had daily data, I think we would see a lot of revisions. We have plenty of revisions with the weekly data, so even though I think we have the technology to make the information available, the USDA probably can't keep the numbers straight on a daily basis. I also read an article that claimed that Canadian export numbers and US import numbers didn't match. That is disturbing, although we do see this problem in the grains on a regular basis. The Census Bureau and the USDA frequently disagree on how much grain we export.

Anyway, according to the last report we have imported a total of 101,501 cattle from Canada. 53% of the cattle are slaughter steers or heifers and the most of the rest are feeder cattle. I don't know how they classified the 31-month-old cow that was mistakenly allowed into the US, or the 8 pregnant cows that were in the same load, they must be part of the 12 head now classified as "other."

For the 47 days that the border has been open, the daily average of imports is 2159. For the last reported week, the average was 2585. I still think that the daily average will move over 3000 head per day at some point, unless Canadian slaughter capacity has expanded more than I thought.

The market impact of the border opening doesn't seem to be too severe at first glance. We are making new contact highs in the feeder cattle futures after all. However, if you look at the data, you see a different picture. For the first 6 months of 2005, 750-800 lb. feeder steers were almost always priced higher than in 2004. Since the border with Canada opened, the price of the same cattle has been consistently under last year. There are other factors involved, namely feedlot profits, but it is certainly an interesting coincidence if that is all it is.

With the exception of the week of September 9th, the price of live cattle has also been lower than a year ago since the Canadian border was reopened. I think that would have been the case anyway since there are more cattle available to the market than last year even without the addition of the Canadian animals. The other reason that cattle prices are lower than a year ago is that boxed beef prices are lower and boxed beef prices are lower in part because of record beef imports from Canada. As I have said before, we will end up with the same amount of beef on the market has we had pre-BSE, but now more of it will be processed in Canada instead of the US.

The real market impact will start to show up about the end of November when the feeder cattle that we have imported start going to slaughter. Even at current import rates that means that everyday Canadian cattle will make up about 3% of the steers and heifers slaughtered everyday. This small increase in supply coupled with the larger supplies of domestic cattle that are being slaughtered at higher weights, along with record beef imports will make for some disappointing prices this winter.

One of the things that would be very interesting to study, if the daily data were available, would be the changes in market price day to day versus the number of cattle coming in from Canada. In the past Canada was a good source of captive supplies and it would be interesting to see if that is still the case. It would be interesting to see if volume from Canada increases as negotiated trade volume in the US decreases. Eventually I will be able to do this with weekly and monthly data, but right now there isn't enough weekly import data or monthly slaughter data to do much work. Daily data would still be better because you could see if there is a rush of cattle on Monday's or Friday's that the packers need to operate plants, but someone at the USDA doesn't want us to see it.BC

Schwieterman Marketing, L.L.C. specializes in risk management and cash grain and livestock marketing plans. For information on the markets or our marketing service you can contact Bret Crotts at 888-437-9131 or bret@swbell.net.

 

[Bill]

Source: Barbara Duckworth; page 66 Western Producer.

For the first 7 months of '05, the US imported 80% of Canada's processed beef.

Since July 19th nearly 110,000 UTMs have been sent from Canada to the US which means Canada is shipping 90% of its beef and live cattle to the US. Before May '03, 70% of Canada's beef and cattle went to the US.

How much of a beef herd do you think ALASKA has Oldtimer? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have to laugh when I read the title of this thread. R-Calf and integrity don't belong in the same sentence. :roll: