READ-the real hurt of R-calf's greed.

[Sandhusker]

What a pathetic attempt at R-CULT "conscience cleansing".

R-CULT lied about the safety of Canadian beef and continues to lie about the safety of Canadian beef.

If it wasn't for R-CULT we would be importing Canadian cattle today that are now coming down in boxes instead of duping Japan into believing that our beef is safe, WITH CANADIAN CATTLE IN THE MIX, while R-CULT says Canadian cattle are unsafe.

Quit being such a coward Sandhusker and claim the knife sticking out of the Canadian producers back.



~SH~

What is this "R-CULT" you speak of? You aren't degressing to schoolyard level by calling names, are you? It's not much of a crediblity builder.

You tell us what age of cattle Japan takes from us (or took) - how many Canadian cattle of that age are "in the mix"?

So there are lies being spread about Canadian cattle being unsafe? For someone to holler "liar" and say they are 100% safe, they would have to know exactly how BSE was contracted and spread. They would have to understand completely the nature of prions. They would have to know without a doubt exactly which tissues carry the prions and which don't. Do you have that information?

 

[Bill]

What a pathetic attempt at R-CULT "conscience cleansing".

R-CULT lied about the safety of Canadian beef and continues to lie about the safety of Canadian beef.

If it wasn't for R-CULT we would be importing Canadian cattle today that are now coming down in boxes instead of duping Japan into believing that our beef is safe, WITH CANADIAN CATTLE IN THE MIX, while R-CULT says Canadian cattle are unsafe.

Quit being such a coward Sandhusker and claim the knife sticking out of the Canadian producers back.



~SH~

What is this "R-CULT" you speak of? You aren't degressing to schoolyard level by calling names, are you? It's not much of a crediblity builder.

You tell us what age of cattle Japan takes from us (or took) - how many Canadian cattle of that age are "in the mix"?

So there are lies being spread about Canadian cattle being unsafe? For someone to holler "liar" and say they are 100% safe, they would have to know exactly how BSE was contracted and spread. They would have to understand completely the nature of prions. They would have to know without a doubt exactly which tissues carry the prions and which don't. Do you have that information?

Your whole arguement is based on the dangerous assumption that the USDA absoultely does not have BSE. No one in the world believes that except some Americans and of those I believe they are not very firm in their belief. A very fine line you are walking while "crying wolf"!

It is about to get very interesting.

 

[Tam]

Come on, Tam. You're an intelligent woman. Back up and take a look at your answers. You WANT to blame R-CALF for your problems. Your answers were "The other guys, BUT if R-CALF would..." R-CALF has no power over the packers, Federal Judges, the US government, the USDA, or the Canadian Government! You KNOW that! Omit the "BUT" and quit fooling yourself!

R-CALF has no power, that is what the rest of the beef industry has been thinking. But now we are realizing that you can be just a small town protectionist group as long as you have a lawyer and a Federal Judge you can tie the US government, the USDA up in court until you destroy a few of the packers that you seem to hate. No you don't control the Canadian Government but our government has no power over what you do in the US and as long as this border is closed they are trying to keep our beef industry going. Maybe some of the money was paid to the wrong people but that sometimes is the problem with emergency measures to safe an indusrty. They often are all good intentions but not very well thought out.

So there are lies being spread about Canadian cattle being unsafe? For someone to holler "liar" and say they are 100% safe, they would have to know exactly how BSE was contracted and spread. They would have to understand completely the nature of prions. They would have to know without a doubt exactly which tissues carry the prions and which don't. Do you have that information?

For someone to say that US beef is 100% safe, they would have to know exactly how BSE was contracted and spread. They would have to understand completely the nature of prions. They would have to know without a doubt exactly which tissues carry the prions and which don't. Does R-CALF have that information? They seem to know that our beef is unsafe and the US beef is safe so with what information are they basing their claims. And how can the US Beef be safe? Aren't their millions of Canadian cattle living down there? Couldn't these animals have contaminated your pastures and feedlots with their normal body functions? Weren't UK cattle imported just like in Canada and the EU countries ? Wasn't there UK feed imported just like in Canada and the EU countries ? Isn't there a chance of a spontanious case just like any another country? Isn't there a chance of one of the other theroies could kick in and cause it? How can R-CALF be so sure that the US doesn't have it they are claiming US BEEF IS SAFE while the other countries that have done some of the same things have found BSE within their borders? If they aren't lieing about Canadian beef then maybe they are lieing about US beef!!!! Sucks when you own words come back to bite you doesn't it.

 

[Tam]

"You truly know you live in a great country when a few ranchers can band together and stand defiant to the most powerful man in the world and come out on top".

Aren't you counting your chicken before they are hatched? To come out on top you will have to win the trial and any appeals. If you win you will have to live with the consequences of possibably killing any chance of retaining export markets or holding on to domestic consumer demand. As if you win you just proved to the world that the science that Canada used which just happens to be the same science that all countries including the US has used, is wrong and everyone that eats beef anywhere is at risk. If you don't win and the NMA wins theirs, R-CALF will have to come up with the money to cover the damages that their injunction and further delay of the border openning caused and that is already in the millions. So how will this put this these few ranchers that band together on top. You win, no exports and a huge damage to consumer confidence in beef WORLDWIDE. You loss, damages to the turn of millions paid to the packers by a group that hates packers and that is finding it hard to cover their legal bills now. If these few ranchers were smart they would see this as a dangerous loss loss situation!!!!

The only possible good that could come out of this is we will be rid of R-CALF, Bullard and McDonnell and rest of the misfits. Because they are not going to want to face the consequences of their actions. Maybe they can move to Brazil and start up a chapter of R-CALF there.

 

[Anonymous]

Sandhusker: "You tell us what age of cattle Japan takes from us (or took) - how many Canadian cattle of that age are "in the mix"?"

I am not aware that anyone knows how many Canadian cattle are in the mix. We simply know they are there. The number is irrelevant to the fact that they are there. R-CULT even wanted USDA to find them without the traceback system that R-CULT prohibited from "M"COOL.


Sandhusker: "So there are lies being spread about Canadian cattle being unsafe? For someone to holler "liar" and say they are 100% safe, they would have to know exactly how BSE was contracted and spread."

They do and that is why the feed ban is in place and SRM removal.

THE EXACT SAME PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES THAT ASSURE THE U.S. CONSUMERS TO THE SAFETY OF OUR BEEF


Sandhusker: "They would have to understand completely the nature of prions. They would have to know without a doubt exactly which tissues carry the prions and which don't. Do you have that information?"

The best available research has led to the feed ban and SRM removal.

Can we expect R-CALF to be asking these same questions if we find a domestic case of BSE????

Will their concerns be the same???

If not, why not?

Can't have it both ways.

If Canadian beef is unsafe now, U.S. beef is unsafe because we have Canadian cattle in our mix.

If we have a domestic case of BSE, R-CALF will not have a leg to stand on in defending the safety of our beef due to the careless, reckless, politically motivated BSE "fear mongering" they are currently doing just to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle. The same cattle that are now coming down in boxes.



~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

"You truly know you live in a great country when a few ranchers can band together and stand defiant to the most powerful man in the world and come out on top".

Aren't you counting your chicken before they are hatched? To come out on top you will have to win the trial and any appeals. If you win you will have to live with the consequences of possibably killing any chance of retaining export markets or holding on to domestic consumer demand. As if you win you just proved to the world that the science that Canada used which just happens to be the same science that all countries including the US has used, is wrong and everyone that eats beef anywhere is at risk. If you don't win and the NMA wins theirs, R-CALF will have to come up with the money to cover the damages that their injunction and further delay of the border openning caused and that is already in the millions. So how will this put this these few ranchers that band together on top. You win, no exports and a huge damage to consumer confidence in beef WORLDWIDE. You loss, damages to the turn of millions paid to the packers by a group that hates packers and that is finding it hard to cover their legal bills now. If these few ranchers were smart they would see this as a dangerous loss loss situation!!!!

The only possible good that could come out of this is we will be rid of R-CALF, Bullard and McDonnell and rest of the misfits. Because they are not going to want to face the consequences of their actions. Maybe they can move to Brazil and start up a chapter of R-CALF there.

Tam- I don't know how this Canadian border deal will play out or how it will end.. You and I are never going to agree on the border issue- but I think you are wrong on R-CALF's future... I look at this the same as a night at the fights- a fight R-CALF has going to keep fair trade practices and fair prices for US ranchers and cattlemen.... About now we are in the third round of a fifteen round bout- with several more fights to follow-- R-CALF is already working on CAFTA, AFTA and Free Trade of the Americas... All of which could have a major impact on both the US and Canadian cattle industries- those upcoming agreements have the possibility of becoming much larger in the eyes of Canadians in a few years than the current US border issue .... I think that the successes R-CALF has had will cause the organization to grow and expand--they are already influencing some of NCBA's trade policy-- many of the cattle market issues R-CALF has been espounding for the past 5 years have been shown to be factual when the border closed for whatever reason...

And I never figured I was following R-CALF's beliefs-- always felt it was the other way around- R-CALF is finally promoting the way I have felt for years on many trade issues-- long before R-CALF even came to be.......

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker: "You tell us what age of cattle Japan takes from us (or took) - how many Canadian cattle of that age are "in the mix"?"

I am not aware that anyone knows how many Canadian cattle are in the mix. We simply know they are there. The number is irrelevant to the fact that they are there. R-CULT even wanted USDA to find them without the traceback system that R-CULT prohibited from "M"COOL.

Let me draw a picture for you; The US has not taken any live cattle from Canada since May, 2003. As it is now March, 2005, we have not taken any live Canadian cattle for 22 months now. An R-CALFer could deduce that there are 0 Canadian cattle under 22 months in the US. A R-CALF blamer may need more proof. Following with your lesson in the truth, the USDA is trying to get Japan to accept animals even younger than 22 months. THUS, the answer of how many Canadian animals that are in the mix of what we are trying to send Japan is 0. Do you n eed more proof or would you rather simply label this another R-CALF lie?


Sandhusker: "So there are lies being spread about Canadian cattle being unsafe? For someone to holler "liar" and say they are 100% safe, they would have to know exactly how BSE was contracted and spread."

SH, "They do and that is why the feed ban is in place and SRM removal."

"They" do NOT know exactly how BSE is contacted and spread. The feed ban and SRM removal is simply their best guess to combat it. You KNOW that, SH, yet you choose to deliberately deceive. Deliberately deceiving is lying.

THE EXACT SAME PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES THAT ASSURE THE U.S. CONSUMERS TO THE SAFETY OF OUR BEEF


Sandhusker: "They would have to understand completely the nature of prions. They would have to know without a doubt exactly which tissues carry the prions and which don't. Do you have that information?"

SH, "The best available research has led to the feed ban and SRM removal."

Your choice of "The best available resarch" says it all. ANOTHER EDUCATED GUESS. NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE!! You know that as well.
Why do you feel the need to avoid the truth? I guess it's more fun to simply bash R-CALF and call them liars.

SH, "Can we expect R-CALF to be asking these same questions if we find a domestic case of BSE???? Will their concerns be the same??? If not, why not?

I guess we'll find out IF we find a case here.

SH, "Cant have it both ways. If Canadian beef is unsafe now, U.S. beef is unsafe because we have Canadian cattle in our mix. "

That's exactly why R-CALF wants us to find the Canadian cattle down here.

SH,"If we have a domestic case of BSE, R-CALF will not have a leg to stand on in defending the safety of our beef due to the careless, reckless, politically motivated BSE "fear mongering" they are currently doing just to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle. The same cattle that are now coming down in boxes."

"IF" we get it has NOTHING to do with what we know and don't know about BSE. Sure is hard for you to stay on topic without going on a R-CALF blaming tangent.


~SH~

[/b]0

 

[rancher]

This is SH's motto

If you can't convince them, confuse them.

 

[Anonymous]

Sandhusker: "Let me draw a picture for you; The US has not taken any live cattle from Canada since May, 2003. As it is now March, 2005, we have not taken any live Canadian cattle for 22 months now. An R-CALFer could deduce that there are 0 Canadian cattle under 22 months in the US. A R-CALF blamer may need more proof. Following with your lesson in the truth, the USDA is trying to get Japan to accept animals even younger than 22 months. THUS, the answer of how many Canadian animals that are in the mix of what we are trying to send Japan is 0."


Do you think this is something revolutionary?????

You R-CULTers act like everyone else in the industry is as naive as you are.


There is Canadian cows in our herds. Those Canadian cows are having calves and those calves are in our herds.


Did R-CALF not tell USDA to find those cattle and test them within our system????

THE ANSWER IS YES!

By your own admission....

Sandhusker: "That's exactly why R-CALF wants us to find the Canadian cattle down here."


By your admission that those cattle are within our system and R-CULT telling consumers that Canadian beef is unsafe, one can only logically conclude that our beef is unsafe also.

You can't bullsh*t your way around it and certainly not with me.


If we didn't have Canadian cattle in our system and it wasn't an issue, your deceptive R-CULT wouldn't be demanding that USDA find them and test them.


Sandhusker: ""They" do NOT know exactly how BSE is contacted and spread. The feed ban and SRM removal is simply their best guess to combat it."

"BEST GUESS" my a$$!

It's the best BSE science accepted the world over and BSE testing is confirming that science in the United States and Canda by finding BSE confirmed cattle prior to and during the feed ban.


You only grab onto the "theories" to the contrary to support your "IMMEDIATE BIAS" to keep the Canadian border closed.


Are you willing to make the same statements in the event that BSE is discovered in a domestic animal????

NO WAY !!!!


You'll be running with your tail tucked between your damn legs letting USDA and NCBA do the damage control for R-CULT's lies.

"LIVE FOR THE MOMENT, TO HELL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES" THAT'S R-CULT'S BSE MOTTO!!!


WE HAD BSE WITHIN OUR SYSTEM SANDHUSKER!!!!!

Where the animal originated from is an R-CULT "red herring" to the fact that it was here.

IF THE PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES TAKEN BY CANADA ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO ASSURE THE SAFETY OF THEIR BEEF, THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO ASSURE THE SAFETY OF OUR BEEF. IT'S THAT DAMN SIMPLE.

You cannot draw one set of standards for Canada and another set of standards for the United States when we are using the exact same precautionary measures.

I don't care how bad you want to keep Canadian cattle out of this country that are now coming down in boxes, you cannot lie your way around the facts.

EITHER THE PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES WE HAVE BOTH TAKEN ARE ADEQUATE FOR BOTH OF US OR THEY ARE ADEQUATE FOR NEITHER OF US!!!!


~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

rancher,

When you think you can do more than wave the R-CULT pom poms, you just step up to the plate and show your facts to contradict what I have stated.

I thought you had more integrity than to support the lies about the safety of Canadian beef in contrast with our beef.

Sandhusker is as deceptive as Bullard but I expected more integrity from you on this issue.


~SH~

 

[rancher]

SH, I thought you had more back bone, you cuss R-calf for flip flop, but when I point out NCBA's flip flop you ignore it. So take me as I am.

 

[Anonymous]

rancher: "I thought you had more back bone, you cuss R-calf for flip flop, but when I point out NCBA's flip flop you ignore it."

What flip flop did you think you saw this time?

Gary Weber's statement is not a contradiction and may have been taken out of context. You don't know!

Bring the contradiction that you think you saw rancher!



~SH~

 

[rancher]

I posted the link to the NCBA site, so should be not out on content. Read what I posted. They say no OTHER country, what else did you think they meant?

 

[Sandhusker]

SH, "Sandhusker is as deceptive as Bullard but I expected more integrity from you on this issue. "

You know, SH, it's one thing for you to call Bullard a liar when he isn't here to defend himself. However, I am here and I consider being called "deceptive" the same as being called a liar - and that torks me off.
If you want to call me "deceptive", you show it - "Sandhusker is deceptive because...."

When you're talking about professional people who care about their reputation, you better bring more than childish name-calling.

 

[Anonymous]

"Sandhusker is deceptive because...."

1. He twists statements to conform to what he wants them to say.

2. Supports R-CULT's lies about the safety of Canadian beef.

3. Calls everything into question he doesn't agree with rather than providing facts to support his position to the contrary.

4. Supports Creekstone's deception by their creating a "PERCEPTION" of food safety with 100% testing that would reveal nothing.

5. You support R-CULT and you admit that they only present the half of the story that supports their position which is deceptive.


That's just a start.


I'm glad you are torked off. Maybe you'll take a harder look at what you support and how you support it.


~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

Hat: "Now I'm not a math major but my sale barn owner told me I'll get payed more as long as the border is shut. I think he's right, what do you think Scott?"

I think you should do your own reasearch rather than believing everything your sale barn owner tells you. They tell you what they want you to hear, not necessarily the truth.

Normalized trade means more money for your cattle than no trade.

Do Canadian imports reflect negatively on prices? Of course as does our export markets reflect positively on prices.

If Canada absorbs our export markets, what have you gained? Not a damn thing!

No trade means less money for your cattle than normal trade. Normalized trade should be your goal.


~SH~

 

[Mike]

Creekstone's (and other smaller packers) offering to test can in no way be creating deception. They are simply offering to give the customer what they request. That is what "Free Enterprise" is all about.

They cannot, no way in hell, be creating any type of "PERCEPTION" by offering to do for a customer what they do for themselves. You seem to forget that Japan tests every animal slaughtered. It's their law, and it includes each country who has had a case of BSE.

When you get an offer from a buyer to buy your calves requesting that all vaccinations be included is the exact same thing. If you sell to him under his provisions you are giving him what he wants in return.

The USDA has made a big mistake in BSE testing by saying that it is not about "Food Safety" when it is an important guideline by OIE's standards.
In fact "Public Health" is the number one priority for detecting BSE!

 

[Anonymous]

There is a big difference between providing vaccines that have value and providing BSE testing that doesn't have value.

If 100% BSE testing did not create the "PERCEPTION" of safety, there would be no reason to do it.

I see it the same as false advertising.

You see it differently and we will never agree on this issue.


~SH~

 

[Murgen]

Hey Hat, did your Sales barn owner tell you that you could take the day off school?

 

[Bill]

"Sandhusker is deceptive because...."

1. He twists statements to conform to what he wants them to say.

2. Supports R-CULT's lies about the safety of Canadian beef.

3. Calls everything into question he doesn't agree with rather than providing facts to support his position to the contrary.

4. Supports Creekstone's deception by their creating a "PERCEPTION" of food safety with 100% testing that would reveal nothing.

5. You support R-CULT and you admit that they only present the half of the story that supports their position which is deceptive.


That's just a start.


I'm glad you are torked off. Maybe you'll take a harder look at what you support and how you support it.


~SH~

I don't have all the "fancy" numbers you have but my sale barn owner says that when they say the border is going to open the price goes down, and when they say the border is gonna stay shut the price goes up. Now I'm not a math major but my sale barn owner told me I'll get payed more as long as the border is shut. I think he's right, what do you think Scott?

I have to when you say "MY SALE BARN OWNER SAYS".

Most sale barn owners would lie to their mother on a stack of bibles if they could make a buck out of it.

Better find a much more credible source than some sale barn owner.