Rule 2 Blockage may be Expedited

[Tam]

I would like Haymaker, Oldtimer and Sandhusker to explain something.

If open trade with Canada prior to May 2003 never resulted in any US cattle becoming infected from the BSE strain that Canada found ie the US strain was not imported from Canada . Then what makes you think your herd will be infected now that we know and even more firewalls have been implemented on both sides of the border?

 

[Sandhusker]

I would like Haymaker, Oldtimer and Sandhusker to explain something.

If open trade with Canada prior to May 2003 never resulted in any US cattle becoming infected from the BSE strain that Canada found ie the US strain was not imported from Canada . Then what makes you think your herd will be infected now that we know and even more firewalls have been implemented on both sides of the border?

If you can't answer the question I've posed for everybody; to explain how Canadian BSE can't enter our herd via the new rule, your question doesn't need to be asked - you already know the answer.

 

[HAY MAKER]

I would like Haymaker, Oldtimer and Sandhusker to explain something.

If open trade with Canada prior to May 2003 never resulted in any US cattle becoming infected from the BSE strain that Canada found ie the US strain was not imported from Canada . Then what makes you think your herd will be infected now that we know and even more firewalls have been implemented on both sides of the border?

Miss Tam,I dont remember saying open trade with canada infected the US cattle herd,and I dont believe they will be infected now.............good luck

 

[Kato]

Thank you. 8)

 

[HAY MAKER]

OK Miss Tam,you asked....... #1 can we have Haymaker our third voice of R-CALF logic wade in and tell us which way it is.
Yes mam you can
#2 Has the US feedban eradicated BSE like fellow R-CALFER Oldtimer claims
It is my humble opinion,the feed ban is working,and unlike Canada is being complied with.
#3 or has it been compromised like your other fellow R-CALFER Sandhusker claims?
Its obvious to everyone concerned the usda needs to do a better job enforcing the feed ban,but the fact that you have many times the number of positive BSE cases both pre and post with a tenth amount of cattle,tells me our feed ban is being complied with,and yours is not.
#4 IS BSE a threat to US consumers or not?
Yes BSE is a threat to the the US consumer,that's why it is very important we tighten our # 1 firewall which is imports.
#5 Is US Beef the world safest beef raised to the world's highest standards like R-CALF claims
Yes mam it certainly is,and will stay that way if we stay vigilant, maintain our fire walls and limit our imports from BSE infected countries.
#6 or is it a Genuine Risk of Death like R-CALF's Federal Judge Cebull claimed all beef coming from a BSE effected country is?
I tend to agree with the judge,all beef coming from a country that has refused to comply with their feed ban,has many BSE positives both pre and post,are definetly high Risk.
#7 I'm confused
What's new.
good luck

Tell us Haymaker if your US feedban was fully complied to and eradicated BSE in the US like you and Oldtimer claim, then just how much better was the USDA to enforce it? Sounds like you should be congratulating them not ragging on their screw ups!!!

Great way to sell beef Haymaker telling everyone beef coming from a BSE counrty is a genuine risk of death when the world knows the US closer yet your great state of TEXAS has found BSE!!!!

And Do us all a favor and read the GOA report on the US feedban compliance will you!! Then do a google search on recalled contaminated ruminant feed in the US. Let's see who is refusing to comply.

You are talkin mighty big tonite for such a short legged lil devil,especially after posting that peta propaganda.............good luck

 

[Anonymous]

I would like Haymaker, Oldtimer and Sandhusker to explain something.

If open trade with Canada prior to May 2003 never resulted in any US cattle becoming infected from the BSE strain that Canada found ie the US strain was not imported from Canada . Then what makes you think your herd will be infected now that we know and even more firewalls have been implemented on both sides of the border?

But remember-- one from Canada showed up testing positive at one of our slaughter houses-- costing the US cattle industry Billions $.....With the 26 fold increased risk of the cattle in Canada, this could occur again.....

That along with the fact that until we get M-COOL implemented- the importing and comingling of the higher risk cattle/beef will negatively affect our domestic demand....

Its not worth taking the risk......The US stands nothing to gain and all to lose...

 

[HAY MAKER]

Thank you. 8)

Dont thank me too much kato,it's not the transmission from cow to cow that I worry about...............good luck

 

[Tam]

I would like Haymaker, Oldtimer and Sandhusker to explain something.

If open trade with Canada prior to May 2003 never resulted in any US cattle becoming infected from the BSE strain that Canada found ie the US strain was not imported from Canada . Then what makes you think your herd will be infected now that we know and even more firewalls have been implemented on both sides of the border?

But remember-- one from Canada showed up testing positive at one of our slaughter houses-- costing the US cattle industry Billions $.....With the 26 fold increased risk of the cattle in Canada, this could occur again.....

That along with the fact that until we get M-COOL implemented- the importing and comingling of the higher risk cattle/beef will negatively affect our domestic demand....

Its not worth taking the risk......The US stands nothing to gain and all to lose...

Wrong what cost you billions is the fact that the OIE told you, you could not consider her in isolation of your domestic herd because of over a hundred years of OPEN TRADE. Funny thing is after all those years of open trade with a country about to find BSE you never found more than one imported case or any effects from any other Canadian cow.

now stop diverting the topic and answer why your system was able to protect your herd from all those years of open trade but for some reason it can't now?

Telling your export markets beef coming from a BSE effected country is unsafe is not a smart thing to do when those trading partners believe you are a BSE effected country Oldtimer You have your export markets to loose are you willing to do that?

 

[Anonymous]

Telling your export markets beef coming from a BSE effected country is unsafe is not a smart thing to do when those trading partners believe you are a BSE effected country Oldtimer You have your export markets to loose are you willing to do that?

What countries do we have an open trade market with? One of the problems that has held up negotiations with some of these countries has been the comingling of Canadian beef....

Anwer me one question there Tam-- If Canada is so confident of their beef--why are Canuck ranchers organizations fighting so hard to keep people from knowing they are buying Canadian beef? Why are they afraid to tell folks the truth :???:

You ain't afraid of the truth are you there Tammy-- afraid to stand on your own two feet and get off your US cattlemen neighbors shirttails :???:

 

[Tam]

Telling your export markets beef coming from a BSE effected country is unsafe is not a smart thing to do when those trading partners believe you are a BSE effected country Oldtimer You have your export markets to loose are you willing to do that?

What countries do we have an open trade market with? One of the problems that has held up negotiations with some of these countries has been the comingling of Canadian beef....

Anwer me one question there Tam-- If Canada is so confident of their beef--why are Canuck ranchers organizations fighting so hard to keep people from knowing they are buying Canadian beef? Why are they afraid to tell folks the truth :???:

You ain't afraid of the truth are you there Tammy-- afraid to stand on your own two feet and get off your US cattlemen neighbors shirttails :???:

More distracting from my questions Oldtimer with your shirttail crap!!!!
Just answer my question what was protecting you and your herd from all those Canadian cattle that were imported into the US between 1993 qnd 2003 when we first found the effects of our 1993 UK imported cow? And if it was protecting you and eradicating your own BSE then why can't it do it NOW???? Answer the questions and stop diverting!!!!!!

 

[Tam]

OK Miss Tam,you asked....... #1 can we have Haymaker our third voice of R-CALF logic wade in and tell us which way it is.
Yes mam you can
#2 Has the US feedban eradicated BSE like fellow R-CALFER Oldtimer claims
It is my humble opinion,the feed ban is working,and unlike Canada is being complied with.
#3 or has it been compromised like your other fellow R-CALFER Sandhusker claims?
Its obvious to everyone concerned the usda needs to do a better job enforcing the feed ban,but the fact that you have many times the number of positive BSE cases both pre and post with a tenth amount of cattle,tells me our feed ban is being complied with,and yours is not.
#4 IS BSE a threat to US consumers or not?
Yes BSE is a threat to the the US consumer,that's why it is very important we tighten our # 1 firewall which is imports.
#5 Is US Beef the world safest beef raised to the world's highest standards like R-CALF claims
Yes mam it certainly is,and will stay that way if we stay vigilant, maintain our fire walls and limit our imports from BSE infected countries.
#6 or is it a Genuine Risk of Death like R-CALF's Federal Judge Cebull claimed all beef coming from a BSE effected country is?
I tend to agree with the judge,all beef coming from a country that has refused to comply with their feed ban,has many BSE positives both pre and post,are definetly high Risk.
#7 I'm confused
What's new.
good luck

Tell us Haymaker if your US feedban was fully complied to and eradicated BSE in the US like you and Oldtimer claim, then just how much better was the USDA to enforce it? Sounds like you should be congratulating them not ragging on their screw ups!!!

Great way to sell beef Haymaker telling everyone beef coming from a BSE counrty is a genuine risk of death when the world knows the US closer yet your great state of TEXAS has found BSE!!!!

And Do us all a favor and read the GOA report on the US feedban compliance will you!! Then do a google search on recalled contaminated ruminant feed in the US. Let's see who is refusing to comply.

You are talkin mighty big tonite for such a short legged lil devil,especially after posting that peta propaganda.............good luck

So posting something that your beloved R-CALF has been trying to prove in a Federal Count of Law is now posting PETA Propaganda is it. :shock: Come on Haymaker you can do better than that to divert the topic. If you can't, just answer the question what was protecting the US cattle herd from the threat of BSE while you were openly importing from not just Canada but other BSE effected countries before they actuallly found they had BSE??

 

[Anonymous]

Telling your export markets beef coming from a BSE effected country is unsafe is not a smart thing to do when those trading partners believe you are a BSE effected country Oldtimer You have your export markets to loose are you willing to do that?

What countries do we have an open trade market with? One of the problems that has held up negotiations with some of these countries has been the comingling of Canadian beef....

Anwer me one question there Tam-- If Canada is so confident of their beef--why are Canuck ranchers organizations fighting so hard to keep people from knowing they are buying Canadian beef? Why are they afraid to tell folks the truth :???:

You ain't afraid of the truth are you there Tammy-- afraid to stand on your own two feet and get off your US cattlemen neighbors shirttails :???:

More distracting from my questions Oldtimer with your shirttail crap!!!!
Just answer my question what was protecting you and your herd from all those Canadian cattle that were imported into the US between 1993 qnd 2003 when we first found the effects of our 1993 UK imported cow? And if it was protecting you and eradicating your own BSE then why can't it do it NOW???? Answer the questions and stop diverting!!!!!!

Tam-- according to the scientists your disease has been/is only manifesting itself at its full height now and in the last couple years--- the reason you are getting a larger number of POST feedban positives now and positives as young as 4 years old...Our feedban apparently luckily worked for us- so far- but that same type feedban did not for Canadians-- and both your CFIA which instituted tighter restrictions this year and the OIE believe the tighter restrictions are needed....

But why should we take the risk of importing this Type I BSE--which we have not yet found originating in our country-- when the US cattleman has nothing to gain :???: We've already spent 13 years building your cattle industry for you- which we in return got slapped in the face with your protectionism and unwillingness to free trade-which your cattle organizations are trying to do again by telling us how we can or cannot merchandise products in OUR country :roll: - so I can easily see why US cattlemen think we should choose on the side of safety instead of the multinationals pocketbooks....

 

[HAY MAKER]

Tell us Haymaker if your US feedban was fully complied to and eradicated BSE in the US like you and Oldtimer claim, then just how much better was the USDA to enforce it? Sounds like you should be congratulating them not ragging on their screw ups!!!


And Do us all a favor and read the GOA report on the US feedban compliance will you!! Then do a google search on recalled contaminated ruminant feed in the US. Let's see who is refusing to comply.

You are talkin mighty big tonite for such a short legged lil devil,especially after posting that peta propaganda.............good luck

So posting something that your beloved R-CALF has been trying to prove in a Federal Count of Law is now posting PETA Propaganda is it.

:shock: Come on Haymaker you can do better than that to divert the topic. If you can't, just answer the question what was protecting the US cattle herd from the threat of BSE while you were openly importing from not just Canada but other BSE effected countries before they actuallly found they had BSE??

NO the post I was refering to was the fruit cake Marsh Bull Sheist..............good luck

PS some of the questions you ask are kinda like me asking you............what are you going to do Miss Tam if one day you decide to hook up a shetland pony to your little minature stagecoach and on your trek to Montana your little pony spooks,you fall off and skin your fat ash ?

 

[HAY MAKER]

I would like Haymaker, Oldtimer and Sandhusker to explain something.

If open trade with Canada prior to May 2003 never resulted in any US cattle becoming infected from the BSE strain that Canada found ie the US strain was not imported from Canada . Then what makes you think your herd will be infected now that we know and even more firewalls have been implemented on both sides of the border?

But remember-- one from Canada showed up testing positive at one of our slaughter houses-- costing the US cattle industry Billions $.....With the 26 fold increased risk of the cattle in Canada, this could occur again.....

That along with the fact that until we get M-COOL implemented- the importing and comingling of the higher risk cattle/beef will negatively affect our domestic demand....

Its not worth taking the risk......The US stands nothing to gain and all to lose...

Wrong what cost you billions is the fact that the OIE told you, you could not consider her in isolation of your domestic herd because of over a hundred years of OPEN TRADE.

Funny thing is after all those years of open trade with a country about to find BSE you never found more than one imported case or any effects from any other Canadian cow.

now stop diverting the topic and answer why your system was able to protect your herd from all those years of open trade but for some reason it can't now?

Telling your export markets beef coming from a BSE effected country is unsafe is not a smart thing to do when those trading partners believe you are a BSE effected country Oldtimer You have your export markets to loose are you willing to do that?

Wrong again Miss Tam,what has cost the US cattle man billions as you put it,is the fact OIE proved they were bought and paid for by the AMI,now you explain to us how a country with numerous BSE cases with a tenth the cattle,can be classified like the USA.
Our export markets are'nt stupid,they know as long as we continue this open border policy with canada we become one and the same.
I say the border stays clamped tight until you accept responsibility for your actions and remedy them,some of our export customers have already indicated they will not accept beef from the US as long as its being comingled with canada,M Cool will fix that................good luck

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, "Funny thing is after all those years of open trade with a country about to find BSE you never found more than one imported case or any effects from any other Canadian cow. "

Wouldn't the obvious hypotheses be a more recent introduction rather than during all those "years" you talk about? If you just stop and think for a bit, it's amazing at what you can figure out.

What I think is funny, and revealing, is you have this "years and years of trade" notion that says we should have exactly what you have and then you toss out that Marsh story insinuating that we've had BSE here for years and years (since the 70s?) - and you didn't connect the dots and realize that would mean a much greater problem in Canada as well. You're just all over the spectrum with no rhyme nor reason.

 

[QUESTION]

Ok 3 amigos answer these questions or shut up since you have all the amswers. IF Type 1 BSE is so out of control in canada since 1993 when the border was still open, how come only 1 imported cow was detected in the US with this strain of BSE? Should there not have been thousands found? So if all these were missed and their MBM was fed to other cattle how come no other animals were infected as this is the method of infectivity thru out the rest of the world, or do infective agents behave differently on US soil for some reason you guys can explain? The youngest canadian BSE positive cow a Mb cow was found to have the same stain of BSE as US indigenouse animal unlike all the rest of cases of BSE in canada where did it come from? as the 3 amigos say canada has a different strain of BSE than the US. Where did the infective material come from we don't have that strain anywhere else in canada? Infected MBM from The US just makes sense that means you guys have missed at least one, how MANY more are there? It also means your feedban is a not working. If you guys would get your heads out of the sand you would realizes the US is in the same situatuion as canada when talking about BSE. The reason foreign markets are closed fully or partially to US beef is that there are indeginouse cases of bse in the US that cannot be traced to canada or even a herd of origin within the US. So quit blaming losses on Canada . It exposes to the world the fact that the US is not being transparent when it comes to the true numbers of BSE positives in the US. And now complaining about the OIE which is run by a american the rules were changed by him or the US would not be able to export beef for 6 years after the last positive last year. So don't complain about the OIE as the US would not have been able to export and it would have been a moot point. You guys want to have your cake and eat it too sorry but that is impossible. Lets not even mention all the show jocks feeding melatonin to cattle to get better hair on them oh wait feeding cow brains directly to cows that isn't a feedban violation :roll: your rules aren't being followed they are being ignored it is not wreckless it is neglegent.

 

[Tam]

You are talkin mighty big tonite for such a short legged lil devil,especially after posting that peta propaganda.............good luck

So posting something that your beloved R-CALF has been trying to prove in a Federal Count of Law is now posting PETA Propaganda is it.

:shock: Come on Haymaker you can do better than that to divert the topic. If you can't, just answer the question what was protecting the US cattle herd from the threat of BSE while you were openly importing from not just Canada but other BSE effected countries before they actuallly found they had BSE??

NO the post I was refering to was the fruit cake Marsh Bull Sheist..............good luck

PS some of the questions you ask are kinda like me asking you............what are you going to do Miss Tam if one day you decide to hook up a shetland pony to your little minature stagecoach and on your trek to Montana your little pony spooks,you fall off and skin your fat ash ?

Well when you quote a part of a persons original post that is usually the part you are talking about Haymaker. And since you quoted the great way to sell beef part of my post to you I would have to think that was the post you were talking about.
And it sure is funny how you and Oldtimer will believe any crap that comes out about Canada and our BSE scientific based or not but when someone posts a twenty year old Scientific prediction that was right on the money about the US and their BSE problem it's pure BULL SHEIST


PS. More diversion Haymaker, the answer to your question, first don't you remember the Deadwood pictures my ash isn't fat :wink: but I would probably get up dust myself off and take a look at the damage, repair it and GET ON WITH LIFE. I wouldn't roll all my hard work into the coulee, shoot the stetland pony and stand there kicking at the dirt bitching until someone came along to give me a ride home.
They say what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Kind of like BSE and the Canadian Beef industry We had some trouble, but we picked our asses up off the ground and did something about it and we are trying to get on with life.
Now answer my question what was protecting the US herd from all those years of open trading that can't protect you now?

 

[Tam]

But remember-- one from Canada showed up testing positive at one of our slaughter houses-- costing the US cattle industry Billions $.....With the 26 fold increased risk of the cattle in Canada, this could occur again.....

That along with the fact that until we get M-COOL implemented- the importing and comingling of the higher risk cattle/beef will negatively affect our domestic demand....

Its not worth taking the risk......The US stands nothing to gain and all to lose...

Wrong what cost you billions is the fact that the OIE told you, you could not consider her in isolation of your domestic herd because of over a hundred years of OPEN TRADE.

Funny thing is after all those years of open trade with a country about to find BSE you never found more than one imported case or any effects from any other Canadian cow.

now stop diverting the topic and answer why your system was able to protect your herd from all those years of open trade but for some reason it can't now?

Telling your export markets beef coming from a BSE effected country is unsafe is not a smart thing to do when those trading partners believe you are a BSE effected country Oldtimer You have your export markets to loose are you willing to do that?

Wrong again Miss Tam,what has cost the US cattle man billions as you put it,is the fact OIE proved they were bought and paid for by the AMI,now you explain to us how a country with numerous BSE cases with a tenth the cattle,can be classified like the USA.
Our export markets are'nt stupid,they know as long as we continue this open border policy with canada we become one and the same.
I say the border stays clamped tight until you accept responsibility for your actions and remedy them,some of our export customers have already indicated they will not accept beef from the US as long as its being comingled with canada,M Cool will fix that................good luck

So the AMI couldn't buy you a better rating than the one Canada is in? Blaming Canada again Haymaker do you really think you would not have been ban from exporting when the Washington cow was found in your FOOD CHAIN? Add to that you found the Texas and Alabama cows that proved Marsh's twenty year old scenitific prediction was RIGHT you had Atypical BSE in the US. I bet those two failed investigations endeared you with your trading partners didn't they? No your export markets are not stupid, Credibility and trust is what they are looking for and that is not what they are getting from the US. By the way were those Canadian bone fragments or US bone fragments that you exported? Blaming your export market problems on Canada is what you do best but has not fixed your industry problems in the past and it is not going to now. Accept responsibility for the US born and fed Industry problems and STOP BLAMING CANADA

 

[Sandhusker]

Q, "IF Type 1 BSE is so out of control in canada since 1993 when the border was still open...."

You can quit right there. Who said that? I didn't cotton to Tam putting words in my mouth....

As far as your comment on having our cake; Isn't that what you're doing when you critisize our feed ban, but then condemn those that say it is foolish to import potential BSE carrying animals because they can fall through that same ban? NONE of you can show how we could import your cattle and be assured we wouldn't be spreading the disease - yet you keep on talking..... :roll:

 

[QUESTION]

Oh i hit a nerve SanH . You can't have it both ways and someone called you on it now you are avoiding the questions or do you think there is no bse in canada. I must be on the right track. If there is so much bse floating around on the hoof in canada that made it to the US prior to 2003 where are all the positives. As bovine MBM is being fed to cattle in the US. Where are all the typical BSE cases that were spawned by infected canadian cows killed, processed and fed as mbm prior to 2003 in the US? Prove how many positives will be sent down to the US when the border reopens. the problem here is you have to find a positive before you can say there are more. And you can't find more unless you open the border and a animal that is positive is sent down and tested and then found positive. I know the 3 amigos find it alot easier to make unsubstanciated allegations run aroung in circles peeing in the air and saying it is raining salt water with the rest of the cult when leo the leeader predictes the coming of the apocalypse. The problem is the same as with any profit that is false. They want money then they will tell you what to think. Really get on with it drink the koolaide. Condem the canadian goverment for making changes to satisfy the rest of the world when you want the rest of the world to change for the US. GARJ. How do you know BSE isn't spreading right now in the US prove to me it is simple you can't. what you are asking for is a double standard just like you want the world to recognize that canada and the US both have BSE but it isn't as bad in the US :roll: I thought someone putting words in your mouth is something you would be used to by now after all the r-crap you spout. Get in the pen and follow the others little mindless r-sheep sandH and don't dare stray or the big bad canadians will come and get you. :lol2: As for having your cake and eat it too i was refering to the fact you have indegenouse cases of BSE in the US unless you want to deny your goverment found them and still you want unfettered acess to foreign export makets like korea and japan without proving that you are sending meat from animals free of BSE and then when these countries allow boneless cuts from the US , US exporters send cuts of beef with bones and complain. It is this simple you cannot force other countries to do what you want without other repercussions.