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SAV

I have got some very good cattle from SAV the past 10 years.
Quality cattle super.

On this years promotion side Justin posted the top bull sold to Herbeser
at Falls City Neb bout lot 275 for somewhere between 270 to 277 thousandd I posted they bought another bull total adverstised selling price is over 300,000 averaging 150,000 per bull. Herbster is less than a hour drive from the Angus Hall just west of I-29.

I really feel sorry for the fellow that bought the second top seller for 230.000. not many people will remember that name....lol

For a fact Kelly hopes these checks clear. IF they were really wrote
 
I've got one more point or question on the creep feeding deal then I'll let it go. If people creep feed heifer calves along with their bull calves, doesn't this run the risk of getting the heifers too fat and depositing fat in the udders? I've always heard that will decrease the females ability to milk in the future. It would be interesting to see the weaning info for the SAV herd on the heifers.
 
Big Swede said:
I've got one more point or question on the creep feeding deal then I'll let it go. If people creep feed heifer calves along with their bull calves, doesn't this run the risk of getting the heifers too fat and depositing fat in the udders? I've always heard that will decrease the females ability to milk in the future. It would be interesting to see the weaning info for the SAV herd on the heifers.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what creep and fat does to udders and milk production-- but I've long said I'm no fan of creep (on bulls or heifers) or feeding either any amount of grain... Causes too many longterm problems...

My heifers only see grain for two or three weeks when they are lotted at weaning time-- and that is only about 1/2 a coffee can apiece of the cheapest grain I have/can get my hands on-hand carried out-just to quiet them down and get them used to grain and people walking thru them... Then they go out with the cows on pasture and/or hay depending on the winter...

Last year besides the heifers we kept- my son bought some heifers from Cole Creek Angus...Because of the enviroment they had that year--Those heifers were probably in the toughest shape anyone had seen of the Cole Creek heifers....

BUT- everyone of those heifers bred up (and now look great) and everyone of the dozen Prime Time D806/Bannon of Wye/Legacy 726T heifers I kept bred up....
And now in driving thru the cows/heifers again this spring all these heifers look like they must have bred up right after I turned out the bull-- and are looking awful calvy...I think the Cole Creeks may be the first to calve (altho I know D806 is known for short gestations :???: )....
And this is the year with our record snow/winter I almost wish they'd missed a cycle.... :wink:

An old timer years ago told me that you got better cycling and breed up on heifers in fair/good condition that were gaining off grass in June when you turned the bulls out- than you did with a bunch of winter lotted fat grainfed heifers that actually were losing condition when they had to survive only on grass...
 
OK then if he doesn't creep feed his heifers why does he creep feed his bulls? The only reason I can see is for the huge and unrealistic weaning weight numbers that they post. Correct me if I'm wrong. Is it just for the numbers game or is there a really good reason for getting your bulls that fat before weaning. How good are the cows, what kind of job could they do without the grain. Maybe that's the point, they might look pretty average without it?

I'm not just calling out SAV, I'm asking all registered breeders of all breeds.
 
Big Swede said:
OK then if he doesn't creep feed his heifers why does he creep feed his bulls? The only reason I can see is for the huge and unrealistic weaning weight numbers that they post. Correct me if I'm wrong. Is it just for the numbers game or is there a really good reason for getting your bulls that fat before weaning. How good are the cows, what kind of job could they do without the grain. Maybe that's the point, they might look pretty average without it?

I'm not just calling out SAV, I'm asking all registered breeders of all breeds.
Click to expand...

You just hit the nail on the head Big Swede-- everyone is looking for that outlier bull that will have a birth weight of 75Lbs (or less), weaning weight of 1000+, and yearling weight of 1500-1600+ -- and it seems like in the chase to be better then everyone else-- the dollar folks and dream breeders flock to it.....

Doesn't seem to matter anymore if it can only do one semen squirt in its lifetime (raise the price on the semen) or couldn't walk across a quarter section pasture- or the few embryo transplant heifers they got are worthless mamma cow-- its still got to be great because the numbers say so :roll: :wink:
 
Take a look at the pedigree's more a multiplier than a breeder but someone is drinking the koolaid.
 
Denny said:
Take a look at the pedigree's more a multiplier than a breeder but someone is drinking the koolaid.
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When I looked at the pedigees I saw "SAV" prefix on the top and bottom side of the pedigree, that says breeder to me.
 
here are the top sellers and buyers

http://www.angus.org/angusproductions/SaleReportsdtl.aspx?eid=DgAAAFUr3iMEQSKmu63w4IFx8hE%3d&il=DgAAAEQrujU5dwVoL18j9OafTcE%3d
 
Oldtimer said:
Big Swede said:
OK then if he doesn't creep feed his heifers why does he creep feed his bulls? The only reason I can see is for the huge and unrealistic weaning weight numbers that they post. Correct me if I'm wrong. Is it just for the numbers game or is there a really good reason for getting your bulls that fat before weaning. How good are the cows, what kind of job could they do without the grain. Maybe that's the point, they might look pretty average without it?

I'm not just calling out SAV, I'm asking all registered breeders of all breeds.
Click to expand...

You just hit the nail on the head Big Swede-- everyone is looking for that outlier bull that will have a birth weight of 75Lbs (or less), weaning weight of 1000+, and yearling weight of 1500-1600+ -- and it seems like in the chase to be better then everyone else-- the dollar folks and dream breeders flock to it.....

Doesn't seem to matter anymore if it can only do one semen squirt in its lifetime (raise the price on the semen) or couldn't walk across a quarter section pasture- or the few embryo transplant heifers they got are worthless mamma cow-- its still got to be great because the numbers say so :roll: :wink:
Click to expand...

Well here it goes congratulations to Kelly for having another great sale. I am quite certain that he is not forcing all those buyers to purchase bulls from him. God bless America for our freedom and the right to purchase bulls from any program we want.

Big Swede as far as creep feed that is also a personal choice for all of us.
We do not creep feed ours but we will tell you that it is a lot easier to wean a calf that knows how to eat rather than teaching them how to eat.
So that being said he may creep feed to keep them healthier and less stress at weaning.

As far as high 205 and 365 day weights most people know that they aren't going to reach that. They are adjusted for putting every calf on the same day of age. Birth date and cow age are in the formula for the adjustment.

Now here are some questions for you:
What is an acceptable backfat for you buying bulls? (I haven't heard any mention of what some of these cattle were carrying for carcass)

How much grain is too much in your opinion?

What Mega cal ration should all of us be on who raise bulls?

If there is a bull that is out gaining the rest of his contemporary group by a pound a day would you discount him and not use him? and if so how our seed stock suppliers suppose to prevent that? (this includes grass tests or feedlot tests)

Would you buy bulls on RFI data?


Since Kelly always seems to be mentioned have you ever visited with the man or walked into his cow herd?

I would love to go there someday, but I have seen the man judge cattle at a couple of junior shows and I was impressed with how much time, patience and consideration he shows for the next generation of cattle producers.

Lets face the facts Kelly works his but off Marketing cattle. If you say everybody is drinking the koolaid open up your own lemonaid stand and start selling your own.

lazy ace
 
Lazy ace

I prefer my bulls to have no grain as I am strictly grassfed operation. I will say that 004 daughters have been working hard in my operation. I have been doing a limited amount of line breeding with 004 or descendants and having good luck.
 
Their bulls and genetics have performed well on the ranches of buyers from the past. Marketing is good, but they have also earned much of that reputation.


Pretty much have to agree with LazyAce.
 
Great post Lazy Ace. I understand your comment about creep feeding but I would guess for any breeder that creep feeds bulls those feeders go out there in May or June. I see that across the fence, my neighbors raise bulls.

Feeding bulls: I custom feed about 60 head a year and I feed mine a 43 megacal ration through the coldest months and then back them down to a 40 megacal ration about this time of year. That may even be too much grain. They average just over 2#/day. I'm no expert but I've been to bull sales where the bulls could have been slaughtered the next day. They sure look pretty but I also know those bulls fell out pretty fast with feet problems.

Like I said earlier, I'm not knocking Kelly Schaff, I don't even know the man. I just have an issue with 900# plus 205 day weights no matter where they come from. I'm not interested in opening my own lemonaide stand either. :wink: If those bulls are working for his customers I'm happy for everyone involved.
 

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