Thoughts on weaning.

[leanin' H]

9 foot railroad ties set 2 1/2 feet deep and 8 feet apart. Then a 16 foot welded wire panel 5 foot tall panel. Covered by 5 lodgepole pines. 200 calves wouldn't dent it! A cow elk wouldn't get out either!

Could be a pile of dead calves where they piled up. :?

If you'd like to build revolving door calf pens, don't be suprised when they get out! I thought the purpose of fenceline weaning was to KEEP THE CALVES AWAY FROM THE COWS! Next time try asking them really nicely to just wean themselves! :wink:

 

[Justin]

We have purchased lots of calves out of the sale barn where Soapweed sells his calves. We always buy calves that have had "the works" (just like Soapweed prepares his calves). Rarely have a sick one. This year the calves we bought were gathered at the ranch in the snow, trucked 65 miles to the sale barn, went through the sale about 4 pm, were loaded on a truck immediately and had a 500 mile ride. They arrived about 20 hours after seeing their momma for the last time. AFter they arrived, we fill them up on 2nd cutting grass hay, and start them on a receiving pelleted feed. In three days they are quiet and chewing their cud. This year, it rained nearly every day for 3 weeks after their arrival. A handful got real snotty with a dropped ear, which I treated immediately with Draxin. Within 12 hours they were back to eating. Death loss is non existant. I give tons of credit to the ranchers like Soapweed who precondtion their calves. Sure makes life more fun for those of us who shell out the dollars when we get the last bid :wink:

i think that for those who sell their calves through the ring, preconditioning is a must. if you don't i think you are allowing the buyers to give you a pretty good ash kickin' on the price.

Sundancer...you say you only buy calves with "the works"(just like Soapweed prepares his calves). does "the works" include implants?

 

[Northern Rancher]

I don't buy many calves during the 'run'-I'm not a real good needle man-I just wait and buy a bit later in the deal when somebody else has the calves straightened out. Usually I'm just buying heifers to rebreed and they're usually one iron fully vaccinated.

 

[Grassfarmer]

Weaning is easy that's for sure - the tough part is maintaining animal health and performance throughout this critical period. In my opinion a carefully planned and executed low stress weaning process will pay off many times over due to the reduced illness and treatment levels in the weaned calves. Personally I would like to see "weaning into the auction" outlawed as it just about guarantees illness and shipping fever.

And by whose authority would it be outlawed? Sounds a bit like messing with private property rights.

There are many ways to skin a cat and many ways to wean a calf. Sometimes one method works great one year and not worth a darn the next. One thing about taking calves to an auction on the day you wean, there is almost no chance they will get back with their mothers. Unless perhaps if your next door neighbor buys your calves. :roll: By giving preconditioning shots about a month before selling, most of the time calves can go through a sale barn and stay healthy. Just this morning I called the man who bought our heifer calves. He reported that they settled right down and are doing well. The 61 heifer calves I bought through the sale barn on the day they were weaned did likewise. They settled right down and are doing great. I give them wild hay for two days and then give them alfalfa on the third day. The diet is working well.

Grassfarmer, you should be tickled pink that there are those of us who ranch in a completely backwards fashion. As things are now, your "all natural" superb beef stands out from the crowd and sells for a premium price. If everyone did things the "right" way as you would like to impose upon all of us, the beef that stands out as "natural" with extra value now, would just be plain old commodity beef. Don't be sad, be glad. :wink:

The worlds a bigger place than your ranch, even than the Sandhills, Soapweed. If you fail to acknowledge that the weaning and immediate sale of calves through auctions into feedlots is a major cause of illness and drug usage in the feedlots you are deluding yourself. Kind of like you are when you think McDonalds are the purveyors of fine foods :roll:
Sure preconditioning helps but what proportion of cattle are preconditioned across the continent ? very few in the auctions in this part of Canada.

 

[Denny]

Weaning is easy that's for sure - the tough part is maintaining animal health and performance throughout this critical period. In my opinion a carefully planned and executed low stress weaning process will pay off many times over due to the reduced illness and treatment levels in the weaned calves. Personally I would like to see "weaning into the auction" outlawed as it just about guarantees illness and shipping fever.

And by whose authority would it be outlawed? Sounds a bit like messing with private property rights.

There are many ways to skin a cat and many ways to wean a calf. Sometimes one method works great one year and not worth a darn the next. One thing about taking calves to an auction on the day you wean, there is almost no chance they will get back with their mothers. Unless perhaps if your next door neighbor buys your calves. :roll: By giving preconditioning shots about a month before selling, most of the time calves can go through a sale barn and stay healthy. Just this morning I called the man who bought our heifer calves. He reported that they settled right down and are doing well. The 61 heifer calves I bought through the sale barn on the day they were weaned did likewise. They settled right down and are doing great. I give them wild hay for two days and then give them alfalfa on the third day. The diet is working well.

Grassfarmer, you should be tickled pink that there are those of us who ranch in a completely backwards fashion. As things are now, your "all natural" superb beef stands out from the crowd and sells for a premium price. If everyone did things the "right" way as you would like to impose upon all of us, the beef that stands out as "natural" with extra value now, would just be plain old commodity beef. Don't be sad, be glad. :wink:

The worlds a bigger place than your ranch, even than the Sandhills, Soapweed. If you fail to acknowledge that the weaning and immediate sale of calves through auctions into feedlots is a major cause of illness and drug usage in the feedlots you are deluding yourself. Kind of like you are when you think McDonalds are the purveyors of fine foods :roll:
Sure preconditioning helps but what proportion of cattle are preconditioned across the continent ? very few in the auctions in this part of Canada.

If you don't precondition calves here it will cost you $50 to $100 a calf.Between the preconditioning shots and a good mineral program sickness is minimal.

What I'm wondering is who in this large world made you the resident expert on whats the proper and right way to do things.

I think they should make a law anyone who uses Scottish Highlander blood in cattle should'nt be able to give advive. Pretty rediculous statement but no different than yours on selling calves off the cow.

 

[Frank in West Dakota]

9 foot railroad ties set 2 1/2 feet deep and 8 feet apart. Then a 16 foot welded wire panel 5 foot tall panel. Covered by 5 lodgepole pines. 200 calves wouldn't dent it! A cow elk wouldn't get out either!

I think you'd be surprised what a couple hundred calves could do to that fence!
And yes, they could topple it! :shock:

 

[tenbach79]

Last year I ran out of time and feed so I decided to sell my calves without doing any pre-vac shots. I sold them right off of grass and the cow and I really took a price hit on them but thats what happens sometimes not blaming anyone but me.

Why would anyone want the goverment telling them that you can't sell cattle a certian way. Thats a path that I don't want to go down.

Leanin-H that sure sounds like one hell of a fence. I am going to do some major coral work after I get these calves sold. i guess I should have done it before this but oh well.

I was really surprised after they got back with their mothers I havent had any problems with them wanting to get back.

 

[Grassfarmer]

And by whose authority would it be outlawed? Sounds a bit like messing with private property rights.

There are many ways to skin a cat and many ways to wean a calf. Sometimes one method works great one year and not worth a darn the next. One thing about taking calves to an auction on the day you wean, there is almost no chance they will get back with their mothers. Unless perhaps if your next door neighbor buys your calves. :roll: By giving preconditioning shots about a month before selling, most of the time calves can go through a sale barn and stay healthy. Just this morning I called the man who bought our heifer calves. He reported that they settled right down and are doing well. The 61 heifer calves I bought through the sale barn on the day they were weaned did likewise. They settled right down and are doing great. I give them wild hay for two days and then give them alfalfa on the third day. The diet is working well.

Grassfarmer, you should be tickled pink that there are those of us who ranch in a completely backwards fashion. As things are now, your "all natural" superb beef stands out from the crowd and sells for a premium price. If everyone did things the "right" way as you would like to impose upon all of us, the beef that stands out as "natural" with extra value now, would just be plain old commodity beef. Don't be sad, be glad. :wink:

The worlds a bigger place than your ranch, even than the Sandhills, Soapweed. If you fail to acknowledge that the weaning and immediate sale of calves through auctions into feedlots is a major cause of illness and drug usage in the feedlots you are deluding yourself. Kind of like you are when you think McDonalds are the purveyors of fine foods :roll:
Sure preconditioning helps but what proportion of cattle are preconditioned across the continent ? very few in the auctions in this part of Canada.

If you don't precondition calves here it will cost you $50 to $100 a calf.Between the preconditioning shots and a good mineral program sickness is minimal.

What I'm wondering is who in this large world made you the resident expert on whats the proper and right way to do things.

I think they should make a law anyone who uses Scottish Highlander blood in cattle should'nt be able to give advive. Pretty rediculous statement but no different than yours on selling calves off the cow.

I must say I'm finding this site getting a little tiresome with all the challenges to people posting their opinions rather than just debating the issues. Denny, I never claimed to be the resident expert on this topic or any other. I post my opinions just like anybody else on here and in this case even prefaced my sentence with "Personally I would like to see "weaning into the auction" outlawed...." Couldn't be simpler.

 

[gcreekrch]

Personally Grassfarmer, I can't understand why someone who seems to like rules, regulations, govt. intervention, govt. payment programs, marketing boards, etc wouldn't have just stayed in the European Union where all of the above were readily available.
There is an individual from Britain who moved to the Kootenay region of BC a short 4 years ago who is trying to stop the grizzly season in that area because it interferes with his bear-viewing business. :roll:
I thought people emigrated to Canada in part because of the freedom that is fast disappearing due in part to vocal folks like yourself that miss some of the components their life had in the Old Country.
You need to understand that some things that work or are accepted practices in one area just would not be feasable in another.
Personally, I am not a "people person" and the last thing I can see myself doing is prostituting myself at a Farmer's Market and telling folks that it is unhealthy to eat any food but what I produce. By your posts on here I believe that may be one of the selling points you push at your customers. I have no doubt that you produce a good product but why must you run down other's practices before you have walked a mile in their boots.
I also believe you have a lot to add to conversations on here if you could just lighten up a little.
As I posted in another thread, I also believe you have a little "o' the blarney" in you as you have stated that your cattle never see grain, yet you posted pictures of receiving cereal silage from the neighboring Hutterite colony. We all know good cereal silage has a fair amount of immature grain in it so who are you trying to fool? :roll:
We all do what works for our own operations and if we need help we ask for it. God help us all when the govt. starts making our decisions for us.

Regards, gcreek

 

[Richard Doolittle]

Regarding the subject of selling weaned calves versus selling off the cow....... If there was any market incentive to sell weaned calves, more people would wean before selling. If weaned calves aren't worth any more money, why would people do it?

 

[Denny]

Regarding the subject of selling weaned calves versus selling off the cow....... If there was any market incentive to sell weaned calves, more people would wean before selling. If weaned calves aren't worth any more money, why would people do it?

AMEN.

 

[burnt]

I have seen precon calves weaned 3 - 4 weeks bring 10 cents less than calves that came in right off the cow. Calves never look better than they do the day you wean them.

Those precon calves weaned a few weeks and then sold are some of the best bargains at the sales barn.

 

[Sundancer]

We have purchased lots of calves out of the sale barn where Soapweed sells his calves. We always buy calves that have had "the works" (just like Soapweed prepares his calves). Rarely have a sick one. This year the calves we bought were gathered at the ranch in the snow, trucked 65 miles to the sale barn, went through the sale about 4 pm, were loaded on a truck immediately and had a 500 mile ride. They arrived about 20 hours after seeing their momma for the last time. AFter they arrived, we fill them up on 2nd cutting grass hay, and start them on a receiving pelleted feed. In three days they are quiet and chewing their cud. This year, it rained nearly every day for 3 weeks after their arrival. A handful got real snotty with a dropped ear, which I treated immediately with Draxin. Within 12 hours they were back to eating. Death loss is non existant. I give tons of credit to the ranchers like Soapweed who precondtion their calves. Sure makes life more fun for those of us who shell out the dollars when we get the last bid :wink:

i think that for those who sell their calves through the ring, preconditioning is a must. if you don't i think you are allowing the buyers to give you a pretty good ash kickin' on the price.

Sundancer...you say you only buy calves with "the works"(just like Soapweed prepares his calves). does "the works" include implants?

Typically not, since a large majority of the cattle are heifers that we develop for replacements.

 

[Anonymous]

I have seen precon calves weaned 3 - 4 weeks bring 10 cents less than calves that came in right off the cow. Calves never look better than they do the day you wean them.

Those precon calves weaned a few weeks and then sold are some of the best bargains at the sales barn.

I agree burnt-- if you are going to wean them and sell them as weaned calves you better plan to keep them at least 60 days or longer (til spring) giving them the minimum of some good forage.....
Newly weaned calves loose that "bloom" they had when just off the cow..And usually in the spring there are several looking for calves to run on grass for the summer.....

 

[Grassfarmer]

Personally Grassfarmer, I can't understand why someone who seems to like rules, regulations, govt. intervention, govt. payment programs, marketing boards, etc wouldn't have just stayed in the European Union where all of the above were readily available.
There is an individual from Britain who moved to the Kootenay region of BC a short 4 years ago who is trying to stop the grizzly season in that area because it interferes with his bear-viewing business. :roll:
I thought people emigrated to Canada in part because of the freedom that is fast disappearing due in part to vocal folks like yourself that miss some of the components their life had in the Old Country.
You need to understand that some things that work or are accepted practices in one area just would not be feasable in another.
Personally, I am not a "people person" and the last thing I can see myself doing is prostituting myself at a Farmer's Market and telling folks that it is unhealthy to eat any food but what I produce. By your posts on here I believe that may be one of the selling points you push at your customers. I have no doubt that you produce a good product but why must you run down other's practices before you have walked a mile in their boots.
I also believe you have a lot to add to conversations on here if you could just lighten up a little.
As I posted in another thread, I also believe you have a little "o' the blarney" in you as you have stated that your cattle never see grain, yet you posted pictures of receiving cereal silage from the neighboring Hutterite colony. We all know good cereal silage has a fair amount of immature grain in it so who are you trying to fool? :roll:
We all do what works for our own operations and if we need help we ask for it. God help us all when the govt. starts making our decisions for us.

Regards, gcreek

Thanks for another misinformed character assasination that had nothing to do with the topic at hand gcreekrch.
I did move to Canada to benefit from more freedom to operate free from Government rules etc. I just happen to feel there is a better level to operate at than the EU over regulation at one end and the mafia style "free market" run by the likes of Nilssons etc at the other end. I do not feel it acceptable that there are corporations in our country that operate above the laws of the land.
I don't attend farmers markets, certainly don't prostitute myself :shock: and don't "push" any anti-commodity beef opinions at my customers. We don't need to, we just sit back and let the consumers come to us - they know what they want - they aren't dummies.
Where did I post that my cattle never receive grain? I have never said that - I sell cattle that are grass-fed but due to winter we always feed either cereal silage or hay with a wheat short pellet for energy. I've never hidden that fact from readers on here or from our customers.
Oh, and I never mentioned getting Government involved in weaning calves either. Another invention to beat up the incomer with though :roll:

 

[Justin]

Personally Grassfarmer, I can't understand why someone who seems to like rules, regulations, govt. intervention, govt. payment programs, marketing boards, etc wouldn't have just stayed in the European Union where all of the above were readily available.
There is an individual from Britain who moved to the Kootenay region of BC a short 4 years ago who is trying to stop the grizzly season in that area because it interferes with his bear-viewing business. :roll:
I thought people emigrated to Canada in part because of the freedom that is fast disappearing due in part to vocal folks like yourself that miss some of the components their life had in the Old Country.
You need to understand that some things that work or are accepted practices in one area just would not be feasable in another.
Personally, I am not a "people person" and the last thing I can see myself doing is prostituting myself at a Farmer's Market and telling folks that it is unhealthy to eat any food but what I produce. By your posts on here I believe that may be one of the selling points you push at your customers. I have no doubt that you produce a good product but why must you run down other's practices before you have walked a mile in their boots.I also believe you have a lot to add to conversations on here if you could just lighten up a little.
As I posted in another thread, I also believe you have a little "o' the blarney" in you as you have stated that your cattle never see grain, yet you posted pictures of receiving cereal silage from the neighboring Hutterite colony. We all know good cereal silage has a fair amount of immature grain in it so who are you trying to fool? :roll:
We all do what works for our own operations and if we need help we ask for it. God help us all when the govt. starts making our decisions for us.

Regards, gcreek

but lets be fair......isn't that what Soapweed and others are trying to do on this thread with their non-natural cattle?. Soapweed has more or less been putting down the "natural" way of producing beef since this topic came up. i'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, but lets take a look with both eyes open.....FWIW

 

[leanin' H]

What Justin said has been my point all along! WHY DOES SOMEBODY HAVE TO BE RIGHT AND SOMEBODY WRONG? We all do stuff a little different and some stuff way different. But we all run cows and need to stick together. Wean how you'd like, feed how you'd like, and voice your opinions as you'd like. But quit stomping on each other and realize we are all in this together. Hell, i sound like some damn peace loving hippy! :roll:

 

[tenbach79]

You hit the nail on the head Leanin-H. I was just curiouse how everybody else weaned calves or if they don't. Dont mean a rats ash to me what they do to their calves.

Feeders around here have said that they want the calves that they buy pre-vac even if they do what they want to them after they buy them.

 

[per]

What Justin said has been my point all along! WHY DOES SOMEBODY HAVE TO BE RIGHT AND SOMEBODY WRONG? We all do stuff a little different and some stuff way different. But we all run cows and need to stick together. Wean how you'd like, feed how you'd like, and voice your opinions as you'd like. But quit stomping on each other and realize we are all in this together. Hell, i sound like some damn peace loving hippy! :roll:

I know it goes against no one being right or wrong H, but You're Right. (insert peace symbol icon)

 

[gcreekrch]

What Justin said has been my point all along! WHY DOES SOMEBODY HAVE TO BE RIGHT AND SOMEBODY WRONG? We all do stuff a little different and some stuff way different. But we all run cows and need to stick together. Wean how you'd like, feed how you'd like, and voice your opinions as you'd like. But quit stomping on each other and realize we are all in this together. Hell, i sound like some damn peace loving hippy! :roll:

I know it goes against no one being right or wrong H, but You're Right. (insert peace symbol icon)

I guess that is what I was trying to put across. I think we are all guilty of being somewhat narrow-minded, some of us including myself, more so than others.
The reason I took Grassfarmer to task was because in my opinion he seems to take his arguments one step past my comfort zone. I am glad for him that what he is doing works for him, I just wish he wouldn't push it so hard. Soap made a good comment that if we all followed Grassfarmers methods the grassfed beef would just become a commodity product as it would not be unique any longer. There are a lot of us that market a few animals in this fashion every year. If we marketed all of our livestock in this fashion we would soon be undercutting our neighbors to get our product moved.

I'll do what works best for my situation and let my fellow man do his own thing at the same time. :wink:

Live and let live!

Don't worry be Happy!


To Grassfarmer,

In many of your posts you have made mention of producing forage fed beef. In my mind this would let me believe that your animals have never recieved any source of grain whatsoever. You have also made some derogatory comments about those who do feed grain in any amounts. It would seem to me that your calves are being fed a ration (sans actual combined grain) that is similar to what most of the commodity operators are feeding.
If this is not at all the case, I will stand corrected.