Voluntary BSE testing for animals over 20 months

[Beefman]

Beefman wrote:

Tell me how the TUBE can be easily cleaned when Surgical instruments have supposedly passed on CJD after being in a autoclave?

They do not use a medium strength acid wash followed by a 100% bleach rinse which is in turn followed by a water rinse. Look, cross-contamination is right in the forefront of our concerns. The chain of custody is paramount. Sterilizing the tube is something that has been booted around for a long time in order to find a way in which to do it and be sure it is done completely. A mild acid, strong enough to disolve the outer skin of an orange will certainly destroy anything that even remotely resembles a protein, even prion protein. This is then followed by a dip into a 100% bleach solution and then rinsed with cold clean water. We tested, a number of times, the tube after running urine through it and found we had to tweak the acid solution until nothing was found in subsequent testing. We then decided that it made sense to follow up with a cleansing rinse in bleach and then a rinse in water to clean away all traces of the previous solutions. It worked. So I hope that answers the "Mr. Clean" comment??


It is also important to note hat we prefer to take samples with a syringe. At least that way we elliminate the cleaning of the tube and can then dispose of the needles after each sample is taken directly from the bladder. Besides, after prolonged exposure to acids, the tube has a significantly reduced life!!!

To clarifly, none of these quotes here are mine

 

[bse-tester]

Consider the fact that stomach acid is constantly being diluted by an influx of water and food. In humans, we subject our acid base to a variety of dilutants such as Pop, water, snacks thorughout the day and water by the gallon (for those of us who are healthier) and this dilutes the affect of the acid in our stomachs. That is why we see the corn passed along with the occasional peanut!!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that maybe, just maybe, cows will pass undigested foods also due to their drinking water at various times of the day and that prions can indeed pass through the stomach without being degraded by stomach acids. My Father-in-law's herd would drink constantly and then their ability to pass waste product was astounding - it was more like a slurry mixed with chunks. Sorry, no other way to describe it. Those chunks were, in fact, undigested food matter or partially digested matter. Nontheless, prions coiuld easily hitch a ride through the sytem and into the intestinal tract where they could find a way into the rest of the animal.

 

[TimH]

You guys all missed Tim's point?

Bovines have acid in their stomachs.

BSE tester said acid disolves prion protiens.

If that were true feed transmission and amplification of BSE would be impossible.

I didn't miss Tim's point, but I didn't make mine clear enough. My point is that Tim isn't a chemist, so he couldn't possibly make any conclusions as to the validity of BSE Tester's claims. Perhaps maybe its the type of acid being used? Some chemicals can be used to break down some substances, but have no effect on others. You'll notice that the hydrocloric acid in the stomach doesn't eat out the stomach itself?

Rod

That's your point Rod??? Judging by this(your previous post) "Have they got some bleach in there too, since BSE tester was talking about needing both?

Rod", your "point" seemed to be that there was no bleach in bovine stomachs. :roll: :roll:
Stomach acid doesn't eat out your stomach because the stomach is lined with mucous membranes,among other reasons. Maybe you and Oldtimer should visit a "2 holer" together and read a few books.
Are you sure I'm not a chemist Rod??? :lol:

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

Tim,

I think Rod and Oldtimer are fuller than the the holes below the seats in the outhouse...... :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TimH]

Consider the fact that stomach acid is constantly being diluted by an influx of water and food. In humans, we subject our acid base to a variety of dilutants such as Pop, water, snacks thorughout the day and water by the gallon (for those of us who are healthier) and this dilutes the affect of the acid in our stomachs. That is why we see the corn passed along with the occasional peanut!!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that maybe, just maybe, cows will pass undigested foods also due to their drinking water at various times of the day and that prions can indeed pass through the stomach without being degraded by stomach acids. My Father-in-law's herd would drink constantly and then their ability to pass waste product was astounding - it was more like a slurry mixed with chunks. Sorry, no other way to describe it. Those chunks were, in fact, undigested food matter or partially digested matter. Nontheless, prions coiuld easily hitch a ride through the sytem and into the intestinal tract where they could find a way into the rest of the animal.

bse-tester, Prusiner and his team had at least limited success in destroying some prions using a 0.5% solution of acetic acid(pretty much vinegar) at a ph of something less than 4.5.
Could you tell us the ph of the acid solution you use?? Is it an "industrial acid" as Oldtimer put it???? BillonS of times stronger than stomach acid??? Does it have a ph of less than 2??
I'm pretty sure that the strongest acid known, is hydrofluoric acid maybe with an antimony compound thrown in for good measure. This is only about 1 billion times stronger than regular stomach acid. Let's find out who is really "ignorant". Me or "deputy dawg" from Butt-Lick, Montana. :roll:
Would hydrochloric acid, at a ph of 1 to 2 be strong enough to deactivate prions??? It would certainly peel the skin off of an orange.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Stomach acid doesn't eat out your stomach because the stomach is lined with mucous membranes,among other reasons. Maybe you and Oldtimer should visit a "2 holer" together and read a few books.
Are you sure I'm not a chemist Rod??? :lol:

Actually Tim, the stomach is protected by the epithelial cells, which produce and secrete a bicarbonate-rich solution that coats the mucosa. Bicarbonate is alkaline, a base, and neutralizes the acid secreted by the parietal cells, producing water in the process. This continuous supply of bicarbonate is the main way that your stomach protects itself from autodigestion (the stomach digesting itself) and the overall acidic environment.

So yeah, Tim, I'm pretty much positive you're not a chemist. Especially since you can't comprehend that some substances will react with another, while a different substance may have no reaction at all. Or that the acid in your stomach breaks down food at a slow pace through a chemical reaction, changing the raw food into a fluid that the body can then use. After the reaction, its not acid anymore.

BSE Tester, I presume the acid you guys use do much the same thing? Break down the proteins through a chemical reaction, then the bleach scrub carries it away?

And M-R, do you ever have anything to add to a debate, or do you simply just sit on the outside and insult people?

Rod

 

[TimH]

Which way is it OT?

Acid disolves prions or not?

You got me...I haven't been doing the research...But a couple of you looked pretty ignorant arguing stomach acids were the same as industrial acids... :roll: I haven't made a habit of following acids but I know new acids are being found regularly- some of which are billions of times stronger than stomach acid....

I was thinking the same thing. Pretty amusing actually to argue that all acids are the same...

Yes that would be pretty amusing R2. Perhaps you could provide the actual quote where anyone was arguing such a thing.
You and Oldtimer being on the same wave-length is also pretty amusing!!! :lol:

 

[TimH]

I was thinking the same thing. Pretty amusing actually to argue that all acids are the same...

Yes that would be pretty amusing R2. Perhaps you could provide the actual quote where anyone was arguing such a thing.
You and Oldtimer being on the same wave-length is also pretty amusing!!! :lol:

Hey, I can't help if if several of us spotted the huge hole in your logic simultaneously.

Since you seem to be unable to provide the quote I asked for, perhaps you could point out the "huge hole" in my logic.

 

[bse-tester]

DiamondSCattleCo Wrote:

BSE Tester, I presume the acid you guys use do much the same thing? Break down the proteins through a chemical reaction, then the bleach scrub carries it away?

Correct. But having said that, it is also important to note that it is so much easier to use a syringe to take a urine sample from the bladder at the time of slaughter and to then dispose of the syringe through a bio-hazard disposal unit where it is incinerated. No matter what you do with a tube, there is always that nagging thought that perhaps, just perhaps, one little pesky prion was missed and there goes the neighborhood!!! But this sure generated some discussion though and that is important. Glad to see folks got interested in it.

One other concern should be raised also and that is how a plant in cleaned. Who is to say that a so called "cleaned" piece of equipment is actually free of contaminants? What chemicals are being used and at what strength? Some plant managers that I have met with tell me candidly that they dilute the cleaner to a point where it will not be so darn hard to wash out. "Nobody wants to taste that stuff in their burgers," I was told. So, how good is the cleaning process??

Mmmmmmmmm, I thought that hamburger tasted weird!!! :???: :shock:

 

[PORKER]

That must be why Jack in the Box burgers Taste like Roman Cleanser.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Correct. But having said that, it is also important to note that it is so much easier to use a syringe to take a urine sample from the bladder at the time of slaughter and to then dispose of the

I wonder if its cheaper in the long run as well? Those little plastic syringes are 50 or 60 cents a piece when bought in lots of 1,000. No added chute time or costs in live animal handling.

Rod

 

[PORKER]

Thats my thinking too Rod,I want the First BSE Free tested herd in the US. Then the cost is a factor.Look at the monoply I would have on SALES.

 

[Anonymous]

Thats my thinking too Rod,I want the First BSE Free tested herd in the US. Then the cost is a factor.Look at the monoply I would have on SALES.

God forbid a producer have a monopoly....USDA will back any multinational corporation rules and laws that allow monopoly's- under the guise of free market trade- but they will fight anything that gives an enterprising cattleman the same.......... :wink: :lol:

This USDA has forgot the principles Ronald Reagan proclaimed in my below statement:

GW, Johanns, and the corporate boys probably have Ronny & Teddy spinning in their graves