SJ
Well-known member
LB..."Any aerial hunting done without the permission of the landowner and without an aerial hunting permit IS a violation of the federal airborne hunting act. Period."
JW--Oh OK. Then he DID violate federal law. At least we are now clear on that.
SJ— Yes, They found him guilty on one count, it was just one mans word against another as far as whether permission was given or not. It used to be that a mans word was all you needed and that is what JJ thought he had as far as permission. When a man's word isn't worth much, you need prima facie evidence to prove it, which is a signed permission slip.
JW---Liberty, come on now! Considering the above and the fact that Mr. Cooper himself wrote a letter to the judge on JJ's behalf, and as SH explained, your pilots are permitted to operate with far more freedom that all the other private pilots in your state..........well, as I said before, it appears to me that your game dept is bending over backwards to appease the folks in your area.
SJ—This didn't just come about out of the goodness of his heart. Yes we are in a pilot program, which does give our pilot more freedom. The reason we are in this is because we have a trapper who refuses to work with certain pilots. JJ being the main one to fly or that people want and the trapper's refusal to take his calls and giving approval, it was only a matter of time until something was going to go down. Although when the trapper took the oath and put his hand on the Bible he admitted that JJ had been calling him, he had always denied that before.
JW--Answer me this...is there another area in the state where a rancher can call a private pilot directly and that pilot can hunt, completely bypassing the local trapper and game dept?
SJ—No as I said we are in a pilot program, because of the trapper's refusal to answer calls and the people also were having a hard time getting a hold of the trapper and preferred to call JJ.
Jw--Can you explain to me why your pilots are treated special? Why should your pilots not have to follow the same procedures that are required for contract pilots in the rest of the state?
SJ—They aren't necessarily special we just don't have a trapper willing to work with him. I don't know, but I don't think the contract pilots have ever had to get permission, they follow the permission slip of the trapper or a least the state plane does. Permitted pilots have to get their own written permission or as before verbal permission before flying.
JW--If your group wants to fight about the open fields and other issues fine, you probably have some valid issues. But in regards to the killing of predators and your aerial hunting program.......it sure looks like you have very little to gripe about. Indeed it appears that your area is receiving some very special treatment from the state.
SJ---The open fields is our issue and we do feel property rights are being violated.
The only reason the permitted pilot is receiving special treatment is because the trapper refuses to do what he is told. This is not a new gripe it has been going on for years and two years ago the trappers refusal to do what he was told, was brought up by one of his own. The permitted pilot in this area, does not receives any funds from GF&P----the predator district pays him. The contracted pilot is paid by GF&P.
JW---As for the permission slips, it seems very simple to me that if your pilots can operate without being requested and/or "supervised" by the GFP employee in the area, then there must be some sort of control in place to insure that he has the necessary permission before he hunts.
SJ –- I don't think anyone minds that he has permission slips or that they have to be in Pierre before he can fly. Its just that if you haven't signed a permission slip and you have a complaint he isn't able to take care of your problem until Pierre says they have it. In other words a man's word is a thing of the past.
I guess I could ask you the same question: If a trapper can trap without a permission slip being in place who looks over him or who's control is he under?
I hope I have answered all of your questions.
Lies and truths are only perceptions. I believe what I say to be true. SH believes what he says to be true. Facts are determined by evidence. We can all throw out facts but it will be those that can back them with circumstantial and hard evidence that will matter at all. I will also say again as I did in my last post "I don't like liars, deceivers and witch hunters". In the same token I don't believe that anyone that disagrees with me is all of the above. When I have to resort to name calling to make a point or a statement, I will quit.
JW--Oh OK. Then he DID violate federal law. At least we are now clear on that.
SJ— Yes, They found him guilty on one count, it was just one mans word against another as far as whether permission was given or not. It used to be that a mans word was all you needed and that is what JJ thought he had as far as permission. When a man's word isn't worth much, you need prima facie evidence to prove it, which is a signed permission slip.
JW---Liberty, come on now! Considering the above and the fact that Mr. Cooper himself wrote a letter to the judge on JJ's behalf, and as SH explained, your pilots are permitted to operate with far more freedom that all the other private pilots in your state..........well, as I said before, it appears to me that your game dept is bending over backwards to appease the folks in your area.
SJ—This didn't just come about out of the goodness of his heart. Yes we are in a pilot program, which does give our pilot more freedom. The reason we are in this is because we have a trapper who refuses to work with certain pilots. JJ being the main one to fly or that people want and the trapper's refusal to take his calls and giving approval, it was only a matter of time until something was going to go down. Although when the trapper took the oath and put his hand on the Bible he admitted that JJ had been calling him, he had always denied that before.
JW--Answer me this...is there another area in the state where a rancher can call a private pilot directly and that pilot can hunt, completely bypassing the local trapper and game dept?
SJ—No as I said we are in a pilot program, because of the trapper's refusal to answer calls and the people also were having a hard time getting a hold of the trapper and preferred to call JJ.
Jw--Can you explain to me why your pilots are treated special? Why should your pilots not have to follow the same procedures that are required for contract pilots in the rest of the state?
SJ—They aren't necessarily special we just don't have a trapper willing to work with him. I don't know, but I don't think the contract pilots have ever had to get permission, they follow the permission slip of the trapper or a least the state plane does. Permitted pilots have to get their own written permission or as before verbal permission before flying.
JW--If your group wants to fight about the open fields and other issues fine, you probably have some valid issues. But in regards to the killing of predators and your aerial hunting program.......it sure looks like you have very little to gripe about. Indeed it appears that your area is receiving some very special treatment from the state.
SJ---The open fields is our issue and we do feel property rights are being violated.
The only reason the permitted pilot is receiving special treatment is because the trapper refuses to do what he is told. This is not a new gripe it has been going on for years and two years ago the trappers refusal to do what he was told, was brought up by one of his own. The permitted pilot in this area, does not receives any funds from GF&P----the predator district pays him. The contracted pilot is paid by GF&P.
JW---As for the permission slips, it seems very simple to me that if your pilots can operate without being requested and/or "supervised" by the GFP employee in the area, then there must be some sort of control in place to insure that he has the necessary permission before he hunts.
SJ –- I don't think anyone minds that he has permission slips or that they have to be in Pierre before he can fly. Its just that if you haven't signed a permission slip and you have a complaint he isn't able to take care of your problem until Pierre says they have it. In other words a man's word is a thing of the past.
I guess I could ask you the same question: If a trapper can trap without a permission slip being in place who looks over him or who's control is he under?
I hope I have answered all of your questions.
Lies and truths are only perceptions. I believe what I say to be true. SH believes what he says to be true. Facts are determined by evidence. We can all throw out facts but it will be those that can back them with circumstantial and hard evidence that will matter at all. I will also say again as I did in my last post "I don't like liars, deceivers and witch hunters". In the same token I don't believe that anyone that disagrees with me is all of the above. When I have to resort to name calling to make a point or a statement, I will quit.