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Was only a matter of time

When youlive in close quarters with large predators of course there is a chance of an encounter not going well. we hunt them all up here but respect that they have a place in the wild too. you have a much larger chance of getting mauled by a pitbull than you have of getting attacked by a wolf, bear or mountain lion. The ones that start hanging too close have to be dealt with but to total;ly eradicate a species is just plain wrong. There's far more two legged predators out there that worry me about my kids.
 
but to total;ly eradicate a species is just plain wrong. There's far more two legged predators out there that worry me about my kids.

:agree: :clap: :clap:
 
Northern Rancher said:
When youlive in close quarters with large predators of course there is a chance of an encounter not going well. we hunt them all up here but respect that they have a place in the wild too. you have a much larger chance of getting mauled by a pitbull than you have of getting attacked by a wolf, bear or mountain lion. The ones that start hanging too close have to be dealt with but to total;ly eradicate a species is just plain wrong. There's far more two legged predators out there that worry me about my kids.
Who the heck is talking about eradicating any species? We're merely trying to get government permission to protect ourselves, our families and our livestock from a very large, dangerous and stealthy predator whose population has ballooned across this region.

Since no one around here owns a pit bull and law enforcement is doing a good job protecting us from two-legged predators, the only threat to us that we can't legally do anything about is mountain lions.

Question for you NR, up there in Canada are you allowed to shoot an animal that is a threat to you or your livestock or do you have to call game and fish to deal with your problem?
 
I dont think there is ever or has ever been a question about shooting an animal that is threatening you or your livestock.

The little old lady in the hills did, and so did a farmer near Howard. No one has gotten into trouble over that.
 
LB I think if they had a wolf/lion specific atomic bomb you'd drop it. It gets a little old seeing every wild animal encounter north american wide reposted and bemoaned. I don't think the South Dakota fish and wildlife dept. is promoting South Dakota kids as an alternative feed source for large predators.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
I dont think there is ever or has ever been a question about shooting an animal that is threatening you or your livestock.

The little old lady in the hills did, and so did a farmer near Howard. No one has gotten into trouble over that.
That's where you're wrong. GF&P Tony Lief testified that if you see a mountain lion on your feed ground walking among your livestock, you have to drive back to the house, call GF&P and get their permission before you are allowed to shoot it. There was no question that you are breaking the law if you shoot it before calling them unless it is physically attacking you or your livestock.

If you do shoot a mountain lion that is threatening you or your livestock, they might not arrest you - although they have the power to do so - but they will confiscate the dead mountain lion like they did from Martha Smith at Fairburn and from the farmer at Howard and stash it away in their deep freezes with the dozens of others they have.

When our music teacher ran over the 150# full-grown female ten miles south of our ranch they conficasted the dead lion and left her with the bill to fix her own vehicle. If she could have sold the pelt, it still wouldn't have covered the damage, but it would have helped.
 
Northern Rancher said:
LB I think if they had a wolf/lion specific atomic bomb you'd drop it. It gets a little old seeing every wild animal encounter north american wide reposted and bemoaned. I don't think the South Dakota fish and wildlife dept. is promoting South Dakota kids as an alternative feed source for large predators.
You just conjure up in your mind whatever theory about me makes you happy. I happen to think we should have the right to shoot a predator that is a danger to my family and my livestock. Does that seem like a wacko idea to you?

Why don't you answer my question?
Question for you NR, up there in Canada are you allowed to shoot an animal that is a threat to you or your livestock or do you have to call game and fish to deal with your problem?
 
In Alberta i believe we are to call fish and game first.And i still dont think we are suposed to shoot it.But i had a game warden tell me once if you see a lion shoot it and never tell anyone.
 
So how come the little old lady didnt get a ticket? How come the howard family didnt get a ticket?

Basicly, what you were asking to do was to shoot every animal on site, no matter what. THats what the gfp doesnt want you doing, and im guessing the majority of your legislative buddys agree with the gfp, or it would have passed.

Dont get me wrong. If there was a lion in my back yard and if i felt or felt my animals threatend, the animal would be dead.

Im sure there will be animals killed that no one will ever know about.......using the shoot, shovel and shut up theory.
 
I'm pretty sure you can up here-but having actually seen a live wolf in my pasture-just because you have predators there doesn't mean they're going to be killing stock. it's probably best to have a dialogue with your game wardens about the actions you take even if they are justified.As for no two legged threats in South Dakota I've seen a few wildies in my travels wrried me more than any lion or wolf.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
So how come the little old lady didnt get a ticket? How come the howard family didnt get a ticket?
Read my post over again carefully. I already answered your question – they could have been arrested but after the media coverage both got, GF&P was not going to make the mistake of locking either one up, although they have the authority to do so.

Southdakotahunter said:
Basicly, what you were asking to do was to shoot every animal on site, no matter what. THats what the gfp doesnt want you doing, and im guessing the majority of your legislative buddys agree with the gfp, or it would have passed.
We are allowed to shoot every coyote or fox we see, no matter what, because they are predators and killing things is what they do. All we want is for the mountain lion to be added to the predator list so they can be treated as what they are - the largest, most dangerous predator in South Dakota.


Southdakotahunter said:
Dont get me wrong. If there was a lion in my back yard and if i felt or felt my animals threatend, the animal would be dead.

Im sure there will be animals killed that no one will ever know about.......using the shoot, shovel and shut up theory.
If mountain lions were listed as the predators they are, folks like you wouldn't have to worry about breaking the law when you shoot a mountain lion that is threatening you or your livestock.

There would also be no need for your three S solution and you wouldn't become a criminal just for protecting your property.
 
Northern Rancher said:
I'm pretty sure you can up here-but having actually seen a live wolf in my pasture-just because you have predators there doesn't mean they're going to be killing stock. it's probably best to have a dialogue with your game wardens about the actions you take even if they are justified.As for no two legged threats in South Dakota I've seen a few wildies in my travels wrried me more than any lion or wolf.
If that wolf is killing your stock, would you shoot it or just figure it has as much right to eat your beef as you do?

We have had those dialogues with GF&P and will continue to do so until we have the legal right to protect ourselves.

You saw folks in South Dakota that scared you? What kinda sissy are you anyway?

That was probably just me and SJ and we're fairly harmless unless attacked.
:twisted: :cowboy:
 
In BC we are able to protect ourselves and our livestock from any predator, be it wolf, cougar, black bear, grizzly, coyote or any other pain in the backside nature delivers. We have an open season on wolves, anyone can shoot 3 per year, coyotes, no bag limit, cougar, 2, black bear, 2, and grizzly, 1, limited entry only. Previous to 2003, our major cattle losses to wildlife were to wolves, in 1999 a neighbor of mine lost 38 calves to wolves alone. Starting in 2003, the grizzly population has exploded in most areas of rural BC, mainly due to easy winters and under hunting. Since May 2003 we have lost 92 cattle on range, nearly ALL to grizzly bears. There is a predator compensation/mitigation program available here, funded by govt. and administered by our provicial cattle assn. The catch 22 is they only pay 75% of 75% of the estimated value of the animal. IF you can find it in time to verify that it was actually killed by a predator. We have been paid for 7 animals, whoopee :x . If I ever figure out how, I will post some pics of some cattle that survived attacks and some that didn't. The mitigation boys do an excellent job if you happen to find a fresh kill, but we don't have a lot of time to look when we are haying and this country doesn't lend itself to see all your cattle every day. Total losses for this area in 2007 was somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 cattle, this is from a mother cow herd of about 3500 cows from 11 ranches. Do the math and I think you will decipher my feelings on the live with nature philosophy.
 
Now now LB don't be calling people a sissy-for god's sake woman your the one who hasn't figured out little red riding hood is a fairy tail lol. It just strikes me as funny the wailing and moaning from people who in all likliehood willnever see a wolf track in their life. of course every loss on pasture is due to predation-not likely-are most losses fed on by predators for sure. I don't love them but I don't hate them either.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Now now LB don't be calling people a sissy-for god's sake woman your the one who hasn't figured out little red riding hood is a fairy tail lol. It just strikes me as funny the wailing and moaning from people who in all likliehood willnever see a wolf track in their life. of course every loss on pasture is due to predation-not likely-are most losses fed on by predators for sure. I don't love them but I don't hate them either.
I don't take time to reflect on how I feel about em'. I just deal with the problem when it arises. If you don't have a problem with the predators you have now, for God's sake don't kill the one's you have. The new tenants may have different tastes. And..... I DO know the difference of the way my cows act when they are being harassed and when they aren't. I've been in the bush for 30 years now, my wife has lived on this ranch her whole life, predators cycle just like your grasshoppers and gophers do. When there are too many for available food supply they would naturally eat they turn to beef and lamb. Even at low tide there are some that are outlaws. If they leave us alone,we do the same for them. And.... there isn't any BS about the numbers I posted.
 
They tend to do more damage in late summer when they're training pups to hunt-they seem to like running weight off the yearlings at times. Coyotes are a bigger problem at times then timber wolves are-bears usually leave things pretty much be in our neck of the woods.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Now now LB don't be calling people a sissy-for god's sake woman your the one who hasn't figured out little red riding hood is a fairy tail lol. It just strikes me as funny the wailing and moaning from people who in all likliehood willnever see a wolf track in their life. of course every loss on pasture is due to predation-not likely-are most losses fed on by predators for sure. I don't love them but I don't hate them either.
NH, you need to get out of the bar when you come to Dakota and talk to some of the folks living outside of town. :cowboy:

It sounds like we've got more wolves here than you do up there in Saskatchewan. The situation gcreekrch has around his ranch seems to more closely resemble what we have here.

USFW and GF&P used to try to tell us that we were seeing things until one of their trappers accidentally killed a big wolf with an M-44 that he had set to get what he thought were coyotes killing our neighbor's calves. This wasn't one of those expense imports from Canada either – the DNA tests game and fish had done confirmed it was a home-grown Minnesota wolf.

Before that accidental death, another neighbor shot one on purpose that was tearing up his sheep and another couple neighbors have practiced the 3-S method of dealing with them when they caught them killing livestock.

A couple years ago on my way to a relative's funeral, a big black wolf ran across the road in front of me chasing a deer. Just a few months ago another one was run over by a car on Interstate 90 just east of Sturgis, which is south of here.

Up until just a few years ago game and fish was telling us that we didn't have mountain lions here either. Since then two of them have also been run over in Sturgis, one by a motorcyclist and one by the fire chief on his way to a fire. The Black Hills are saturated with them and they are everywhere out here on the prairie.

When this guy was attacked, it came as no surprise to us - it just surprises us that it took this long before we had an attack. We're doggone glad this guy survived, but it's only a matter of time until someone gets killed.
 
I know with the mountain lion spotted here there was no talk of one and one had not been seen here before then suddenly one day one wanders in front of a car. The next day it wandrers in front of a car miles down the road.

There is talk that a pair of wolves were spotted up on my famous neighbors not that he brought them in evidentally the ranch hand that had been there for years and years had seen them before. :shock:

A few weeks ago several of us were going to town together and saw a HUGE coyote or what we thought to be one. All of us commented we had never seen a coyote that big plus it was darker in color then normal. Then I wondered do species such as wolves and coyotes cross bred species? :???:
 
in 1999 a neighbor of mine lost 38 calves to wolves alone. Starting in 2003, the grizzly population has exploded in most areas of rural BC, mainly due to easy winters and under hunting. Since May 2003 we have lost 92 cattle on range

There would be no Thorson Ranch if I lost 1/4 of those numbers.
 

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