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US Beef is not popular with US Consumers

T: "Scott did you ever back up your statement that Korea will not take our beef unless we take live cattle from Canada? If you did I missed it."

I know what I read. I am not going to spend hours and hours looking for the direct quote. If you don't want to believe it, I really don't care.

I've met hundreds of challenges just like this one.

My history of accuracy speaks for itself.

I refuse to prove every statement I make unless it's convenient for me.

When you can prove anything I have stated as being inaccurate, you will have leverage on me. Not until!



~SH~
 
RobertMac said:
Sandhusker, speaking of beer...have you seen Anheuser Busch's commercials of late...the only wholely USA-owned beer in America. If it wasn't so late, I'd have a Bud Ice!!!!!

Do you have any evidence that it has boosted sales-just curious? It is the RESULTS that count. Have a great day.
 
SH: "Being the packer blamer you are, why do you suddenly trust the large packers to label beef correctly without an enforceable traceback system????? Hmmmm???"

The same way all regulations are enforced...USDA inspectors!

I'm with you...let's do away with all exemptions and label all foods. If had comprehended what I wrote earlier, you would understand that I said the benefit would be an integrity issue. Reader (the Second) explained very simply what the consumer wants...Tasty and Safe . Labeling would come under the "Safety" part.

SH: "If you are going to insist on selling "BORN, RAISED, AND PROCESSED IN THE U.S." BEEF, you have to be able to enforce it with a traceback system. "

You only have to add "BORN and RAISED" on the label...the address(and the Establishment number) of the processor is required information on a USDA label.

SH: "If they were concerned about the health of domestic beef wouldn't they just buy chicken, pork, or fish????? "

Beef has lost 45% market share to chicken!!!!!!!!! DUHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

SH: "To believe that Tyson would buy ibp and allow their beef sales to slip so they could sell more chicken proves to me that there is no logic in the conspiring mind."

That's because you didn't comprehend the logic...Tyson and the other multi-species processors are in all proteins so a shift in consumer preference doesn't have a devastating effect on profitability.

SH: "...pointing out how incredibly arrogant it is to assume that the large packers are not concerned about ecoli."

Ignoring 33 POSITIVE Ecoli is stupid and not an assumption...assuming it didn't have any effect on consumers is foolish.

SH: "Finally, from the depths of conspiracy comes the voice of reason. You are correct but unfortunately, you may never be involved in the beef processing and marketing business to a level that would teach you how little you know about the companies you blame."

I'm in the beef business from conception to the consumer...my size doesn't change the reality. I don't blame large multi-national, multi-species packers...they're just my competition.

I see Dr. Dick Diven is having a school in Pierre, SD Aug. 15-18. It would be well worth anyone's time and money to attend.
 
RobertMac wrote:
Sandhusker, speaking of beer...have you seen Anheuser Busch's commercials of late...the only wholely USA-owned beer in America. If it wasn't so late, I'd have a Bud Ice!!!!!


Agman: "Do you have any evidence that it has boosted sales-just curious? It is the RESULTS that count. Have a great day."

I bought an extra six pack last week to celabrate the news...does that count? Take care.
 
Soapweed said:
Points taken, Sandhusker. Besides, it's just not very smart or "good business" to get my banker too mad and down on me. :wink:

Nor is it smart to get your customers down on you! :lol:

We need to sit down with a jug of Dr. Pepper so I can deprogram you. :wink:
 
Agman, "It is readily apparent this subject is way over your head. I simply don't have time to waste on your senseless position. You have no fact to go on-just baseless assumptions. Call a few of your friends and go outside and play in your sandbox."

I expected nothing less from you, Agman. "Just take my word for it and go pi$$ off because I'm smarter than you". :roll: Have a happy day.
 
RM: "The same way all regulations are enforced...USDA inspectors!"

Then if you are going to entrust USDA to enforce it YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO THEM WHEN THEY TELL YOU WHAT WILL BE REQUIRED TO ENFORCE IT.

You can't have it both ways.


RM: "I'm with you...let's do away with all exemptions and label all foods."

That's not my position, spinner. I don't support a government mandate to do what the free enterprise system could do IF CONSUMERS WERE ASKING FOR IT TO JUSTIFY IT.


RM: "If had comprehended what I wrote earlier, you would understand that I said the benefit would be an integrity issue. Reader (the Second) explained very simply what the consumer wants...Tasty and Safe . Labeling would come under the "Safety" part."

You didn't even comprehend what you wrote earlier.

Reader (the Second) did not include PRICE or CONVENIENCE in consumer motives. Price is huge!


RM: "You only have to add "BORN and RAISED" on the label...the address(and the Establishment number) of the processor is required information on a USDA label."

Which does not circumvent the need for a traceback system to enforce the "BORN AND RAISED" requirements of "M"COOL.



RM: " Beef has lost 45% market share to chicken!!!!!!!!! DUHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!"

Not solely because of Con Agra's ecoli problem. Beef lost market share to chicken due to chicken adding value to their product while blamer's in the beef industry were too busy bitching about packer concentration, captive supplies, and other "scapegoats" to be adding value to their product. Discretionary income also favored chicken over beef.

They beat us on price and they beat us on value until the consumers had the money to where the quality of beef was worth the price.


RM: "Tyson and the other multi-species processors are in all proteins so a shift in consumer preference doesn't have a devastating effect on profitability."

True but they are still trying to sell as much of each protein as they can having no favorites.


RM: "Ignoring 33 POSITIVE Ecoli is stupid and not an assumption...assuming it didn't have any effect on consumers is foolish."

What's stupid is to assume that the large packers ignored this problem when they spent millions in food safety technology.

What's even more stupid is to not think that these outbreaks would cost their companies millions.

You lost on both accounts.



RM: "I see Dr. Dick Diven is having a school in Pierre, SD Aug. 15-18. It would be well worth anyone's time and money to attend."

I agree. His "low cost" ideas are worth consideration.



~SH~
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Just for those that want M cool we passed a resolution at SSGA convention that all meat slaughtered in Canada be labeled Product of Canada any meat that is just Processed in Canada be labeled that. Of course that is our opinion but now we lobby for this. For those R-CALFers that how the process works.

Big Muddy- I think you guys have the right idea started--Especially with the possibilities of AFTA- CAFTA- AFTOA opening up the US and Canada to more imported beef and cattle....At least your consumers will have a little more choice...Be interesting to see how much the packers will fight these designations.....

As far as lobbying goes- we do again have a lobbying group- R-CALF...Had one years ago with NCA and NCBA- until they sold their souls...
 
OT: "As far as lobbying goes- we do again have a lobbying group- R-CALF...Had one years ago with NCA and NCBA- until they sold their souls..."

He said "lobbying group" OT, not "lying" group.

R-CULT was lost when they sold their souls to the Livestock Marketing Police.


~SH~
 
Sandhusker said:
Agman, "It is readily apparent this subject is way over your head. I simply don't have time to waste on your senseless position. You have no fact to go on-just baseless assumptions. Call a few of your friends and go outside and play in your sandbox."

I expected nothing less from you, Agman. "Just take my word for it and go p*** off because I'm smarter than you". :roll: Have a happy day.

Dream on Charlie Brown!!!!
 
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Just for those that want M cool we passed a resolution at SSGA convention that all meat slaughtered in Canada be labeled Product of Canada any meat that is just Processed in Canada be labeled that. Of course that is our opinion but now we lobby for this. For those R-CALFers that how the process works.

Big Muddy- I think you guys have the right idea started--Especially with the possibilities of AFTA- CAFTA- AFTOA opening up the US and Canada to more imported beef and cattle....At least your consumers will have a little more choice...Be interesting to see how much the packers will fight these designations....

{OT, why would you be against an agreement that will cut out the tariffs of up to 40% we must pay to sell beef to those countries, when they already can sell beef here little or no tariffs? MRJ}



As far as lobbying goes- we do again have a lobbying group- R-CALF...Had one years ago with NCA and NCBA- until they sold their souls...

{There you go again......you just can't tell the truth! Why do you believe the cattle producer members of NCBA have no right to lobby for policies we believe will best suit our business? MRJ}
 
Sandhusker: "I see where you're coming from, Man-of-the-Yucca, but your profits from demand depend on the level of your participation. Just because the commodity you are selling is doing well, it doesn't necessarily mean you are. Prime example is the fast-food industry. Industry sales could be thru the roof, but if everybody is buying Big Macs, Burger King gets nothing from the increased demand. Instead, they're weakened because their competition has gained strength."

Have done a little more head scratching about the subject (I don't dare do too much, 'cause the ol' hair is thin enough as it), and here are a few more thoughts. You say if everybody is buying Big Macs, Burger King gets nothing from the increased demand. I would venture to guess that if McDonalds are doing well, Burger King WOULD benefit from increased burger demand, riding on the coattails of the fact that "eating burgers is cool." Sure, McDonalds thinks that advertising pays, or they wouldn't be doing it. It does pay, and they sell more hamburgers than before. Their eating establishments get crowded, so a few people that would have eaten at McDonalds decide to eat at Burger King where it is less crowded. A few other customers think that Big Macs taste good, but decide they'd also like to try the competition. Soon all hamburger joints are doing well, but not as well as McDonalds because after all, advertising does pay.

Look at the long ago ads from Wendy's, where Clara Peller uttered the battle cry of the burger, "Where's the BEEF?" The whole Beef Industry benefitted from that famous ad. All other hamburger joints "rode the coattails" of the Wendy's campaign, and even the fancier steak houses, other restaraunts, and grocery stores saw increased beef sales.

If cattle prices are better than usual, the only producers that don't benefit from the increase in prices are those who don't sell during their window of opportunity. For instance, if a rancher is in the habit of selling calves at weaning time, and prices are at an all time high, it would be a darn poor time to experiment with retained ownership and feed those calves on out until they are "harvested." On the other hand, if calf prices aren't too good, and their banker sanctions the deal, then would be a good time to gamble and retain ownership.

Here is another can of worms that I'll open for conversation's sake. We all know that Ted Turner is the bad guy :wink: that is buying up way too much land and turning it into buffalo ranches. I sure don't like the thought of him ruining ranching as it used to be, but looking at it from a different perspective, he is in a way "helping" those of us who choose to remain and run cattle. The buffalo that he is introducing are displacing cattle that used to run on the land. That makes the cattle that are left that much more valuable, because less supply turns into more demand.

Feel free to correct me. I reserve the right to change my mind at any time. :wink:
 
Soapweed said:
Sandhusker: "I see where you're coming from, Man-of-the-Yucca, but your profits from demand depend on the level of your participation. Just because the commodity you are selling is doing well, it doesn't necessarily mean you are. Prime example is the fast-food industry. Industry sales could be thru the roof, but if everybody is buying Big Macs, Burger King gets nothing from the increased demand. Instead, they're weakened because their competition has gained strength."

Have done a little more head scratching about the subject (I don't dare do too much, 'cause the ol' hair is thin enough as it), and here are a few more thoughts. You say if everybody is buying Big Macs, Burger King gets nothing from the increased demand. I would venture to guess that if McDonalds are doing well, Burger King WOULD benefit from increased burger demand, riding on the coattails of the fact that "eating burgers is cool." Sure, McDonalds thinks that advertising pays, or they wouldn't be doing it. It does pay, and they sell more hamburgers than before. Their eating establishments get crowded, so a few people that would have eaten at McDonalds decide to eat at Burger King where it is less crowded. A few other customers think that Big Macs taste good, but decide they'd also like to try the competition. Soon all hamburger joints are doing well, but not as well as McDonalds because after all, advertising does pay.

Look at the long ago ads from Wendy's, where Clara Peller uttered the battle cry of the burger, "Where's the BEEF?" The whole Beef Industry benefitted from that famous ad. All other hamburger joints "rode the coattails" of the Wendy's campaign, and even the fancier steak houses, other restaraunts, and grocery stores saw increased beef sales.

If cattle prices are better than usual, the only producers that don't benefit from the increase in prices are those who don't sell during their window of opportunity. For instance, if a rancher is in the habit of selling calves at weaning time, and prices are at an all time high, it would be a darn poor time to experiment with retained ownership and feed those calves on out until they are "harvested." On the other hand, if calf prices aren't too good, and their banker sanctions the deal, then would be a good time to gamble and retain ownership.

Here is another can of worms that I'll open for conversation's sake. We all know that Ted Turner is the bad guy :wink: that is buying up way too much land and turning it into buffalo ranches. I sure don't like the thought of him ruining ranching as it used to be, but looking at it from a different perspective, he is in a way "helping" those of us who choose to remain and run cattle. The buffalo that he is introducing are displacing cattle that used to run on the land. That makes the cattle that are left that much more valuable, because less supply turns into more demand.

Feel free to correct me. I reserve the right to change my mind at any time. :wink:

Soapweed, have you ever noticed that car dealers locate across from each other in most cases? Likewise major supermarkets locate close to each other. That is kind of like the burger thing. It is called "residual gain".
 
Agman...Soapweed, have you ever noticed that car dealers locate across from each other in most cases? Likewise major supermarkets locate close to each other. That is kind of like the burger thing. It is called "residual gain".

If what you say is true agman, why don't car dealers pool their advertising money and advertise Chevy's one week, Fords the next, and so on. Likewise with burger joints, why do McDonalds, Wendy's, and Burger King advertise their own brand? If what you say is right then they have no need to do brand name advertising, just a generic one would do.

Can't you just hear them saying, "we don't care which place you eat at"?

"Just Eat a Burger Today"
 
reader (the Second) said:
Toyota is a poor example, I agree. When we started buying Toyotas in 1977, unlike U.S. cars, they did not fall apart immediately (door handles, window knobs, etc.) and every Toyota we have had lasted until 200,000 miles.

Ford is the only brand that rivals Toyota. The U.S. auto manufacturers did it to themselves. It had nothing to do with either price or with what was "in", simply with a good product.

Food is entirely different, especially perishable food. However I agree that if foreign products are judged to be safer and taste good, they will give U.S. products a run for their money, even in perishable food.

You all have been saying how bad hamburger bought in the supermarket tastes and some of us have noticed this and looked for designer beef such as Coleman.

The producers, packers, and supermarkets would do themselves a service to start selling smaller portions of really tasty beef. Believe me, the consumers would notice. That plus an ad campaign.

{What is your point of the "smaller portions"?.....if a consumer needs two pounds of hamburger to prepare the recipe, or for the grill.....he NEEDS two pounds or some of his family or guests will go hungry! MRJ}

Tasty and safe.
 
reader (the Second) said:
MRJ - please get a lesson in using "quote".

My point was about steaks and other cuts of meat and size thereof. I was not thinking of hamburger. Hamburger in my supermarket only comes in 1 lb packages in any case :D

Sorry if I offended you when I thought that, since you specifically mentioned hamburger, you referred to that in your comment.

Yes, it would be nice to have smaller individual steaks in some cases. We just cook one and cut it into serving sizes when they are too large. Or share one when eating out, if various sizes are not available.

Some people are raising mini-sized breeds of cattle to achieve that end.

Others are cutting back on the size of our cattle by using more English and less of Continental influence in our herds.

BTW, Coleman beef is a great example of voluntary labeling and ID....private enterprise at it's best!

MRJ
 
Tommy said:
Agman...Soapweed, have you ever noticed that car dealers locate across from each other in most cases? Likewise major supermarkets locate close to each other. That is kind of like the burger thing. It is called "residual gain".

If what you say is true agman, why don't car dealers pool their advertising money and advertise Chevy's one week, Fords the next, and so on. Likewise with burger joints, why do McDonalds, Wendy's, and Burger King advertise their own brand? If what you say is right then they have no need to do brand name advertising, just a generic one would do.

Can't you just hear them saying, "we don't care which place you eat at"?

"Just Eat a Burger Today"

You missed the point Tommy. I said "residual gain". Why don't you pay attention to facts and results as opposed to making assumptions?
 
reader (the Second) said:
I would be buying only Coleman but the store that sells it is 20 minutes away. They are building a new one close to me and then I'll switch to Coleman hamburger and steak and brisket...

You just helped make the point reader, convienience and price are factors in buying descisions too.
 
Soapweed,
I'll give you your arguements - you have valid points. But, being the mouthy beligerent cuss that I am, I've got a rebuttal.

Burger King could possibly benefit from McDonald's success, but compared to McDonalds, what would their portion of the profits be? You are right about riding the coattails, but is that the best way to do it? Judging by the billions companies spend on THEIR PRODUCT exclusively, I'd say not. Risidual sales help, but exclusive advertising pays the bills.

I'll agree with you about Ted. My main concern is that his lands stay on the tax rolls.
 
reader (the Second) said:
Can we say "curmudgeon"? :wink:

If the shoes fits, wear it Agman :lol: :lol: :lol:

You are free to refute with factual presentation any thing which I have commented on.
 

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