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The Apocalypse

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Gutless liberal lovers eh. This coming from a protectionist Rcalf member.

Isn't George all for FREE TRADE.

So Fox news will educate us will it. What if some of us rarely watch the news and form our opinions from other sources.

Read an article in Time magazine. Is that okay Robert? The article was basically an interview with young man in Iraq who plans to strap on the belt. He was a University student who had little use for any religous crap. On day while at some protest, probably to ask (in this case) that Americans leave and let Iraq look after Iraq. Things got out of hand and the soldiers gunned down a number of students including his freinds. He vowed to fight from that day on, and also said he will strap on the belt when his time comes. Sorry I can't recall the article in detail, but if you want to, you can get the drift.

I will not argue that the concept of war with civilians as targets is anything but barbaric. But are these people not human first? At least some of them. All humans follow leaders, and I should think the goal of America would be to root out these leaders. IF they feel these leaders are the cause of 9 11 and such. But invading Iraq? I'll ask you again Robert, at the risk of being labeled anti American of whatever other garbage you throw at me. - "Is it helping to occupy Iraq?"

I love freedom as well, and thank my forefathers as much as you do for allowing me that. And personally, I really enjoyed a good scrap when I was younger, and have throw a few haymakers since then as well. I ain't no woosy liberal, but I do believe civility applies to more than American Republicans alone.

Here's one for ya

"Consciously motivated organanizational behaviour, ethically submissive to the good in yourself and ultimately respectful of nature."

Some borrowed words and some of my own, written after a trip to the nuthouse where I truely learned respect for all races and all levels of intellect in people.

Follow Fox if you like, there are more ways to learn about humanity than TV.
 
Randy,

The media focuses entirely on the Weapons of Mass Destruction issue. Know why? Because it's the perfect diversion from all the other justifications for invading Iraq.

As Rudy put it, WMD was only one of 12 major justifications for invading Iraq.

Has it helped? You bet it has helped. Look at the Iraqi voter turnout!

Do you actually think those people would be better off working for Saddam's regime and living in fear???

What the media quotes comes from the vocal minority, not the silent majority.

Saddam was a dictator and slaughtered literally thousands. For cying out loud what more justification do we need than the fact that he invaded Kuwait?

The man needed to be taken down and the U.S. is tracking down the leaders of these terrorists networks. The list of those captured continues to grow.

WAR IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE LIVES TAKEN, IT'S ABOUT THE LIVES SAVED!

Something candleburners will never figure out.



~SH~
 
Words well spoken, Randy. I have to wonder how much we really get to know what all humanity is about if we don't have the need or the guts to venture outside of our own, comfortable, little world.
 
The press and the politicians pretty much all have an agenda or a bias...I think the only people you can truly believe are the hometown boys that have been over there doing the job and come back home...And from them all I hear are the accomplishments they have made and good they feel they have done- most feel that they are doing a needed job and the results have been worth the costs...Thats good enough for me....
 
this whole Iraq problem can be put into perspective very simply....... by jumping in and taking out Saddam, we halted his terror. The world will now never know his true potential of atrocities. In comparison, what if the USA had entered WWII at the onset and cut off Hitler before he killed all the Jews??

I detest how liberals stand on a pile of dead soldiers to spill their retoric, if they want to make the world a better place send them over to Iraq or Afganistan and be peacful beatnick a-holes all they want.
 
First, Randy, I didn't mean the gutless liberal comment to you personally.

I put Time in the same category as CBS and Dan Rather.

Randy: "Is it helping to occupy Iraq?"

We, nor any of the other countries with troops in Iraq, are there to 'occupy'...but I'll answer your question anyway. Yes, anytime you give a sovereign people the ability to govern themselves in a free society it is helping those people. The death blow to these extremist is freedom. I have friends in Iraq and what you see on TV and read in Time isn't the whole truth...not even close.

Randy: "This coming from a protectionist Rcalf member.
Isn't George all for FREE TRADE."

Wouldn't it be the honest thing to label Canadian beef as 'Canadian Beef'?
 
Sure label it if you like Robert. I don't have a problem with that. Building up that America vs. Canada crap is what I don't like though.

I'd like to reply to Sh's theory about saving lives in Iraq. Don't the folks in Africa rate. It wouldn't take anywhere near the fire power or money to take out the dictators and terminators in Africa. What no oil there?

Beatnic a holes, candle burners, etc. etc. The world is full of extremists on both sides. The ones I hate are the ones who use God to justify what they do. Guess what - God is God to all of you who use that excuse. God is God, in the language of the scum bag terrorists as well.

Keep it simple in your minds boys. Keep it simple. Good guys bad guys. Heros and villans. Thats the way to get ahead.

Ya Oltimer thank goodness for those guys over there fighting for you and your freedom, and me and mine, if you believe that is truely what they are fighting for.

Have fun cutting me down, but I guarantee any one of you that if we were truely fighting together for freedom of our society, you would have to look pretty hard to find a better trench mate.

Or call me more names ya bunch of Bush Nazi's.
 
rkaiser said:
Sure label it if you like Robert. I don't have a problem with that. Building up that America vs. Canada crap is what I don't like though.

I'd like to reply to Sh's theory about saving lives in Iraq. Don't the folks in Africa rate. It wouldn't take anywhere near the fire power or money to take out the dictators and terminators in Africa. What no oil there?

Beatnic a holes, candle burners, etc. etc. The world is full of extremists on both sides. The ones I hate are the ones who use God to justify what they do. Guess what - God is God to all of you who use that excuse. God is God, in the language of the scum bag terrorists as well.

Keep it simple in your minds boys. Keep it simple. Good guys bad guys. Heros and villans. Thats the way to get ahead.

Ya Oltimer thank goodness for those guys over there fighting for you and your freedom, and me and mine, if you believe that is truely what they are fighting for.

Have fun cutting me down, but I guarantee any one of you that if we were truely fighting together for freedom of our society, you would have to look pretty hard to find a better trench mate.

Or call me more names ya bunch of Bush Nazi's.
Click to expand...

That's just what we are seeing here, is people following Bush just like the German people followed Hitler. They wanted to be on the side with the power. They didn't care about right or wrong, as long as they saw a benefit in it for them. I don't imagine for a second that the liberal-bashers on this board have any compassion for the Iraqi people, especially the hundreds of thousands killed because of Bush's actions.
 
fedup2 said:
I think too many of you people are watching the Communist News Network!(CNN)

You might find the following interesting. It was written by a naval officer.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a
religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked
and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright
attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most
powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this
sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25
years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then President Carter had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and down sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized
military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her
citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it exploded, it killed 63 people.
The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down
with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US
Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourned her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives was driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continued her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the
gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spread to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb exploded in a
restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives was driven into
the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 were killed and the snooze alarm was buzzing louder and louder as US interests were continually attacked.
Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro, was
hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair was singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shifted their tactics to bombing civilian airliners
when they bombed TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986, that killed 4, and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988,
killing 259. Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These were acts of war!

The wake up alarm was getting louder and louder.

The terrorists decided to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two
CIA agents were shot and killed as they entered CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists were arrested
after a rented van packed with explosives was driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people were killed and over 1000 were injured. Still this was treated as a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm was depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb exploded at a US military complex in
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb exploded only 35
yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroyed the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists were getting braver and smarter as they saw that America did not respond decisively.

They moved to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.. These attacks were planned with
precision.
They killed 224. America responded with cruise missile attacks on an empty Al Quaida training camp, and went back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12
October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded
killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but
we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from very high
officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see
exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the
National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as
a people decide enough is enough. America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever.. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues.
We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and
rolling over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "... it seems all
we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage,
politically and militarily, to address what so many who preceded him
didn't have the backbone to do, both Democrat and Republican. This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year. This is an
AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.
Click to expand...

Yes, and the freedom of everyone else in the world 'be damned'. Why is it that people like you are more than willing to sacrifice other peoples' lives so that you can live in extreme excess and comfort. America has been attacked again and again because you just don't seem to get it, you can't go around interfering in everyone's countries for your benefit, at their expense, and expect them to bow down and watch as you rape and pillage their homelands. Gawd, you guys are stupid!
 
redrover,

What part of Saddam killing thousands of innocent Iraqis fails to register in your brain?

We are killing terrorists. The same terrorists that are killing innocent Iraqi civilians every day.

KNOW WHY THE TERRORISTS ARE KILLING INNOCENT IRAQI CIVILIANS?

Because the innocents are fighting for freedom and the terrorists are fighting for dictatorship. Iraqi citizens are joining us in their fight for freedom.

We saved far more lives from Saddam's regime than we ever took.

How you can justify Saddam killing innocent Iraqi people is beyond me.

Why don't you just admit that you hate the U.S. and quit skirting the issue.


~SH~
 
Saddam was killing his own people for decades, and patriotic americans such as yourself never gave it a second thought. Now you are pretending to care? Give me a break. You're a joke.
Bush attacked Iraq simple because it was an easy target and would placate stupid voters such as youreself. The only problem is that Bush and his war-criminal buddies Cheney and Rumsfeld were so arrogant to think that there would be no opposition. So now, they, and stupid people like you are trying to justify this complete screwup.
I don't hate the US at all, but I sure don't have any use for such stupid people, you included SH. You are the perfect example of how people can be brainwashed into thinking that such moronic acts are for the good of the people you are screwing with.
And, unfortunately, the US military is not just killing terrorists, but thousands of innocent Iraqis as well. To pretend that isn't happenning is the extreme of whitewashing the facts, or outright lies. You tell me which it is that you are doing.
 
I suppose we should have just sat idly by while Saddam invaded Kuwait and turned the other cheek as he was storing up munitions and killing thousands of innocents.

Funny how he can kill thousands and that's not an issue but if the U.S. kills a few civilians while fighting the terrorists, SHAME SHAME!

You are such a hypocrite!

It's pathetic bleeding heart liberals like you that make the world a scarier place.

Go burn your candle!


~SH~
 
No, it's ignorant morons like you that make the world a scarier place. The whole world now hates you because of the stupidity of Bush and his war criminal buddies. And you insist on making it worse.
If you're so gung ho on killing terrorists, why don't you volunteer for the army and go get some? Oh, I forgot, you're a coward hiding behind your moma's skirts and your big mouth.
 
redriver, you have the right to speak your garbage about the Bush government safely in your extreme excess and comfort. If you said similar thing about the terrorist in a region in their control, they would cut your head off. Hopefully, you'll get it...but I doubt it.
 
reader (the Second) said:
Oldtimer said:
The press and the politicians pretty much all have an agenda or a bias...I think the only people you can truly believe are the hometown boys that have been over there doing the job and come back home...And from them all I hear are the accomplishments they have made and good they feel they have done- most feel that they are doing a needed job and the results have been worth the costs...Thats good enough for me....
Click to expand...

This thread looks pretty much determined by the bias each of us had coming into it...

Sitting in Washington D.C., I have to tell you that there are a lot of people in government who are not thrilled with the war in Iraq as it has played out. Their view -- Dems and Republicans alike -- is that it has created a training ground and propaganda for Islamic radicals, as well as had a high cost in civilian and military lives and has diverted resources and attention from the war on terrorism. If this had been a war to depose Sadam Hussain with a viable plan to get in and get out and leave Iraq in good shape, their views would have been different. They see it as a quagmire.

I realize it is a Catch-22. We don't want to "give in" to the terrorists which gives them a victory. Also, leaving Iraq in chaos now makes it vulnerable to becoming a terrorist state in the future. But this was not how the future was painted or envisioned by those who planned the war in March 2004 when we went in there.
Click to expand...

That's what is so unbelievably stupid, that Bush, Cheney and Bumsfelt were actually so arrogant and ignorant that they believed it wouldn't be a mess. What were they thinking? It just amazes me that the American people leave these dolts in power. Hell, they re-elected them!!!!!!
Wake up America, you're being led down the path to total destruction, economic as well as moral. If you don't change your course, and soon, you're done like dinner.
 
Whatever you say Redrover!

Your last response says more about you than I ever could.


Reader,

Why would you go in, remove Saddam and let someone else take over the reigns of terror? All you have done is create a change in leadership. You accomplished nothing to stop terror.

We are fighting a difficult war because these terrorists are willing to take their own lives to regain their control via suicide bombers just as the Japanese kamakazi (sp?) pilots of world war II.

We are still in Iraq because the Iraqi people have not developed the infrastructure yet to fight off these terrorists themselves.

We will stay until the job is finished.

I'm glad Bush has the courage to stay the course instead of listening to bleeding heart liberals like Redrover!


~SH~
 
redriver...Wake up America, you're being led down the path to total destruction, economic as well as moral. If you don't change your course, and soon, you're done like dinner.

Are you the one to be preaching morals to the USA redriver? Also who and where is this mighty power that is going to cause our total destruction? It damned sure ain't Canada.

This is about the only thing I agree on with SH. Scott is right about why we are in Iraq.
 
You keep connecting Saddam and his gang of thugs to terrorists SH. Saddam did not slam planes into the twin towers. Iraq was not a freind to Al Quida.

It is not a bad thing that a maniac like Saddam is gone. In fact I think they should have blown him out of that hole rather thna give him a hand up. What was that all about. Why can't they find that other Asshole Bin Laden?

But continuing to see the war in Iraq as a war on terrorists is wrong. Terrorists are hatching because of it, as reader says. Hate is building simply because of occupation and results of casualties. Throw in a few radical fundamentalists who see the opportunity to recruit and you have a more fertile breeding ground for terrorist activity than you had before.

Fighting a war with an enemy that needs virtually no money to function, and no ground to call home is a daunting task. Trying to fight this war conventionally as America has decided to do in Iraq will, and has backfired, as bad as the war Rcalf waged with the Cattle producers of Canada. Nobody wins, other than the money folks who sit back, watch, and cash in in the end. Cheney's company comes to mind.

I have to say that SH talked of America not owning the oil in Iraq now that they occupy the country. Of course not; but just like any other primary resource, it's not the country of origin that reaps the rewards from the product in any case. Those who direct that resource profit.

I better go light another candle I guess, it burns off the haze that clouds the vision of those that cannot see the Bush Administrations ultimate goal in Iraq, or any other part of the middle east for that matter.

Had to throw up a little bit today when the FOX NETWORK showed GW holding hands walking along with the new King of Saudi Arabia. Never see him holding hands with any African diplomats, newcomers to the EU, or God forbid, the Liberal dipshit in Ottawa.

Money and Oil, Oil and Money.
 
redriver, you just keep on pissin and moanin about the big bully USA. but I think 75% of the worlds nations could overthrow Canada in a matter of months. the only thing stopping them is you happen to be neighbors with the true world power.

take your liberal scabby butt to a military base and spill your heart out on the subject, I am sure the wives left at home tending to the house will enjoy your point of view.

your arrogance is astounding, almost French!
 

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