The North American Cattle Men's Association

[frenchie]

Some of those seeds were seeded long before R-CALF existed...Remember which country called Montana and US cattle diseased first :? :???: :wink: .......

Oh your so right Ot...strange Canada took 200,000 calf out of Montana some yrs. when some other U.S states would not take your cattle either.i quess they though your cattle diseased as well.

But go ahead OT stir the pot some more :lol:

About the only states that had any restrictions were something like Maine and New York-- not the feeder capitals of North America :lol: :lol:

perhaps not, but still a part of the U.S that would not take your cattle.

 

[Tam]

Yup,I get a laugh outa "BSE" and people like you every time I cash a sale barn check :wink: .............good luck,You are too stupid to come together as one and fight your common enemy.

So you find it funny that Husband/daddies were committing suicide because they lost everything they had worked for and couldn't see their way out of the depression that BSE caused. We had one small area in Sask that had 42 of their men on suicide watch after two took their lives. Big funny issue isn't it Haymaker? People like you are truly sick when they can see humor in a child losing their daddy because one Organization thinks lieing about the safety of their product is justified just so you can cash your sale barn check. Think about all those children the next time you cash a check Haymaker and see if a smile comes to your face.

Tam- I suppose its all Haymakers fault- or my fault- or Leos or Bullards :???: :???: Grow up-- There have been politics and border issues a lot longer than you are old- goes back to the days the Queen mother let Sitting Bull take refuge from US troops after the Custer battle- and all those Canadian horse thieves that hid in your back yard.... The decisions made by both governments and groups like your Canadian wheat board have affected Americans and Canadians both--and no one person caused any of them....Why don't you blame it on NAFTA?-- The rulings after NAFTA took away your CROW rate so that every wheat farmer in Canada became a cowman....Or blame it on your precious CCA who went along with CFIA and adopted the strict OIE rules on BSE imports to protect your Canadian herd- that same precious herd that had all kinds of restrictions on allowing in US cattle....And CCA and CFIA agreed 100% with them, until the rotten egg hatched in their own back yard- then they want to change the rules......

Tam- I don't see the border argument ever going away--The border is there-- Their are two seperate countries-- In fact I see both the US and Canadians becoming more protectionist in years to come....Canadians are already calling for more Canadian ownership of business and less dependence on the US--those same multinational packers and US feedlot owners whose millions $ were welcomed with open arms in Canada a few years ago are now being condemned...Many Americans are calling for greater safeguards to protect our northern border from terrorist threats that the Canadian government now prefers to turn a blind eye to....There are big issues coming up concerning subsidies and quotas which will definitely have the hog and dairy industries of both sides filing- many grain issues (which tie into the cattle industry) will be rekindled ... Nope the border issue will not go away because of 1 or 2 or even 10 or 20 court rulings....

And every time I read one of your blame and hate posts I see the Gap widening......

You know Oldtimer you and Haymaker seem to think that the Lies R-CALF used to try destroy our industry had no affect on the mental health of the Canadian rancher but that is just not the truth. R-CALF said if BSE was ever found in the US it would be a NON ISSUE because of the safeguards the US has. But when BSE was found in Canada we had those same and in some cases stricted safeguards but R-CALF still repeatedly LIED about the safety of our beef to stop the border from openning, turning this into a very BIG ISSUE. The open border would have been seen as a tiny light at the end of the very long depressing tunnel that most ranchers in Canada found themselves in, but no R-CALF had to protect your calf check. When that tunnel closed in on some of them it was more than they could take. So when I hear how you laugh about the affect of BSE on Canada, I think about the families that have lost the most, their loved ones because of depression. I take your posts as a denial of the affect that R-CALF had, but why should that surprize anyone you are great at denial are you. Any lie is justified in yours and Haymaker books as long as you get your calf check. Is knowing that big calf check came on the backs of a few Canadian ranchers and their families just to hard to take. R-CALF lies had an affect on Canada and denying them doesn't change it. So why don't you do something about the gap that is growing between us and stop denying responibility for the damage R-CALF caused and you supported.

And I do agree that border issues will always be there but I would hope people will use the truth instead of LIES to make their point. But as long as R-CALF is in the mix I doubt we will see that as their membership believes any story justifies the end result, no matter what affect it has on the opposing side. They are not even beyond lieing in a court of law so they can get they way. So yes I HATE R-CALF and so do many others on both sides of the border and unless R-CALF retracts a few of their lies I can't see the GAP between R-CALF and the rest of the NORTH AMERICAN Cattle industry closing up any time soon.

 

[Tam]

Oh your so right Ot...strange Canada took 200,000 calf out of Montana some yrs. when some other U.S states would not take your cattle either.i quess they though your cattle diseased as well.

But go ahead OT stir the pot some more :lol:

About the only states that had any restrictions were something like Maine and New York-- not the feeder capitals of North America :lol: :lol:

perhaps not, but still a part of the U.S that would not take your cattle.

I looked it up once and I seem to remember there was somewhere around thirteen states that have restrictions on cattle coming from western states.

 

[Anonymous]

Tam--"But when BSE was found in Canada we had those same and in some cases stricted safeguards but R-CALF still repeatedly LIED about the safety of our beef to stop the border from openning, turning this into a very BIG ISSUE."

But Tam I think BSE is a very BIG ISSUE..

Does that make me a liar-- No that is my opinion- all the years I spent safeguarding the public tells me that this is an issue that if we error, we should error on the side of safety- both consumer and herd safety... BSE was apparently a big issue to the USDA and CFIA too until it was found in North America and interferred with packer marketing and profits, and a trade agreement-- Then they went overboard to make it a non-issue even to the point of contradicting what their own and many leading TSE scientists have said....

Now with the errors and inefficiencies of the USDA in there surveillance program, their outright going behind the back activities to open trade and many questions regarding whether we have the firewalls up to prevent spread of the disease, I think BSE has become a bigger issue......Today it involves only trade-- what about tomorrow :???:

My only hope is that our faith in government agencies, bureaucrats and politicians that make their decisions affecting how they look to the world and their constituents and backers today, doesn't lead to a disaster tomorrow......I guess we'll know in the next 10-20 years......

 

[Tam]

Tam--"But when BSE was found in Canada we had those same and in some cases stricted safeguards but R-CALF still repeatedly LIED about the safety of our beef to stop the border from openning, turning this into a very BIG ISSUE."

But Tam I think BSE is a very BIG ISSUE..

Does that make me a liar-- No that is my opinion- all the years I spent safeguarding the public tells me that this is an issue that if we error, we should error on the side of safety- both consumer and herd safety... BSE was apparently a big issue to the USDA and CFIA too until it was found in North America and interferred with packer marketing and profits, and a trade agreement-- Then they went overboard to make it a non-issue even to the point of contradicting what their own and many leading TSE scientists have said....

Now with the errors and inefficiencies of the USDA in there surveillance program, their outright going behind the back activities to open trade and many questions regarding whether we have the firewalls up to prevent spread of the disease, I think BSE has become a bigger issue......Today it involves only trade-- what about tomorrow :???:

My only hope is that our faith in government agencies, bureaucrats and politicians that make their decisions affecting how they look to the world and their constituents and backers today, doesn't lead to a disaster tomorrow......I guess we'll know in the next 10-20 years......

quote from Leo .

So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don't worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef".

Tell us Oldtimer how are you firewalls different from Canada's? I'll tell you OURS ARE STRICTER. If BSE is a very big issue to you, are you out telling people to stop eatting US beef as it has BSE like you were telling them Canadian beef was a genuine risk of death. See there is the US side of BSE but it doesn't match the one R-CALF has been passing off about Canadian beef does it. According to R-CALF US beef is still the safest beef in the world even after two cases and now a third case within the US borders. Yes the one was Canadian but she was in the US beef supply not ours wasn't she.

 

[Anonymous]

Tam- I think we still have gaps in our firewalls- R-CALF does also...Items like feeding chicken litter and table scraps to cows, allowing blood into calf replacer and other products, questions of what are SRM's---Also I agree with them that neither country has done enough adequate testing for us to know the true picture of the disease in either country...USDA's now questionable entire test program and Canada's failure to test all coming out of the Alberta cluster area do not give me confidence.......


As long as these gaps exist, we should not be importing from a BSE country- one that could have a higher incidence and in the case of the Alberta area could be much much higher....We definitely do not want to introduce more into the country- just because we have found a couple doesn't mean to bring more in and without firewalls in place spread it further....

I also think both countries should be allowing private packers who want to, to test-- both to open export markets and to get a picture of what is the extent of infection.....This absolute refusal makes it look like they have something to hide... I laugh now when I think of one of USDA's arguments over private testing-" that Creekstone and the other private packers didn't have the expertise and facilities to do proper testing" --SAY WHAT USDA :???: :? :roll: :lol: :lol:

 

[Tam]

Tam- I think we still have gaps in our firewalls- R-CALF does also...

Read this quote again Oldtimer

So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don't worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef".

Where in Leo's planned speech to consumer does it say he believes the US has gaps in those firewalls. True, by all the rest of the speeches he has made I believe he does believe you do have gaps but he is not going to tell the US consumer that or they will stop eating beef. Two different stories one topic again. Leo has a habit of saying what ever fits the moment and that is the big problem. US beef is the safest in the world while Canadian beef is a genuine risk of death. Another two stories same topic. When are you going to admit what R-CALF under the guidance of Leo is doing and saying is WRONG.

 

[Anonymous]

Well Tam you only got about 3 months to still cuss Leo- practice up so you can blame someone else for all your woes then......New Canadian anthem -"POOOOOOR CANADA " :wink:

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

Jesse, for my .02 worth I'd like to ask you how you would feel if the outfit that had been used to keep a lid on your prices for years suddenly wasn't able to do so. Would you feel you owed them any favors?

Tam, I'm sorry about the fellas up there who ended it. However, were you as concerned for the Englishmen when they were shut off from the world and had their herds destroyed? Are you as mad at the Japanese etal as you are at us? We're taking your beef - they're not.

Sandhusker, I would not expect a twisted r-calfer to be able to understand this, but there is a distinct difference between open, competitive market influences such as pre-BSE and the **** that you r-calfers have put us through up here when things could have gotten back to normal much earlier. And yes, I and others have felt a degree of the pain that the English endured in their calamity.

But what you narrow-minded, bigoted caricatures of humans called r-calfers fail to see is that we do not have an epidemic in North America as they had in Britain (thank God) , as well as the fact that the U.S. and CDN. herds had/have the same potential and level of contamination and are therefore equal.

But you stand there holding your filthy skirts high and act the part of the perfect hypocrite.

And that is what will drive the wedge deeper all the time between the Canadian and American producer.

Are you proud of proving your ignorance so competently Sandhusker et al?

John.

 

[Anonymous]

OT: "Tam- I think we still have gaps in our firewalls- R-CALF does also...Items like feeding chicken litter and table scraps to cows, allowing blood into calf replacer and other products, questions of what are SRM's---Also I agree with them that neither country has done enough adequate testing for us to know the true picture of the disease in either country...USDA's now questionable entire test program and Canada's failure to test all coming out of the Alberta cluster area do not give me confidence.......


As long as these gaps exist, we should not be importing from a BSE country- one that could have a higher incidence and in the case of the Alberta area could be much much higher....We definitely do not want to introduce more into the country- just because we have found a couple doesn't mean to bring more in and without firewalls in place spread it further.... "

Translation: I disagree with R-CULT when they say we have the safest beef in the world and Japan and South Korea should not be importing from a BSE country.

Glad we cleared that up!



~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

R-CALF was causing you the pain? Who the heck was writing the cattle checks up there? Who set those prices? Who was in contempt of Parliament? Who took millions in a government handout, used it against you and then refused to account for it? Who is refusing you the right to test, which would undoubtedly open up other markets? Is that R-CALF?

You know John, if you can't find the source of your problems, you'll never fix them.

 

[Anonymous]

That's right Sandman, play Leo's hand of "this has nothing to do with the Canadian cattlemen". You bet! Clear that conscience! "BWAME DA PACKAH".

Who kept the Canadian border closed? R-CULT and their lies!

Keep cleansing that conscience!

Too much of a coward to admit that this is about Canadian imports and too ignorant to understand the actual ecomomic impact of those imports.

Why would you try to insult the intelligence of the Canadian cattle producer like that?

You are pathetic beyond belief!




~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

"Bwame Da Packah"? I guess they didn't set the price and write the checks? I'm not blaming them. I'm saying they did it.

SH,"Who kept the Canadian border closed?"

At first it was the USDA, after that it was the court. Why are you always BWAMING AH-CAF?

 

[Anonymous]

Keep cleansing that conscience!

Many U.S. producers benefitted in a small way so all Canadian producers would suffer in a big way.

Keep cleansing that conscience!



~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

Keep cleansing that conscience!

Many U.S. producers benefitted in a small way so all Canadian producers would suffer in a big way.

Keep cleansing that conscience!



~SH~

Keep ignoring the facts!

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

Keep ignoring the facts!

No one is better at it than you little boy. You repeatedly demonstrate that you have absolutely no concept of reality beyond the extent of your wallet. Typical of a banker and peabrained protectionist.

If we need further evidence, you provide it with every post of yours that has that stupid signature line at the bottom. How appropriate for you sandhusker.

 

[Sandhusker]

Keep ignoring the facts!

No one is better at it than you little boy. You repeatedly demonstrate that you have absolutely no concept of reality beyond the extent of your wallet. Typical of a banker and peabrained protectionist.

If we need further evidence, you provide it with every post of yours that has that stupid signature line at the bottom. How appropriate for you sandhusker.

I've been very vocal that it is wrong to reverse policy based on health and herd safety solely for economic reasons and all I'm thinking about is my wallet? In these WTO posts I've said that trade should NOT trump health, safety, environment protection, etc... and all I'm thinking about is my wallet? Yeah, I'm all about money. :roll:

I got my signature line from Monty Python. It's a joke, MLA, a joke.

 

[Tam]

R-CALF was causing you the pain? Who the heck was writing the cattle checks up there? Who set those prices? Who was in contempt of Parliament? Who took millions in a government handout, used it against you and then refused to account for it? Who is refusing you the right to test, which would undoubtedly open up other markets? Is that R-CALF?

You know John, if you can't find the source of your problems, you'll never fix them.

Who the heck was writing the cattle checks up there?

By some news articles it was R-CALF members :wink:
Who is responible for holding the border openning up so the Big US packers could do what they are doing. R-CALF claims Packers are to blame for all your woes but you handed Canada to them on a silver platter for a prolonged time and what did that really do Sandhusker. It made them even stronger and put some of their competition in the US out of business as they couldn't access the same cattle. Which in turn added to the packer concentration in the US. Way to go R-CALF now you will have even more to bitch about when you have to pay the trucking to get your cattle to another state to have them slaughtered.

Who is refusing you the right to test, which would undoubtedly open up other markets?

first of all we do not have the testing capabilities to test every animal slaughtered in Canada and that is the only way Japan would have take our beef. You see they take a small percentage from most if not all cattle slaughter they don't take the whole animal but I think I told you that already didn't I. Even if the CFIA had said yes to private companies making deals, Japan also had to agree and Japan said no to the plan when they were asked. So how can you say it would have openned markets.

 

[Sandhusker]

R-CALF's injunction kept the border closed for 4 months. All the damage you talk about was created in 4 months?

You don't have testing facilities? Build them. You're adding packing capacity so it appears there are bricks up there.

Japan turned down an offer for tested beef? I don't believe that. When did Canada offer tested beef (the tested beef they couldn't provide because they didn't have testing facilities)?

You need to do some reasearch on what the Japanese take. You told me they only take 3% of the carcass. Name your price and I'll gladly wager you on that.

 

[Murgen]

I get a kick out of the RCALFer's shifting blame for the closed border now. Were they not taking credit for it being closed in the past?

I guess I can dig up some quotes if it is not believed.

On another note. An organization is made up of individuals and the RCALF individuals on this site have done an exceptional job of setting an example for many to dislike them. Their lies and deceipt are well documented.

We as Canadians, don't blame the name RCALF, we blame the individual members who took advantage of a situation to discredit a whole industry North American wide.

The smug faces of RCALF members has been well documented on TV, radio and yes on this site, to deny your satisfaction with the history since May 20, is just another bold face lie. RCALF is like a child that has crumbs on his face and still denies stilling the cookie.