Tony Dean apologizes?

[publichunter]

Because the pilots are regulated by the Federal law administered by GF&P.
They dont need to get permission slips because the law does not require it LB. You do not have enough political pull to change the law, that is the basic reason.

 

[Happy go lucky]

LB you want your state CO's to get written permission for compliance checks? So lets get this straight they have the open fields doctrine which has been upheld by a high court, they issue the license and all hunters know they can be checked at anytime or any place before purchasing said license, the public owns the wildlife, and yet you want them to ask permission to check out hunters,fisherman or trappers? If the landowner says NO then what LB? You are opening up a can of worms of paoching of the worst kind with something that will handcuff them from doing there asigned job by the state.

How much more poaching would take place when someone gets behind the locked fence of 10,000+ acres? Let's see I charge 3,000 a deer hunt and I'm behind my locked up land and the CO is told go fly a kite your not comming on to check my hunters or do I even have hunters? 10,000-30,000 acres is alot of unseen ground. High dollar poaching hunts is what would come of it in more cases becuase they know as long as the landowner holds his ground they are protected from the laws that all must abide?

You want to take hunting back a few 100 years like the Brits and make it for those with the deepest pockets? The very idea that a CO can do compliance checks in it's own right is a big deterant to poaching!

 

[publichunter]

Happy...you hit the coyote between the eyes.....nice shot
That is what they want....

 

[Liberty Belle]

LB you want your state CO's to get written permission for compliance checks? So lets get this straight they have the open fields doctrine which has been upheld by a high court, they issue the license and all hunters know they can be checked at anytime or any place before purchasing said license, the public owns the wildlife, and yet you want them to ask permission to check out hunters,fisherman or trappers? If the landowner says NO then what LB? You are opening up a can of worms of paoching of the worst kind with something that will handcuff them from doing there asigned job by the state.

How much more poaching would take place when someone gets behind the locked fence of 10,000+ acres? Let's see I charge 3,000 a deer hunt and I'm behind my locked up land and the CO is told go fly a kite your not comming on to check my hunters or do I even have hunters? 10,000-30,000 acres is alot of unseen ground. High dollar poaching hunts is what would come of it in more cases becuase they know as long as the landowner holds his ground they are protected from the laws that all must abide?

You want to take hunting back a few 100 years like the Brits and make it for those with the deepest pockets? The very idea that a CO can do compliance checks in it's own right is a big deterant to poaching!

You are illustrating the mindset of most game and fish employees who consider landowners to be criminals who can't be trusted on their own land. Hunters and fishermen are also considered to be lawbreakers by the game departments, but that evidently doesn't bother the wildlife organizations.

I always figured you were a game warden and this post pretty well confirms my suspicion. This big-brother mindset is what brought on the lockout and this is why the lockout will continue. Scream and whine all you want boys. It isn't helping your cause.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Because the pilots are regulated by the Federal law administered by GF&P.
They dont need to get permission slips because the law does not require it LB. You do not have enough political pull to change the law, that is the basic reason.

I don't know why I waste my time trying to further your education, but it is GF&P that requires the pilots to have written permission, not the feds. In most states aerial predator control pilots are regulated under APHIS. That wasn't good enough for SD GF&P, they wanted the federal funds and they wanted to regulate aerial hunting programs that they knew almost nothing about. That is about to change because GF&P is losing control of aerial hunting and it will now be under APHIS in South Dakota too.

GF&P does not require their game wardens to have the same permission slips that their trappers have to get. Why is that? Are game wardens more important than trappers? Trying telling that to ~SH~!

 

[P Joe]

By getting written permission from the landowner to do those compliance checks on private land the same way that our predator control pilots have to get signed permission before they can kill predators on private land.

The permission slips that GF&P makes the pilots sign only last for three years. The permission slip for game wardens would last indefinitely and they could get them signed weeks, months or years before they need them. How burdensome could that possibly be? I should point out that the GF&P trappers are also supposed to have those signed permission slips before they go on private land.

GF&P doesn't think it's too burdensome for our pilots to have to get permission from landowners every three years. Why should the game warden be treated differently? Especially when checking hunters is not nearly as important as controlling predators that can be devastating to livestock producers.

And what is GF&P suppose to do when told no?

We can take you theory and apply it to fishing regulations. Look how many people get nailed for over the limit on fish because GF&P is allowed to pull up to any boat for compliance checks. I know it keeps me from throughing an extra 1 or 2 fish in the live well.

Same thing with the SDHP, they can put road blocks up on any road for sobriety check points, which I consider compliance check.

I don't agree with a GF&P guy driving around a pasture, corn field looking for hunters. That to me is criminal trespass, but I don't disagree with a GF&P guy coming out onto my corn field to check my duck/goose hunters after they are done and picking up their decoys or coming out into my pasture after he saw me shoot a deer to make sure I have the proper tag.

If you close all private land to that, you eliminate any possible deterant to follow the laws.

 

[Liberty Belle]

P Joe, the game warden driving around on private property with absolutely NO reason to be there was one of the things that touched off this firestorm. Until we have a law forbidding those actions from ever happening again, the lockout will continue.

We really don't care if anyone else likes it or not, but then you've probably guessed that by now. GF&P is going to have to track hunters across public land because they aren't going to come in here.

 

[P Joe]

P Joe, the game warden driving around on private property with absolutely NO reason to be there was one of the things that touched off this firestorm. Until we have a law forbidding those actions from ever happening again, the lockout will continue.

We really don't care if anyone else likes it or not, but then you've probably guessed that by now. GF&P is going to have to track hunters across public land because they aren't going to come in here.

I understand that and agree. Which leads me back to one of my questions.

When have you caught a game warden on your personal property doing such???

 

[Liberty Belle]

P Joe, the game warden driving around on private property with absolutely NO reason to be there was one of the things that touched off this firestorm. Until we have a law forbidding those actions from ever happening again, the lockout will continue.

We really don't care if anyone else likes it or not, but then you've probably guessed that by now. GF&P is going to have to track hunters across public land because they aren't going to come in here.

I understand that and agree. Which leads me back to one of my questions.

When have you caught a game warden on your personal property doing such???

We've never caught one on our place, although several of our neighbors have. I've also never caught anyone else trespassing, stealing, rustling, or shooting livestock on our place, but all four have happened. Do you think that we should overlook these things just because we haven't caught the perpetrators?

There are laws on the books against rape, murder and arson. Should we overlook these crimes simply because none of them have happened on our land? If something is wrong, it's wrong everywhere. It wasn't just one game warden in one area that brought this problem to our attention. Trespass by GF&P has been a problem statewide and we refuse to allow it to continue.

If landowners in other parts of the state don't mind having GF&P trespass on their property, that's OK with us. We don't care if you don't mind them driving through your cornfields and hayfields. That's up to you. They just better not try it here.

Now I want to let you know that the new game warden we have here is an absolute sweetheart who would never dream of trespassing or trampling on landowners rights. Unfortunately, this nice kid is in the minority and none of the GF&P employees that caused these problems in the past have been fired. Some have been transferred to other areas, but most are still in the communities where the problems occurred. This tells us a lot about how concerned GF&P is with getting along with landowners.

 

[kolanuraven]

This tells us a lot about how concerned GF&P is with getting along with landowners.

It tells you how concerned they are with saving ' retirement'.

I have not had this problem...but some of the larger farms here have had problems with the Rangers coming in and out of fields and pastures, leaving gates open....driving thru fields that were plainly planted , etc, etc

It's not only SoDak that has these problems.

 

[Anonymous]

Now I want to let you know that the new game warden we have here is an absolute sweetheart who would never dream of trespassing or trampling on landowners rights. Unfortunately, this nice kid is in the minority and none of the GF&P employees that caused these problems in the past have been fired. Some have been transferred to other areas, but most are still in the communities where the problems occurred. This tells us a lot about how concerned GF&P is with getting along with landowners.

If SD operates anything like Montana- that kid won't stay there long...Over here--About the time a Warden gets to knowing his area- and the people in it- the powers above transfer him clear across the state... :shock:
And in most these State Agencies- to gain seniority and rank you have to transfer...
We did luck out a couple of times with both Wardens and Highway Patrol- that turned down promotions and transfers- and spent almost their entire careers here- ending up being leaders of the community...One I worked with retired from the Patrol--then took over as Police Chief, when the city had a great demand to fix a broken Dept.- served 10-15 years there- then went on to put 10 more years in as the elected Justice of the Peace...And now summers at his lake house- while wintering playing golf in Arizona....

 

[P Joe]

We've never caught one on our place, although several of our neighbors have. I've also never caught anyone else trespassing, stealing, rustling, or shooting livestock on our place, but all four have happened. Do you think that we should overlook these things just because we haven't caught the perpetrators?

Now I want to let you know that the new game warden we have here is an absolute sweetheart who would never dream of trespassing or trampling on landowners rights. Unfortunately, this nice kid is in the minority and none of the GF&P employees that caused these problems in the past have been fired. Some have been transferred to other areas, but most are still in the communities where the problems occurred. This tells us a lot about how concerned GF&P is with getting along with landowners.

I never said it doesn't happen elsewheres, but are you not making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If you have never had a problem with GF&P personally, I've never had the amount of trouble you claim, ahem.... :roll: your neighbors to have had, then don't you think it might be a personell problem more than a GF&P departmental problem??

Your reply really does make me laugh though, you seem to beat up on SDHunter, public hunter about reading and citing cases that support their point-of-view, yet you whole BEEF is HEAR SAY from what YOUR NEIGHBORS have complained about!! :shock:

Funny isn't it??? Now before you go on a rant, let me shorten it up for you.

I don't care if you stay locked out, add new people to you lockout, or stay locked out thru the next 10 generations!! :wink: I didn't type any of this to change you mind. You have shown you bias against GF&P, for whatever reason, and this whole lockout thing is some stupid way to vent your anger. You say you'll allow hunting again once the laws get changed. I can see that is just a farse. You'll never give in until you get GF&P shutdown, reorganized, or something similar. And it is truely sad to watch some one waste so much time because they are filled with resentment and anger!

 

[publichunter]

p joe careful now she is going to call you Tony Dean......

 

[Happy go lucky]

LB I'm not a CO but I also have common sense in these matters and have a lot of insight in wildlife. If you advertise ways to promote poaching more will take place!!!!! How hard is that to understand?

Hunting is big business in many states and some will take advantage LB that is common sense, to state otherwise is naive or dumb, as we would all just cause more problems in the situation you would like to see enacted. Again common sense. You might be a law abiding landowner, doesn't mean all are that way and surely you would have more take advantage of first obtaining permission and if none granted it is free reign on that ground! Common sense tells you with the money that "could" be gained and a lock out in it's own right of law enforcement in dealing with specialized circumstances you would invite more illegal activity.

This is a legit concern of any wildlife division in any state more so in those states of much larger land tracts. You complain of landowner abuse but your cases are all second hand, how many have been factually proven out? How many are more MT Lion stories of 100+ lions in a day killed in Washington state? Creditability is slim LB sorry the facts are against you. I deal in facts and common sense many sportsman have it and many landowners as well, on both sides the bad apples get all the street talk and media coverage and it would be bad for both sides in your state or anyone's if what you proclaim as fair took place. COMMON SENSE LB Good Day!

I'm all for landowners rights and I'm also for the protection of public domain which all wildlife is public domain. Why you have a problem with this is beyond me must date back to great grand pa or something.

Here is a question, say you wrote up a law stating they ask first to check license, and if you say No then they have the right to check anyway hows that in your eye's? Unless they had intel that convinced a judge to allow un asked permission would that satisfy you? Yes or NO?

I already know the answer but I want you to comment on it. Good day LB "Don't worry be happy". Your game warden will be a sweet heart until the day he has to cite a good friend or relative over a stupid deer,antelope,turkey or some other critter correct?

 

[Liberty Belle]

LB I'm not a CO but I also have common sense in these matters and have a lot of insight in wildlife. If you advertise ways to promote poaching more will take place!!!!! How hard is that to understand?

Hunting is big business in many states and some will take advantage LB that is common sense, to state otherwise is naive or dumb, as we would all just cause more problems in the situation you would like to see enacted. Again common sense. You might be a law abiding landowner, doesn't mean all are that way and surely you would have more take advantage of first obtaining permission and if none granted it is free reign on that ground! Common sense tells you with the money that "could" be gained and a lock out in it's own right of law enforcement in dealing with specialized circumstances you would invite more illegal activity.

This is a legit concern of any wildlife division in any state more so in those states of much larger land tracts. You complain of landowner abuse but your cases are all second hand, how many have been factually proven out? How many are more MT Lion stories of 100+ lions in a day killed in Washington state? Creditability is slim LB sorry the facts are against you. I deal in facts and common sense many sportsman have it and many landowners as well, on both sides the bad apples get all the street talk and media coverage and it would be bad for both sides in your state or anyone's if what you proclaim as fair took place. COMMON SENSE LB Good Day!

I'm all for landowners rights and I'm also for the protection of public domain which all wildlife is public domain. Why you have a problem with this is beyond me must date back to great grand pa or something.

Here is a question, say you wrote up a law stating they ask first to check license, and if you say No then they have the right to check anyway hows that in your eye's? Unless they had intel that convinced a judge to allow un asked permission would that satisfy you? Yes or NO?

I already know the answer but I want you to comment on it. Good day LB "Don't worry be happy". Your game warden will be a sweet heart until the day he has to cite a good friend or relative over a stupid deer,antelope,turkey or some other critter correct?

Happy, did you go off your medication again? You're rambling and not making a lick of sense. :???:

Go lay down and if you don't get over that lost-in-space feeling soon, call a doctor.

 

[Liberty Belle]

We've never caught one on our place, although several of our neighbors have. I've also never caught anyone else trespassing, stealing, rustling, or shooting livestock on our place, but all four have happened. Do you think that we should overlook these things just because we haven't caught the perpetrators?

Now I want to let you know that the new game warden we have here is an absolute sweetheart who would never dream of trespassing or trampling on landowners rights. Unfortunately, this nice kid is in the minority and none of the GF&P employees that caused these problems in the past have been fired. Some have been transferred to other areas, but most are still in the communities where the problems occurred. This tells us a lot about how concerned GF&P is with getting along with landowners.

I never said it doesn't happen elsewheres, but are you not making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If you have never had a problem with GF&P personally, I've never had the amount of trouble you claim, ahem.... :roll: your neighbors to have had, then don't you think it might be a personell problem more than a GF&P departmental problem??

Your reply really does make me laugh though, you seem to beat up on SDHunter, public hunter about reading and citing cases that support their point-of-view, yet you whole BEEF is HEAR SAY from what YOUR NEIGHBORS have complained about!! :shock:

Funny isn't it??? Now before you go on a rant, let me shorten it up for you.

I don't care if you stay locked out, add new people to you lockout, or stay locked out thru the next 10 generations!! :wink: I didn't type any of this to change you mind. You have shown you bias against GF&P, for whatever reason, and this whole lockout thing is some stupid way to vent your anger. You say you'll allow hunting again once the laws get changed. I can see that is just a farse. You'll never give in until you get GF&P shutdown, reorganized, or something similar. And it is truely sad to watch some one waste so much time because they are filled with resentment and anger!

Just because I haven't personally caught a game warden trespassing on our land doesn't mean that I and most of the landowners I know haven't had a myriad of problems with GF&F. I don't have time to list all of them for you again. Suffice it to say that this is not a fight between little ol' me and a game warden, this issue is much broader than just a local fuss over one trespass.

This statement of yours pretty well sums up our position: "You'll never give in until you get GF&P shutdown, reorganized, or something similar." I'm glad you've been able to understand where we're coming from.

Contrary to your last sentence, we are neither resentful nor angry. We ARE determined to stand our ground to protect our property and we're doing a darn good job of that, if I say so myself!

 

[P Joe]

This statement of yours pretty well sums up our position: "You'll never give in until you get GF&P shutdown, reorganized, or something similar." I'm glad you've been able to understand where we're coming from.

This sounds like a school room full of scolded children who will stop at nothing to pull a prank on the teacher to get even.

Contrary to your last sentence, we are neither resentful nor angry. We ARE determined to stand our ground to protect our property and we're doing a darn good job of that, if I say so myself!

No you don't, according to you, GF&P could still do what ever they damn well please and their isn't much you could legal do about it. So really what have you changed??
NOTHING. The only thing you have going for you is GF&P wants to get a-long. If and when that changes, you will be back in the same ole boat from 7 years ago!!

 

[Happy go lucky]

LB why not answer the points I brought up and put it on public record?

 

[Liberty Belle]

This statement of yours pretty well sums up our position: "You'll never give in until you get GF&P shutdown, reorganized, or something similar." I'm glad you've been able to understand where we're coming from.

This sounds like a school room full of scolded children who will stop at nothing to pull a prank on the teacher to get even.

Huh? That was your quote, not mine.

Contrary to your last sentence, we are neither resentful nor angry. We ARE determined to stand our ground to protect our property and we're doing a darn good job of that, if I say so myself!

No you don't, according to you, GF&P could still do what ever they damn well please and their isn't much you could legal do about it. So really what have you changed??
NOTHING. The only thing you have going for you is GF&P wants to get a-long. If and when that changes, you will be back in the same ole boat from 7 years ago!!

No I don't what? Try to be coherent, will you?

The most important thing we've done is stopping GF&P from trespassing on our private land. Another important thing we have gotten changed is that GF&P can't do anything to landowners that won't get immediate media attention, thanks to several legislators, property rights groups, and agriculture organizations. The media spotlight is focused on them and that bright light can be just a tad disconcerting.

GF&P is trying to at least make it look like they are trying to get along with us because they have to. It's not out of the goodness of their heart. If and when that changes, GF&P will cease to exist as a state agency. And you can take that one to the bank.

 

[Liberty Belle]

LB why not answer the points I brought up and put it on public record?

If you haven't been able to figure out where I stand on these issues you're even dumber than I thought. I've made no secret of my position or my name, unlike you, publichunter, Southdakotahunter, and P Joe, who hide behind a curtain of anonymity while you take potshots at those of us who disagree with you.

I like having things on public record!! Now, since I've made no secret of who I am and what I stand for, how about you do the same? You can start by giving us your name and occupation - just for the public record. :???:

Come on, I double dog dare ya! :twisted: