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Voluntary BSE testing for animals over 20 months

Help Support Ranchers.net:

Do you support allowing voluntary BSE testing for over 20 month animals?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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that's because no one else is willing to do it right now. What happens if it becomes the norm?

What about other testing, for other ailments/deseases, will that be on a customer by customer basis too? Will it be used as a trade barrier?

What will livestock breeders be willing to test for, before they sell to their neighbor, if testing is made public?

Will you pay for foot and mouth testing, for all your bull customers? Low risk of having it, but hey, your customers are asking for it.

It's a steep slope
 
Forgot to mention OT, they have offered to pay for a dead animal test. What will they do if there is a live test, ask for a certificate, before they buy?

They are using that offer as a competitive advantage at present, if it works, do you not think more will follow suit and make it a requirement, or chargeback?

The packers pull the strings, remember?
 
Murgen said:
Forgot to mention OT, they have offered to pay for a dead animal test. What will they do if there is a live test, ask for a certificate, before they buy?

They are using that offer as a competitive advantage at present, if it works, do you not think more will follow suit and make it a requirement, or chargeback?

The packers pull the strings, remember?

They will try as long as they have the followers who bow to their every wish like Jason, Tam and you..... :roll:
 
They will try as long as they have the followers who bow to their every wish like Jason, Tam and you.....

I'm saying that producers will eventually end up paying for voluntary testing if it is ever approved.

Do you really think the government can be persuaded to pay for testing that they don't believe in?

The only way to convince them will be to have the 99% of the public not involved in Agriculture to ask for it. And the only way for that to happen is to follow along the road of telling them our product is NOT safe.

How is my opinion blowing for the packers?
 
The United States has struggled to restore beef exports to overseas markets, including South Korea and Japan, that totaled $3.8 billion annually before mad cow was first discovered.

$8 to $ 10 billion could have paid for a lot of tests :!:
 
Murgen,


OT really doesnt have to worry about cattle packers because he's a horse rancher not a cattle rancher.....Hey OT when are you going to form R-COLT :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
As for Jasons comments about urine collection, he has obviously never heard of a Nielson Tube! Also, urine can be taken from the bladder at the time of slaughter and results from the test provided while the meat is hanging in the cooler. It is not rocket science to put together a logistical method for the conducting of tests. It takes less than two minutes in the squeeze to take a sample. Bulls give up their samples following the kill floor.
 
Is the cost of the tube included in your cost estimate bse tester?

Do you know the effect 2 minutes in a chute can have on an animal right before slaughter?

Anyone pushing for 100% testing has an agenda. I think Canada has tested enough animals to make it plain we don't have BSE running rampant through our herd.

Testing older highest risk animals seems to be the most logical method of keeping tabs on our status.

If we were to have hit a large number or even find 1 case related to the ones found, maybe there would be cause to increase testing.

No country is asking for 100% tested beef, not even Japan if they ever did put it on the table. (no one has ever posted a quote from the Japanese gov't "test and we will accept")

I used to halter break all my bulls, it was a nice feature if they ever had to be roped for treatement or just to pull them from the cows. No one ever requested it it never sold me a bull, I never got paid for it. I no longer halter any of my bulls and guess what...I still sell them. Adding to your costs needlessly is plain stupid.
 
Murgen said:
that's because no one else is willing to do it right now. What happens if it becomes the norm?

What about other testing, for other ailments/deseases, will that be on a customer by customer basis too? Will it be used as a trade barrier?

What will livestock breeders be willing to test for, before they sell to their neighbor, if testing is made public?

Will you pay for foot and mouth testing, for all your bull customers? Low risk of having it, but hey, your customers are asking for it.

It's a steep slope

Murgen, its a good point, however there are many other diseases in the past which have been used as trade barriers (Hoof and mouth, blue tongue just to name a couple). BSE is currently being used a trade barrier. Testing isn't going to change that countries will use diseases as a trade barrier in the future.

As far as BSE testing becoming the norm, I hope it does. BVD testing is becoming more and more prevalent, and I suspect in a few years, if you want to sell breeding stock, you're going to need to have BVD tested animals.

And all the economic arguements that have been used in this thread are also good points. But what happens to our prices when we end up with more than a couple token cases of vCJD? That 20 or 40 bucks an animal is going to look pretty cheap when your 8 weight steers are leaving the yard for $400.

Rod
 
Oldtimer said:
The United States has struggled to restore beef exports to overseas markets, including South Korea and Japan, that totaled $3.8 billion annually before mad cow was first discovered.

$8 to $ 10 billion could have paid for a lot of tests :!:

90 Million animals and a $20 test. We could of tested EVERY DANG bovine in this country 5 TIMES! We, and our customers, would of known exactly what our problem was, it would of been dealt with and behind us. BUT, here we are. :mad:
 
bse-tester said:
As for Jasons comments about urine collection, he has obviously never heard of a Nielson Tube! Also, urine can be taken from the bladder at the time of slaughter and results from the test provided while the meat is hanging in the cooler. It is not rocket science to put together a logistical method for the conducting of tests. It takes less than two minutes in the squeeze to take a sample. Bulls give up their samples following the kill floor.

BSE Tester.......help me connect the dots on all this. In advance, forgive me if this has previously been addressed and I've missed it. Is what you are describing above the $20 test? On the urine test, I'll assume the procedures for sample collection are the same for OTM and UTM finished cattle. Can a urine sample be taken directly off the kill floor without any injections beforehand? If not, why is it necessary to give an injection to a live animal immediately prior to processing?
 
Beefman wrote:

BSE Tester.......help me connect the dots on all this. In advance, forgive me if this has previously been addressed and I've missed it. Is what you are describing above the $20 test? On the urine test, I'll assume the procedures for sample collection are the same for OTM and UTM finished cattle. Can a urine sample be taken directly off the kill floor without any injections beforehand? If not, why is it necessary to give an injection to a live animal immediately prior to processing?

The collection of the sample can be done in a number of ways. The entire exercise it to contain the sample from collection to lab (Chain of custody). I mentioned the Tube method only to point out to Jason that it is easy to collect a sample. The tube is inexpensive and is easily cleaned between samples. Of course, there are those who suggest that cleaning the tube may be a process wherein PrPsc may still be contained within a supposedly cleaned tube, but if the process is adhered to precisely, the tube can be well decontaminated between each animal sample being taken. The cost of the tube is therefore considered to be a 'one-time cost' and the cleaning solutions are such a minor expense that it ireally is insignificant to the cost per test. Another method put forward by some colleagues is to take the urine sample during the slaughter process wherein a typical needle is used to draw say 10 cc's of urine from the bladder. Needles purchased in large bulk quanities are extremely inexpensive - a matter of pennies.

We consider that taking a urine sample by needle along with a slice of the liver and brain is a good way to do it. The urine is processed in the lab whereas the liver and brain section are stored at minus 80 C for a period of approximately 3- 6 months to allow for a reasonable period of time for the meat product to pass through the human food chain. We do appreciate that some products may be stored in the consumer's freezer for periods longer than that, but we have to reach a reasonable time limit for sample storage and 3 - 6 months seems to work well. The reason for storing such samples is to provide for an original sample from the traceable animal in the event that something is found in the urine sample or in the event of questions being raised as to the safety of the meat product. We can provide a hard trail right back to the precise animal that the meat came from and still have original tissue from that animal with which confirmatory tests may be done. At the end of the day, having an animal tested and declared BSE free for a sum of only $20.00 or perhaps less, is a small price to pay to have consumer confidence in your product.
 
bse-tester said:
Beefman wrote:

BSE Tester.......help me connect the dots on all this. In advance, forgive me if this has previously been addressed and I've missed it. Is what you are describing above the $20 test? On the urine test, I'll assume the procedures for sample collection are the same for OTM and UTM finished cattle. Can a urine sample be taken directly off the kill floor without any injections beforehand? If not, why is it necessary to give an injection to a live animal immediately prior to processing?

The collection of the sample can be done in a number of ways. The entire exercise it to contain the sample from collection to lab (Chain of custody). I mentioned the Tube method only to point out to Jason that it is easy to collect a sample. The tube is inexpensive and is easily cleaned between samples. Of course, there are those who suggest that cleaning the tube may be a process wherein PrPsc may still be contained within a supposedly cleaned tube, but if the process is adhered to precisely, the tube can be well decontaminated between each animal sample being taken. The cost of the tube is therefore considered to be a 'one-time cost' and the cleaning solutions are such a minor expense that it ireally is insignificant to the cost per test. Another method put forward by some colleagues is to take the urine sample during the slaughter process wherein a typical needle is used to draw say 10 cc's of urine from the bladder. Needles purchased in large bulk quanities are extremely inexpensive - a matter of pennies.

We consider that taking a urine sample by needle along with a slice of the liver and brain is a good way to do it. The urine is processed in the lab whereas the liver and brain section are stored at minus 80 C for a period of approximately 3- 6 months to allow for a reasonable period of time for the meat product to pass through the human food chain. We do appreciate that some products may be stored in the consumer's freezer for periods longer than that, but we have to reach a reasonable time limit for sample storage and 3 - 6 months seems to work well. The reason for storing such samples is to provide for an original sample from the traceable animal in the event that something is found in the urine sample or in the event of questions being raised as to the safety of the meat product. We can provide a hard trail right back to the precise animal that the meat came from and still have original tissue from that animal with which confirmatory tests may be done. At the end of the day, having an animal tested and declared BSE free for a sum of only $20.00 or perhaps less, is a small price to pay to have consumer confidence in your product.


Tell me how the TUBE can be easily cleaned when Surgical instruments have supposedly passed on CJD after being in a autoclave?
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
bse-tester said:
Beefman wrote:

BSE Tester.......help me connect the dots on all this. In advance, forgive me if this has previously been addressed and I've missed it. Is what you are describing above the $20 test? On the urine test, I'll assume the procedures for sample collection are the same for OTM and UTM finished cattle. Can a urine sample be taken directly off the kill floor without any injections beforehand? If not, why is it necessary to give an injection to a live animal immediately prior to processing?

The collection of the sample can be done in a number of ways. The entire exercise it to contain the sample from collection to lab (Chain of custody). I mentioned the Tube method only to point out to Jason that it is easy to collect a sample. The tube is inexpensive and is easily cleaned between samples. Of course, there are those who suggest that cleaning the tube may be a process wherein PrPsc may still be contained within a supposedly cleaned tube, but if the process is adhered to precisely, the tube can be well decontaminated between each animal sample being taken. The cost of the tube is therefore considered to be a 'one-time cost' and the cleaning solutions are such a minor expense that it ireally is insignificant to the cost per test. Another method put forward by some colleagues is to take the urine sample during the slaughter process wherein a typical needle is used to draw say 10 cc's of urine from the bladder. Needles purchased in large bulk quanities are extremely inexpensive - a matter of pennies.

We consider that taking a urine sample by needle along with a slice of the liver and brain is a good way to do it. The urine is processed in the lab whereas the liver and brain section are stored at minus 80 C for a period of approximately 3- 6 months to allow for a reasonable period of time for the meat product to pass through the human food chain. We do appreciate that some products may be stored in the consumer's freezer for periods longer than that, but we have to reach a reasonable time limit for sample storage and 3 - 6 months seems to work well. The reason for storing such samples is to provide for an original sample from the traceable animal in the event that something is found in the urine sample or in the event of questions being raised as to the safety of the meat product. We can provide a hard trail right back to the precise animal that the meat came from and still have original tissue from that animal with which confirmatory tests may be done. At the end of the day, having an animal tested and declared BSE free for a sum of only $20.00 or perhaps less, is a small price to pay to have consumer confidence in your product.


Tell me how the TUBE can be easily cleaned when Surgical instruments have supposedly passed on CJD after being in a autoclave?

bse-tester wrote(in another thread)-
Also Mike, it is important that the lab be tightly contained and have all the necessary cautions in place such as positive and negative air, level 3 grades in place and so on. PrPsc is scary enough but to have it in an uncontrolled or loosely guarded environment is way too scary. Ron.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I'd be willing to bet that "bse-tester" hides his own Easter eggs.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
bse-tester said:
Beefman wrote:

BSE Tester.......help me connect the dots on all this. In advance, forgive me if this has previously been addressed and I've missed it. Is what you are describing above the $20 test? On the urine test, I'll assume the procedures for sample collection are the same for OTM and UTM finished cattle. Can a urine sample be taken directly off the kill floor without any injections beforehand? If not, why is it necessary to give an injection to a live animal immediately prior to processing?

The collection of the sample can be done in a number of ways. The entire exercise it to contain the sample from collection to lab (Chain of custody). I mentioned the Tube method only to point out to Jason that it is easy to collect a sample. The tube is inexpensive and is easily cleaned between samples. Of course, there are those who suggest that cleaning the tube may be a process wherein PrPsc may still be contained within a supposedly cleaned tube, but if the process is adhered to precisely, the tube can be well decontaminated between each animal sample being taken. The cost of the tube is therefore considered to be a 'one-time cost' and the cleaning solutions are such a minor expense that it ireally is insignificant to the cost per test. Another method put forward by some colleagues is to take the urine sample during the slaughter process wherein a typical needle is used to draw say 10 cc's of urine from the bladder. Needles purchased in large bulk quanities are extremely inexpensive - a matter of pennies.

We consider that taking a urine sample by needle along with a slice of the liver and brain is a good way to do it. The urine is processed in the lab whereas the liver and brain section are stored at minus 80 C for a period of approximately 3- 6 months to allow for a reasonable period of time for the meat product to pass through the human food chain. We do appreciate that some products may be stored in the consumer's freezer for periods longer than that, but we have to reach a reasonable time limit for sample storage and 3 - 6 months seems to work well. The reason for storing such samples is to provide for an original sample from the traceable animal in the event that something is found in the urine sample or in the event of questions being raised as to the safety of the meat product. We can provide a hard trail right back to the precise animal that the meat came from and still have original tissue from that animal with which confirmatory tests may be done. At the end of the day, having an animal tested and declared BSE free for a sum of only $20.00 or perhaps less, is a small price to pay to have consumer confidence in your product.


Tell me how the TUBE can be easily cleaned when Surgical instruments have supposedly passed on CJD after being in a autoclave?

Inactivation of Prions by Acidic Sodium Dodecyl Sulfate
David Peretz ,1,2,{dagger},{ddagger} Surachai Supattapone,1,2,{dagger},§ Kurt Giles,1,2,{dagger} Julie Vergara,1 Yevgeniy Freyman,1 Pierre Lessard,1 Jiri G. Safar,1,2 David V. Glidden,3 Charles McCulloch,3 Hoang-Oanh B. Nguyen,1 Michael Scott,1,2,|| Stephen J. DeArmond,1,4 and Stanley B. Prusiner1,2,5*

Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases,1 Departments of Neurology,2 Epidemiology and Biostatistics,3 Pathology,4 Biochemistry and Biophysics, University of California San Francisco, San Francisco, California 941435

Received 14 March 2005/ Accepted 16 September 2005

Prompted by the discovery that prions become protease-sensitive after exposure to branched polyamine dendrimers in acetic acid (AcOH) (S. Supattapone, H. Wille, L. Uyechi, J. Safar, P. Tremblay, F. C. Szoka, F. E. Cohen, S. B. Prusiner, and M. R. Scott, J. Virol. 75:3453-3461, 2001), we investigated the inactivation of prions by sodium dodecyl sulfate (SDS) in weak acid. As judged by sensitivity to proteolytic digestion, the disease-causing prion protein (PrPSc) was denatured at room temperature by SDS at pH values of ≤4.5 or ≥10. Exposure of Sc237 prions in Syrian hamster brain homogenates to 1% SDS and 0.5% AcOH at room temperature resulted in a reduction of prion titer by a factor of ca. 107; however, all of the bioassay hamsters eventually developed prion disease. When various concentrations of SDS and AcOH were tested, the duration and temperature of exposure acted synergistically to inactivate both hamster Sc237 prions and human sporadic Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (sCJD) prions. The inactivation of prions in brain homogenates and those bound to stainless steel wires was evaluated by using bioassays in transgenic mice. sCJD prions were more than 100,000 times more resistant to inactivation than Sc237 prions, demonstrating that inactivation procedures validated on rodent prions cannot be extrapolated to inactivation of human prions. Some procedures that significantly reduced prion titers in brain homogenates had a limited effect on prions bound to the surface of stainless steel wires. Using acidic SDS combined with autoclaving for 15 min, human sCJD prions bound to stainless steel wires were eliminated. Our findings form the basis for a noncorrosive system that is suitable for inactivating prions on surgical instruments, as well as on other medical and dental equipment.
 
It slices it dices, hurry and order now and we'll include your own home test for rabies, bluetongue, anaplasmosis, BVD, CJD, STD, CPP, ESP, the list is endless.......
 
Mike said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
bse-tester said:
Beefman wrote:



The collection of the sample can be done in a number of ways. The entire exercise it to contain the sample from collection to lab (Chain of custody). I mentioned the Tube method only to point out to Jason that it is easy to collect a sample. The tube is inexpensive and is easily cleaned between samples. Of course, there are those who suggest that cleaning the tube may be a process wherein PrPsc may still be contained within a supposedly cleaned tube, but if the process is adhered to precisely, the tube can be well decontaminated between each animal sample being taken. The cost of the tube is therefore considered to be a 'one-time cost' and the cleaning solutions are such a minor expense that it ireally is insignificant to the cost per test. Another method put forward by some colleagues is to take the urine sample during the slaughter process wherein a typical needle is used to draw say 10 cc's of urine from the bladder. Needles purchased in large bulk quanities are extremely inexpensive - a matter of pennies.

We consider that taking a urine sample by needle along with a slice of the liver and brain is a good way to do it. The urine is processed in the lab whereas the liver and brain section are stored at minus 80 C for a period of approximately 3- 6 months to allow for a reasonable period of time for the meat product to pass through the human food chain. We do appreciate that some products may be stored in the consumer's freezer for periods longer than that, but we have to reach a reasonable time limit for sample storage and 3 - 6 months seems to work well. The reason for storing such samples is to provide for an original sample from the traceable animal in the event that something is found in the urine sample or in the event of questions being raised as to the safety of the meat product. We can provide a hard trail right back to the precise animal that the meat came from and still have original tissue from that animal with which confirmatory tests may be done. At the end of the day, having an animal tested and declared BSE free for a sum of only $20.00 or perhaps less, is a small price to pay to have consumer confidence in your product.


Tell me how the TUBE can be easily cleaned when Surgical instruments have supposedly passed on CJD after being in a autoclave?

Inactivation of Prions by Acidic Sodium Dodecyl Sulfate
David Peretz ,1,2,{dagger},{ddagger} Surachai Supattapone,1,2,{dagger},§ Kurt Giles,1,2,{dagger} Julie Vergara,1 Yevgeniy Freyman,1 Pierre Lessard,1 Jiri G. Safar,1,2 David V. Glidden,3 Charles McCulloch,3 Hoang-Oanh B. Nguyen,1 Michael Scott,1,2,|| Stephen J. DeArmond,1,4 and Stanley B. Prusiner1,2,5*

Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases,1 Departments of Neurology,2 Epidemiology and Biostatistics,3 Pathology,4 Biochemistry and Biophysics, University of California San Francisco, San Francisco, California 941435

Received 14 March 2005/ Accepted 16 September 2005

Prompted by the discovery that prions become protease-sensitive after exposure to branched polyamine dendrimers in acetic acid (AcOH) (S. Supattapone, H. Wille, L. Uyechi, J. Safar, P. Tremblay, F. C. Szoka, F. E. Cohen, S. B. Prusiner, and M. R. Scott, J. Virol. 75:3453-3461, 2001), we investigated the inactivation of prions by sodium dodecyl sulfate (SDS) in weak acid. As judged by sensitivity to proteolytic digestion, the disease-causing prion protein (PrPSc) was denatured at room temperature by SDS at pH values of ≤4.5 or ≥10. Exposure of Sc237 prions in Syrian hamster brain homogenates to 1% SDS and 0.5% AcOH at room temperature resulted in a reduction of prion titer by a factor of ca. 107; however, all of the bioassay hamsters eventually developed prion disease. When various concentrations of SDS and AcOH were tested, the duration and temperature of exposure acted synergistically to inactivate both hamster Sc237 prions and human sporadic Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (sCJD) prions. The inactivation of prions in brain homogenates and those bound to stainless steel wires was evaluated by using bioassays in transgenic mice. sCJD prions were more than 100,000 times more resistant to inactivation than Sc237 prions, demonstrating that inactivation procedures validated on rodent prions cannot be extrapolated to inactivation of human prions. Some procedures that significantly reduced prion titers in brain homogenates had a limited effect on prions bound to the surface of stainless steel wires. Using acidic SDS combined with autoclaving for 15 min, human sCJD prions bound to stainless steel wires were eliminated. Our findings form the basis for a noncorrosive system that is suitable for inactivating prions on surgical instruments, as well as on other medical and dental equipment.[/quote


So your trying to tell me that a plastic or rubber tube can be cleaned chute side and not cross contaminate. How does that work for the chain of custody you talk about?]
 
Jason said:
It slices it dices, hurry and order now and we'll include your own home test for rabies, bluetongue, anaplasmosis, BVD, CJD, STD, CPP, ESP, the list is endless.......

If the customer backs their request with a check for your troubles, what's the problem?
 
Sandhusker said:
Jason said:
It slices it dices, hurry and order now and we'll include your own home test for rabies, bluetongue, anaplasmosis, BVD, CJD, STD, CPP, ESP, the list is endless.......

If the customer backs their request with a check for your troubles, what's the problem?

The problem is that the packers would lose control of it as an excuse to make bad policy that benefits them only.

Such a sorry set of politicians we have now I have not seen.
 

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