West River Lockout landowners are bad folks...

[rancher]

Hmmm, this sounds like a report a 2nd grader would write living in New York City.

you took the words out of my mouth....the critters were here long before you ever bought or settled the land. You knew the animals were there and if you now feel it is necessary to be compensated for them surviving, your HI.......I am not looking for something for nothing. Im not looking even for something. I have asked to hunt before and have been told yes, and have been told no. you never know until you ask and if they say no thats cool. no prob. I do know there are some who also want something for nothin....and that goes to the rancher also. I know for a fact some ranchers wont let hunting but then complain to the gfp during a bad winter the deer are eating their haystacks and want the gfp to come out and feed the deer even tho the landowner had a chance to at least help to thin the herd some by letting people hunt. Again, i am not looking for a free hand out. everyone needs to make a buck. I got bills to pay also and i may even ask for some $ if i was in their position. But to try to say the farmer needs to be compensated because the wildlife is eating their grass and they are not letting people hunt, unless its for $500 or more is crazy. THis will settle your problems.....6ft chain link fence. Keep the gfp out, keep all the game in. Might want to kill the critters first tho because they might eat some grass or poop on your ground and we sure cant have that, because some want something for nothing.

 

[Southdakotahunter]

Wow.......Im surprised you could even read it without pictures.

 

[kolanuraven]

My 2cents worth.......My land is MY land.....you want land to hike over, hunt on or just sit and admire....go buy some for yourself.

I had to buy mine.....I have to pay the taxes on it....I have to fix the fences/gates. etc when someone who IS NOT supposed to have been there has torn them down, or shot the locks open.

You want those pleasures of the land....you should have to take the lumps also ( taxes, cost of upkeep etc).

 

[WB]

Well said Tumbleweed. I hate to discourage any deer hunters here because we have an overabundance. But I hate putting up with all the slobs that dirve around shooting deer and leaving them to rot. I have seen it too many times to be believed. We never had these high deer populations until we had CRP. In fact 25 years ago we hardly had any deer to speak of and if you hit one when you were haying you felt badly about it. Its not that way now.

The fact is the GF+P wants a high deer population so they can sell more licenses and have more revenue. Here in South Dakota the GF+P is pretty much a dictatorship and doesn't have to ask for appropriations from the state. I don't think very many in the state even know this.


Another issue of contention for me is the state claims property rites on all slough and lakes up to the high water mark even though the private property owner still pays the taxes.

So some might call me an extremist but I can see where Liberty Belle is coming from even though I am from East river S.D.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I have no issue if a land owner doesn't allow hunting at all or if they want to charge for hunting.

That's not the issue. The Lock out was to not let hunters in so Game and Fish would have no reason to access the land. RIGHT

So now some are using the LOCK OUT to as a excuse to Keep out Non paying hunters and Game and Fish but are letting in For Pay hunters.

I thught the whole idea of the Lock Out was if their was NO HUNTERS their would be NO Game and Fish.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Big Muddy I think Liberty Belle said she doesn't alow big game huntin because she doesn't want the game and fish coming on her land. So there is no reason for a game warden to come around.

There's nothin illegal about inviting hunters to shoot predators on privately owned land. I don't think the game and fish have any reason to show up for that either. I think Liberty Belle said once if one did show up she would have the sherriff arest him for trespassing.

So it seems to me it would probably be best if the sherriff and game warden just stayed in their offices, kept a fire goin in their potbelly stoves, leaned back in their chairs, propped their feet up on the desk and waited for the phone to ring. If someone needs some help they can give them a call.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I understand you Tumble weed and Liberty Belle as well.
That is what the Lockout was started for and it seems to be working for them.

What I take exception to is landowners under the guise of the LOCK OUT keeping out Game and Fish while taking in For Pay Hunters.

I have no problem if land owners don't want non paying hunters but take for pay hunters. But don't hide behind the Lock Out trying to keep Game and Fish out.

 

[Tumbleweed]

It doesn't look to me like landowners are hiding at all. They are asserting their right to say who comes and goes on their land when there is nothing illegal going on. I see the point you're making though but it just doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

There was something similar I noticed when I was driving truck. The HP would pull us over on the highway or at scales for inspections but I never did see one at a warehouse or truckstop. Talked to a truckstop owner one time in northern california who said a couple of them came in to his parking lot one time and started doing an inspection on some of his customers there. The truck stop owner went out and told them to get the hell out of his parking lot because it was private property and they had no business there. If they wanted to do inspections they could find someplace out on the highway to do them. He said they were hassleing his customers and driving them away. They left but were pretty unhappy about it.

 

[Southdakotahunter]

The landowner can do whatever he or she wants. Muddy is trying to tell everyone that. What he is trying to say and for some reason no one is understanding is this

Hunting lockout means hunting lockout. If you are trying to get your point across by having a lockout....lockout everyone.

The gfp have the right to come on any property they see hunting occuring even if they dont see a crime being commited. They have an obligation to the citizens of this state and country to make sure the birds and animals that everyone owns are being respected the way they should be. some feel thats wrong but im sorry thats the law. Change the law if you can and i think the legislature spoke loudly last year about it and i dont even see the reps of the areas involved bringing it up again it failed so miserabley last year. There was even a questionair sent out to the reps about their possible support of such a bill again and the questionair came back that it would fail.

Muddy is saying they need to stick to their guns and lockout all if they are going to lockout. The landowner is trying to lockout so the gfp wont come on without permission. Do you honestly think that will work just because the customer is paying? Do you honestly think that will work just because they are shooting varmits? You have to buy a license in this state if you are shooting prairie dogs or you are shooting elk. It dont matter and the wardent COULD check them at any time. The warden cant read minds and know if they are hunting coyote or they are poaching deer and that is what a warden is supposed to do. The warden cant sit at the desk with the feet up waiting for a call. That would be like a cop not being able to patrol the streets. THem just being out there is a deterant.

There are a FEW bad game wardens who are on their high horse and think their poop dont stink and can do whatever they feel and thats wrong. Heck, i have run into bad ones that treated me like crap and i didnt like it at all. I was mad as heck about it. Did i quit going hunting in that area? no. I probably should have made a call to the gfp and complained but i didnt and i probably screwed up there. I have also run into the nicest ones who have been helpfull as heck and i should have called the gfp and told about them but i didnt. The bad ones are the ones you remember more.

I have used the walmart anology before and i will again. If i am going to boycott walmart, i boycott walmart period. You dont pick and choose the items at walmart you want to boycott. Just because milk is on sale at walmart dont let me "cherry pick" the boycott and muddy understands what i am saying also.

The landowner has the right to do what they want when they want to their land. Its their land. If your going to lockout, then lockout! $$$ shouldnt be a factor. It has been said by some that MOST of the land was never available to the average joe anyway and that is why their 4 million acres of lockout land is BS. The guy in the story will tell you that. Show us how much is really lockout out? That is why the lockout has failed. It has no balls! Stick to your guns and lockout if you want, its your land, but everyone sees through the smoke screen. $ talks and BS is locked out.

 

[Steve]

They (highway patrol) left but were pretty unhappy about it.

Just try and kick a game warden out....

I think the problem with Game wardens is the "warrantless search" with no indication of a crime commited..

if you are engaged in a legal activity and on private land, how can law enforcement "search" with out a warrant?


Private property owners should be allowed to "regulate" thier own land.

if the game warden sees illegal activity, or believes there is illegal activity, let then get a warrant like any other law enforcement officer would be required by law to get,.....otherwise it is an illegal search.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

SD Hunter you said it well.
I would bet if ALL of these For PAY hunters were locked out that these land owners would get more support for Game law changes. As it is with just the Non paying hunter locked out the For Pay HUnters have never had it better.

 

[Northern Rancher]

As a hunter,rancher and LANDOWNER I have no problem at all being checked out by a game warden-if I'm not doing anything wrong it is about a 5 minute conversation then we go our separate ways. I can't believe tax paying ranchers would want the expense and bureacracy of getting a warrant added to game law enforcement costs. My advce to you is be careful of what you wish for it might come true.

 

[Northern Rancher]

As a hunter,rancher and LANDOWNER I have no problem at all being checked out by a game warden-if I'm not doing anything wrong it is about a 5 minute conversation then we go our separate ways. I can't believe tax paying ranchers would want the expense and bureacracy of getting a warrant added to game law enforcement costs. My advce to you is be careful of what you wish for it might come true.

 

[Southdakotahunter]

The difference between the NORMAL law man and the warden, is the warden is checkin on the animals that are owned by the public. , no different than you, the rancher checking on your herd or flock. the warden is checking on the flock of the people and needs to check on that flock, and protect it, at all times and running half way across the country to get permission is really out of the question, especially with some landowners who live elsewhere, out of state, out of county, out of country?

tell me the truth....if the warden called or stopped by today.....would you let him out on your place? I think the Lockout people just want to snub their noses at the wardens because of some bad experiences and that is really too bad. the game fish and parks needs to clean out some bad apples but that wont help with some landowners, they just have a hard on for any gfp

I know cops can enter a bar at any time to check for underage compsumption or whatever they want. should they be able to do that? The bar is private property is it not? Shouldnt they need a search warent to check age or should they just wait in the street for everyone to leave?

I dont know.... Just be consistant. Have your lockout but dont make it a joke by picking and choosing. be firm...no hunting is no hunting.

 

[Juan]

.Reader.......

"there seems to be a belief in some parts of the West that we have no obligations and that we can have our rights and benefits as a citizen without any obligations"
Why don't you name those parts?

 

[Tumbleweed]

They (highway patrol) left but were pretty unhappy about it.

Just try and kick a game warden out....

I think the problem with Game wardens is the "warrantless search" with no indication of a crime commited..

if you are engaged in a legal activity and on private land, how can law enforcement "search" with out a warrant?


Private property owners should be allowed to "regulate" thier own land.

if the game warden sees illegal activity, or believes there is illegal activity, let then get a warrant like any other law enforcement officer would be required by law to get,.....otherwise it is an illegal search.

Steve I liked your post and think it says pretty well how I feel about this issue.

 

[Liberty Belle]

The difference between the NORMAL law man and the warden, is the warden is checkin on the animals that are owned by the public. , no different than you, the rancher checking on your herd or flock

Does this mean you consider game wardens to be abnormal? :?

There is a BIG difference between a rancher checking his own livestock and a game warden checking on game owned by the state. The rancher does his checking on land owned or leased by him, land he pays taxes on, fixes the fences, puts up hay and uses good grazing practices so he can continue to stay in business.

One the other hand, the state does NO management of the state owned livestock, accepts no responsibility for the damage they do to vehicles, fences, haystacks, or grazing, and expects the landowner to foot the entire bill for raising the state's livestock that the landowner is not even allowed to shoot on his own land.

Everyone else who runs livestock on my pastures pays me pasture rent for the grass his livestock eats. Depending on the agreement we've made ahead of time, some of them will even fix fence, repair stack yards and pay for the upkeep on the windmills, should they need fixing. However, landowners receive NO compensation of any kind for feeding and housing YOUR livestock – and we're supposed to welcome a game warden driving across our pastures to "check on animals owned by the public" without even doing us the courtesy of letting us know he's out there? Give me a break!!! :evil:

Thanks for your comments Tumbleweed and Steve. You have a good grasp of the situation.

 

[Liberty Belle]

you took the words out of my mouth....the critters were here long before you ever bought or settled the land. You knew the animals were there and if you now feel it is necessary to be compensated for them surviving, your HI.......I am not looking for something for nothing. Im not looking even for something. I have asked to hunt before and have been told yes, and have been told no. you never know until you ask and if they say no thats cool. no prob. I do know there are some who also want something for nothin....and that goes to the rancher also. I know for a fact some ranchers wont let hunting but then complain to the gfp during a bad winter the deer are eating their haystacks and want the gfp to come out and feed the deer even tho the landowner had a chance to at least help to thin the herd some by letting people hunt. Again, i am not looking for a free hand out. everyone needs to make a buck. I got bills to pay also and i may even ask for some $ if i was in their position.

Southdakotahunter - I just read through this asinine statement of yours and as useless as I realize trying to explain anything to you is, I have to take a couple stabs at some of your garbage.

Do you realize that when my great grandparents first settled this land there were NO whitetail deer, hardly any mule deer and so few antelope that ranchers joined together with the state to help build an antelope herd, with the very few they could find, on a ranch bought by SDSU in Harding County called the Antelope Range Station? Without the efforts of private ranchers there would be no game out here for hunters to shoot, not even on public land.

Shows you just how smart we are, doesn't it? If Grandpa and the other old guys like him would have just shot the antelope and those few muleys, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But to try to say the farmer needs to be compensated because the wildlife is eating their grass and they are not letting people hunt, unless its for $500 or more is crazy. THis will settle your problems.....6ft chain link fence. Keep the gfp out, keep all the game in. Might want to kill the critters first tho because they might eat some grass or poop on your ground and we sure cant have that, because some want something for nothing.

How about you come out here and help the GF&P round up the state's game from our pastures, put all the deer, antelope, coyotes, and prairie dogs on National Forest land with that 6 foot fence to keep them in, and we'll all be happy.

Oh, and when you come, I'd like a check made out to my account to pay for the hay your game has ruined this winter, the grass they ate this summer, and the latest damage to my vehicle when your deer ran into the side of my car the other night.

My 2cents worth.......My land is MY land.....you want land to hike over, hunt on or just sit and admire....go buy some for yourself.

I had to buy mine.....I have to pay the taxes on it....I have to fix the fences/gates. etc when someone who IS NOT supposed to have been there has torn them down, or shot the locks open.

You want those pleasures of the land....you should have to take the lumps also ( taxes, cost of upkeep etc).

kolanuraven, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Jinglebob]

.Reader.......

"there seems to be a belief in some parts of the West that we have no obligations and that we can have our rights and benefits as a citizen without any obligations"
Why don't you name those parts?

She probably don't have big enough "huevo's" for it. :wink:

 

[Faster horses]

You are coverin' a LOT of country there, reader2.