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visit with an urbanite

Oldtimer-"Right now I'm not concerned about which farm it came off of- just tell us what country it was born, raised and slaughtered in...."

......And you verify and prove that HOW???? (remember that just marking the imports is not an option under current law)

Whatever the cost of COOL labelling is, who do you feel should have to pay for it? The producer or the consumer?? This is a simple question that only requires a one word answer, OT!!! :lol:
 
Lot cheaper to Country verify all beef than it will be to source verify small quantity's.....Right now I'm not concerned about which farm it came off of- just tell us what country it was born, raised and slaughtered in....
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So if an animal test positive for a disease it isn't important to you to know what rancher raise that animal so you can clean up the problem only the country in which it was born. :roll: that is why you better pray and pray hard that the US never finds a case of BSE. But if you believe R-CALF and that the science to protect Canada was wrong I think you better pray for a miracle too. You are truely amazing Oldtimer.
 
Sandhusker
.....He asked me what the USDA stamp meant if it didn't mean the meat was from the US. I told him that it meant it had passed inspection to the USDA's standards. His reply, "Is it our guys or whatever countries guys?" I told him it was the other country's guys inspecting to our standards. He replied, "So what's stopping them from slapping that stamp on some crap and sending it to us - we just take their word for it?"
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Oldtimer
.....but the butcher had to tell them he was stuck with what the supplier brought him and did not have an idea until he went to cutting it and saw the Canadian stamps, which came off when he trimmed and the USDA stamp went on...
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???
 
TimH said:
Oldtimer-"Right now I'm not concerned about which farm it came off of- just tell us what country it was born, raised and slaughtered in...."

......And you verify and prove that HOW???? (remember that just marking the imports is not an option under current law)

Whatever the cost of COOL labelling is, who do you feel should have to pay for it? The producer or the consumer?? This is a simple question that only requires a one word answer, OT!!! :lol:
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Easily verified- everything coming in boxed is already labeled- just don't allow the packers and retailers to cut off the markings and relabel with a USDA stamp and pass off as US product when they individually package- everything live is or by USDA proposed rule will be hot branded- segregate and identify-- they did it for the Japanese before, they could surely do it for our own consumers.....Or did the packers lie to the Japanese that it was US beef?

I think the cost will be shouldered by both the consumer and the producer (because the packers and retailers never do), but it will become cost positive to US producers and in the long run when a few more "free" trade agreements are signed and if Canada doesn't come up with 5-10-15 more BSE cases, will be cost positive to producers of both countries- And with everything labeled the cost to the consumer would be much less than "source verified"... Those that want South Dakota grass fed verified beef or Manitoba barley fed verified could still pay the cost of that- but at least the average person would have the choice of Country of origin beef....

If we in the cattle industry don't force the beef industry to do it, I think you will see it done by the courts--- May even come out of the current border suit.... If not, I think the consumer groups will force it thru the courts and what the courts legislate may be much worse and costly than what we would want.... Every article in the paper and story on the radio about the Canadian BSE problems educates many more consumers of the USDA fraudulent labeling practices......

People that were in the Billings courtroom the other day said the Judge outright questioned how this imported meat could be being passed off as a US product- some said that they felt that if they filed another injunction against all Canadian beef the judge would sign it until the US government developed a way to label it, especially after he found out how much was already coming across...... I guess that is a decision R-CALF will now have to make.....

Remember Judge Cebull is a pretty down to earth common judge- not known to be that liberal and if he indicated he felt that way, what will happen if it gets to the 9th Circuit-- the court from the land of fruits and nuts that can go either way and usually goes way overboard either which way they decide-- They may order Canada into being annexed by Mexico....You never know with them.....
 
Great idea- only question I have is will it be marketed in all areas of the country nationwide and what will the additional cost be?-- My daughter is a single parent mother and has a very limited income- can she afford to buy my grandkids hamburger or beef that she knows is from the US and she feels is of less risk than Canadian? I have no problem with branded programs- seen several come and go in our area, but they priced ($30 steaks and $5 a lb hamburger) themselves out of existence because of the limited quanitity of cattle they could handle, the small (very upperclass) regional areas they targeted and the distance to their markets.....
Personally I have always felt that many of the branded programs was a bourgeois concept, especially since the Canadian BSE issue-- let the rich buy safe US beef, but the peasants can take their chances.... From what I'm hearing from some in the courtroom, that was the feeling that Judge Cebull left them with too- some felt that if another injunction was filed, he or the courts would shut down the whole border imports until the products are labeled.....
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OT,

Instead of finding ambition enough to get involved in a branded beef program, you would rather sit back, let some judge stick a worthless MCOOL law/burden on US producers and let all the single mothers eat the cheap hamburger coming from cattle fed chicken manure.


Maybe if MCOOL is passed only the very affluent will be able to afford quality Canadian beef? Then what will you do, OT? :-)
 
Bull Burger said:
Great idea- only question I have is will it be marketed in all areas of the country nationwide and what will the additional cost be?-- My daughter is a single parent mother and has a very limited income- can she afford to buy my grandkids hamburger or beef that she knows is from the US and she feels is of less risk than Canadian? I have no problem with branded programs- seen several come and go in our area, but they priced ($30 steaks and $5 a lb hamburger) themselves out of existence because of the limited quanitity of cattle they could handle, the small (very upperclass) regional areas they targeted and the distance to their markets.....
Personally I have always felt that many of the branded programs was a bourgeois concept, especially since the Canadian BSE issue-- let the rich buy safe US beef, but the peasants can take their chances.... From what I'm hearing from some in the courtroom, that was the feeling that Judge Cebull left them with too- some felt that if another injunction was filed, he or the courts would shut down the whole border imports until the products are labeled.....
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OT,

Instead of finding ambition enough to get involved in a branded beef program, you would rather sit back, let some judge stick a worthless MCOOL law/burden on US producers and let all the single mothers eat the cheap hamburger coming from cattle fed chicken manure.


Maybe if MCOOL is passed only the very affluent will be able to afford quality Canadian beef? Then what will you do, OT? :-)
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I don't have a problem with Canada marketing all their beef as a branded beef product as long as it has a big "Product of Canada" label on it when its sold at the store....
 
Bull Burger said:
Oldtimer said:
I don't have a problem with Canada marketing all their beef as a branded beef product as long as it has a big "Product of Canada" label on it when its sold at the store....
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What if the single mothers can't afford it?
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As well known as our government is for finding a way to keep food costs down, I'm sure they will keep the food costs low enough for all--All I ask is that they provide all the consumers with all the info to make their own decision rather than having them play three card monte every time they purchase beef......
 
OT: "As well known as our government is for finding a way to keep food costs down, I'm sure they will keep the food costs low enough for all--"

Can you explain the correlation between higher cattle prices and finding a way to keep food costs down?

This should be an interesting divertion.



~SH~
 
Oldtimer
I enjoy reading your posts but I can't figure why your poor daughter has to eat beef from the store :shock: My family eats what is raised on the farm and we all benifit from it. Maybe you should council her to become a vegan if you are concerned for her health! If a few cents a pound is keeping her away from branded beef she is probably eating ''cheap'' chicken anyway.
your friend
Mike
 
Oldtimer said:
As well known as our government is for finding a way to keep food costs down, I'm sure they will keep the food costs low enough for all........
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What are you suggesting, OT? Socialized food costs? That should be great for cattlemen and farmers! Or maybe just something similar to Nixon's '73 beef price ceiling? So we can get back to 30 cent calves?

Like ~SH~ said:
~SH~ said:
Can you explain the correlation between higher cattle prices and finding a way to keep food costs down?
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We can't have it both ways!
 
Texan said:
Oldtimer said:
As well known as our government is for finding a way to keep food costs down, I'm sure they will keep the food costs low enough for all........
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What are you suggesting, OT? Socialized food costs? That should be great for cattlemen and farmers! Or maybe just something similar to Nixon's '73 beef price ceiling? So we can get back to 30 cent calves?

Like ~SH~ said:
~SH~ said:
Can you explain the correlation between higher cattle prices and finding a way to keep food costs down?
Click to expand...
We can't have it both ways!
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Texan- Historically for the past 50+ years the US food costs have been the lowest, percentage wise compared to income, of most countries in the world-- much of this was done by government control- buyup programs, subsidies, trade agreements etc. Altho GW talks about it, I don't see any fast trend for this to change.....

I think if you look at the prices ranchers are receiving now and the comparison to what wages have risen out in the real world, we are on the negative side-- this accounts for why consumers are still willing to pay for even the prices retailers are asking.....

According to GAO, MCOOL cost to implement would be quite minimal... I have to believe them over the heavily lobbied USDA.... Labeling beef would not cost that much for the consumer and would leave many of the issues we argue on this site to the decision of that consumer....

I read a post the other day on another site made by a Canadian-- they talked of how the USDA stamp used to be the most highly respected mark in the world- and how now with the Judges multiple rulings, Senates vote of no-confidence in the USDA, and major questioning of USDA's policies- the stamp and faith in the USDA had been irreparably damaged..... Naturally, since the post was from a Canadian, they were mostly blaming R-CALF... I had to agree with most of the post- but I took the blame one step further and put it right back on USDA's doorstep-- their backing of the big packer interests, appearances of putting trade above food safety, and whoring out of the USDA stamp has made all of their actions come into question....
 
Oldtimer said:
I read a post the other day on another site made by a Canadian-- they talked of how the USDA stamp used to be the most highly respected mark in the world- and how now with the Judges multiple rulings, Senates vote of no-confidence in the USDA, and major questioning of USDA's policies- the stamp and faith in the USDA had been irreparably damaged..... Naturally, since the post was from a Canadian, they were mostly blaming R-CALF... I had to agree with most of the post...........
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You're right Oldtimer, R-CALF with the help of PETA, Consumers Union, Consumers League, WORC, LMA, OCM, CCMP, etc. have kept the public confused and misinformed on beef safety issues. If or when we have a native case, it could be a wreck.
 

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