I have one major hang up and I can't seem to find out what is wrong. When I turn the fly wheel, it runs everything like it should. I trip the level to make a knot and start turning the fly wheel again. All that happens is the needles basically just seem to fall. The needles go up into the bale case so the plunger stops then stop the plunger as I turn the fly wheel and nothing happens to the knotters as I turn it. I can then turn the smaller fly wheel deal that is on the knotter shaft and that runs all the knotter and needle stuff like it should, but they aren't doing it together. I went out and ran some windrows through it and all it did was make flakes.....no knotter action. I didn't trip the lever out there....I figured it would just shear the fly wheel shear bolt because it stops it while hand turning. Any ideas? Probably hard to tell through the internet. Maybe something to do with that clutch ring cam? I did find a half moon looking little piece of metal under the baler that my magnet picked up while running it over the ground. I have no idea where it came from.
taking off a knotter assembly on a 14t square baler
- Thread starter R A
- Start date
leanin' H said:This thread is awesome!A bunch of crazy ranchers trying act like expert farmers while helping a fellow rancher fix his equipment using technical words like "Snap ring deally"(Gcreek)!! :lol: I know you guys know your stuff and i am glad RA has your experience and wisdom. And mostly i am glad to know you all, cause you never cease to make me smile. Good luck with your baler RA. I don't have a baler!
That's what happens on the world smallest ranch. I can't afford fancy equipment like you have buddy! :wink: Carry on with the repairs and the repair directions! :lol: :wink:
I am bound and determined to get this thing working right, leanin' H....lol. Wait until I am the only one attending my rope 'em and drag 'em to the fire branding and "I" will seal the title of the world's smallest ranch for the moment.
Thanks for the good luck, I need it! I have already learned a ton from everyone on here and appreciate it big time! I've been catching neighbors as I can and asking them about square balers. Over 1,334,567,876,542,222,543,123 combined baling years experience and not a one has even ever timed a baler or messed with a knotter.....lol. So they say. Maybe if you know something about balers, you just play dumb....lol.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
I was a New Holland man in my day so i can help you with specifics about a 14T but if you have a extra Half moon key you have a shaft turning inside something not doing it's job.
Even though I never run a 14t i have 2 sitting at the town place in various stages of stripped that my Dad bought at an auction for some unknown reason and the neighbors have taken most of the good stuff off them. :?
Even though I never run a 14t i have 2 sitting at the town place in various stages of stripped that my Dad bought at an auction for some unknown reason and the neighbors have taken most of the good stuff off them. :?
Big Muddy rancher said:
Thanks! I haven't been to town to get any diagrams of anything yet. Maybe they will show something on that piece. It does resemble the keeper deals under all the things on the knotter gear shaft as far as length, color and the same amount of grease it had on it...just half mooned shape....now that you say that. Embarrassed to say, but that shaft the knotters sits on is pretty dang easy to get off now....I'll take it all off tomorrow and look the pieces over harder.
I know this isn't your baler, nor your issues, but its a link to a site where you can ask lots of questions, and they speak Ranchereze too.
http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=implment&th=215169
They have been pretty helpful on both my baler crisis, and my tractor repair work.
http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=implment&th=215169
They have been pretty helpful on both my baler crisis, and my tractor repair work.
RA I dont know where to start, except keep in mind that these 14t's are not rocket science and once you figure out what is going on its all going to click!
I was in your shoes 2 years ago, I have 2 14ts both bought from auctions but both work fairly well. If you need more info on how these things work, my suggestion first would go to tractorbynet and do a search on 14t's in the ag section forum. (mulitple posts on how thses things are suppose to work) I know cause I asked a bunch of questions and their is a gentlemen on there that helped me out alot. he even youtubed how the knotters work. So start their he might even have the manual uploaded so you could get it uploaded.
You might even youtube how a square baler works I think their is a older new holland video that shows how it works which is almost identical to the JD's balers. Parts: definately ebay! or used parts places search on line.
Okay next if you can make a youtube video on what is going on with your baler it will be easier to get help. I know thats a pain in the you know what but it will be worth it! Good luck ask, question!
By the way I am from ohio, And I can not tell you and others on this forum how much I can appreciate your pictures and stories!!!
I was in your shoes 2 years ago, I have 2 14ts both bought from auctions but both work fairly well. If you need more info on how these things work, my suggestion first would go to tractorbynet and do a search on 14t's in the ag section forum. (mulitple posts on how thses things are suppose to work) I know cause I asked a bunch of questions and their is a gentlemen on there that helped me out alot. he even youtubed how the knotters work. So start their he might even have the manual uploaded so you could get it uploaded.
You might even youtube how a square baler works I think their is a older new holland video that shows how it works which is almost identical to the JD's balers. Parts: definately ebay! or used parts places search on line.
Okay next if you can make a youtube video on what is going on with your baler it will be easier to get help. I know thats a pain in the you know what but it will be worth it! Good luck ask, question!
By the way I am from ohio, And I can not tell you and others on this forum how much I can appreciate your pictures and stories!!!
cowman52
Well-known member
If I understand and the knotters are not turning at all-the cam has a roller in it and when triggered it let's the loggers turn. There is a spring in it and may not be holding the roller against the dog on the cam to turn the knotters . The second thing are the needles traveling their complete cycle? They need to come through the knotter frame by 3 inches or so-far enough to lay the string in the twine holder.
There can be wear in the cam, a broken springing the cam, or roller stuck or a flat spot on it . there are 2 half moon keys 1 under each knotter drive sprocket. They have been known to besheared off or just gone.
There can be wear in the cam, a broken springing the cam, or roller stuck or a flat spot on it . there are 2 half moon keys 1 under each knotter drive sprocket. They have been known to besheared off or just gone.
LazyWP said:
Thanks, LazyWP! I will check it out!
BryanM said:
Thanks, BryanM! I appreciate your help! I'll check this stuff out. I believe I'll be just messin' with knotters by tomorrow night!.....hopefully! I can't wait until I have a couple 2 or 3 around. I am finding working on this thing to be a lot of fun! Yeah, I can make up some videos easy enough. I think I have my main problem fixed now, but will do on the next one if needed for sure!
Thanks for looking at my pictures! I love looking at everyone's pictures also, and have learned a ton of things that I apply to my operation from just the pictures alone....then the written stuff on top of it....GOOD STUFF!
cowman52 said:
Thanks, cowman52! Yeah, I dropped a half moon key out of the top drive sprocket and didn't know it. I took that apart, but now can't find the half moon key
So headed to town tomorrow for supplies. Yes the needles are making their complete cycle....IF, I turn the small flywheel that is attached to the knotter shaft....NOT if I am turning the main flywheel and have tripped the knotter lever. I'm hoping this half moon key remedies everything. It makes sense to me that it will. There is enough friction on that sprocket and shaft to turn the cam not engaged to turn the knotter shaft, but when engaged it just sits there and spins, so the knotter shaft only moves when I move it. So it has to be my problem, maybe not...lol. I wasn't aware of the second half moon key and will look for it tomorrow for sure! I appreciate you helping and explaining this stuff! I'll check the spring and roller inside the cam again tomorrow to make sure all is well and the cam itself for wear. Thanks again! I can taste just maybe having tieing knot troubles! Feels good to just maybe to be down to that.... cowman52
Well-known member
Deere baler school had a bale case , a crank attached to the wheel you are talking about, Is should take about 30 to 40 pounds to pull it through the cycle. The brake on the needles is about 2/3 of that.
Will bet the key missing is gonna fix your problem. The timing. May still be off but you are on the right track. It will take you several tries to get the roller and cam just right, so leave the master link keepers out till you run it through by hand several times, other wise it is always on the bottom.
All Deere balers use the same measurements for timing, wire or string so a new op manual will give them to you and I think you can download ???
Will bet the key missing is gonna fix your problem. The timing. May still be off but you are on the right track. It will take you several tries to get the roller and cam just right, so leave the master link keepers out till you run it through by hand several times, other wise it is always on the bottom.
All Deere balers use the same measurements for timing, wire or string so a new op manual will give them to you and I think you can download ???
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Even the holes in the needles can be worn so that they need building up with bronze brazing rod and torch. Lots of little things and tricks the old boys used to keep them running.
cowman52 said:
More good stuff, cowman52...I appreciate it!
I'll test how much pressure it takes to turn that wheel. Good thing you mentioned that, because I loosed that needle brake yesterday to see if that helped any before knowing about the missing half moon key, and forgot to tighten it back. It has got to be way to loose right now. I'm guessing I can hook up a rope and use my fish scales to get the pounds of pull right like I have been using the scales for twine and bill hook tension??? They go to 50lbs. ....and I think I can attach it to the arm that connects it and the needles, where it meets the wheel and turn it.
Will do on keeping the keepers off the chains until I am happy with everything....good idea. The knotter drive chain really needs replaced. It has a bad link that working it over in the vice and spraying a ton, won't hardly get it loosened...and is loose overall. I'm replacing it this morning. Replacing all chains really, they are shot and have lots of play.
I'll check out the manuals at the John Deere place this morning and see what I can find on the internet. Thanks!
Big Muddy rancher said:Even the holes in the needles can be worn so that they need building up with bronze brazing rod and torch. Lots of little things and tricks the old boys used to keep them running.
I'll watch for that! Thanks, Big Muddy rancher! Hopefully I can learn the tricks like that along the way here as I bale in the years to come and keep it going...if I get this thing going.
I got a good rain last night...no hay down....so a good day to hopefully iron this baler out. I have a list of stuff to do to it and headed to town for supplies.
Hopefully I get it going before I have a nervous breakdown and am seen running down I-35 from the invisible fire in nothing but my underwear and a helmet on like Ricky Bobby in Talladega Nights....
Hopefully I get it going before I have a nervous breakdown and am seen running down I-35 from the invisible fire in nothing but my underwear and a helmet on like Ricky Bobby in Talladega Nights....
katrina
Well-known member
Hells Bells fellas I wanted to see more pictures than that!!! Arn't we baling yet? LOL.... :roll:
katrina said:
lol...I posted that picture before I seen the you wanted to see pictures post
No bales yet, but I am layin' down hay today. Hopefully will have bales in the field tomorrow evening if it is dry enough. I'll post pictures burnt
Well-known member
R A said:katrina said:
lol...I posted that picture before I seen the you wanted to see pictures post
Well hurry up and dry it already cuz Katrina wants to see action! Mind you if it was her slinging the bales she'd maybe not be quite so keen. :lol:
Oh I see, she's volunteering to drive!
katrina
Well-known member
burnt said:R A said:katrina said:
lol...I posted that picture before I seen the you wanted to see pictures post
Well hurry up and dry it already cuz Katrina wants to see action! Mind you if it was her slinging the bales she'd maybe not be quite so keen. :lol:
Oh I see, she's volunteering to drive!
No kidding... I baled 230ish acres one nite(whitch is a whole nother story..... My hubby was the raker.) and got 55 bales, so I'm going into DTs...
burnt
Well-known member
katrina said:burnt said:R A said:lol...I posted that picture before I seen the you wanted to see pictures post
Well hurry up and dry it already cuz Katrina wants to see action! Mind you if it was her slinging the bales she'd maybe not be quite so keen. :lol:
Oh I see, she's volunteering to drive!
No kidding... I baled 230ish acres one nite(whitch is a whole nother story..... My hubby was the raker.) and got 55 bales, so I'm going into DTs...
Well you must be pretty good and committed too! But a little hay is still better than none. Our hay crop is really short and thin this year from all the heavy frost it got after our early warm - no make that HOT - spell in March.
There are lots of baler drivers - good baler drivers are in considerably shorter supply. A funny story about the neighbor just down the road - he had a young lad driving the tractor and baler while he stood on the wagon and stacked them off the bale chute.
Seems the knotter made trouble and he had a broken bale or two and was waving and yelling for the kid to stop. Well, with the cab windows all closed (what good is air conditioning otherwise?) and the radio playin' toons, the kid did not see or hear his frantic pleas to "STOP!"
Until the kid heard something clang off the side of the cab.
The old guy on the wagon got so mad that he whipped his bale hook at the tractor and about scared the crap out of the kid when he clanged it off the corner of the tractor cab.
My luck and I'd be seeing how small a pail it takes to hold the back window of a tractor . . . :lol: :lol: :lol: