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When a neighbor goes behind your back is it just business?

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Is it acceptable for a neighbor to take a long standing lease away from another neighbor by doing it

  • Yes, it's just business and with the lack of moisture any way you can get summer pasture is just goo

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  • No, there is an unspoken rule about being a neighbor.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I have a mixed opinion.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
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Most of my neighbors are great. there is one or two that are greedy and will do anything to get the last acre of land no matter what he has to do for it.And there is one that his word dont mean sh-t.I found the best way to deal with them is not to deal with them..I am the kinda guy that likes a handshake deal and with most people around here that is good enough. But i know enough to know when to get a contract signed when dealing with certain people.And i know a guy or two not to deal with contract or not. I am not REALLY old but i do miss the good ole days. :)
 
If you have a written agreement, fine. If you're working year to year on a handshake, it's ALWAYS open to somebody else to put their bid in.
 
Thw OWNER of the land should have contacted the person who had been renting the land and told them "So and so said he'd pay me X dollars to rent the place. Would you still be interested in renting the land at that price?"

The owner is as much to blame as the "new renter", in my book. The fella who had rented it for years should have had a chance, at least. Greed works both ways.
 
southwestcwby said:
Funny how that one little ole lonely vote up there for the business is business choice is staying only one vote. :lol: must be someone who has never been around cow or farm folks or who has never had to help pull a neighbor out of the mud or had them do the same for you.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
southwestcwby said:
Funny how that one little ole lonely vote up there for the business is business choice is staying only one vote. :lol: must be someone who has never been around cow or farm folks or who has never had to help pull a neighbor out of the mud or had them do the same for you.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I wish!!! This statement shows how little you DO know or pay attention here.


Yeah, I don't know a thing about putting snuff in cows eyes!!!!
 
The landowner is sometimes a snake as well.

We have two of them in this area - - - one is on his death bed and very few will miss him. His land sits idle about 1 year out of three and I can only think of two occasions when it was rented to the same person twice - - - It seems they always refuse further contact and then he will find an outsider that will come in for a year , get burnt and never come back.

We have another one who made some quick money, bought some ground and calls everyone every year to try to get the most in rent. He will trash talk everyone that has ever rented from him but with the high grain prices he keeps getting renters for now. If bad times come again in the grain markets he will probably have to sell as most of the good farmers in this area dispise him.

Most of the time if you conduct yourself well you will be rewarded ( my son has taken over the grain farming and has followed my example - - - he clears every landlords drive every time it snows, mows road sides at least three times every year, pasys rent on time, brings soil tests to the landowner, etc.) and he is still picking up ground - - he discusses the rent amount and pays a fair price. Several years ago we lost a couple of farms to a fast talker who offered high rent but after the crops were harvested the landlord did not get paid. We got the ground back and I doubt we will ever loose it again.
 
I have a neighbor of the sort you speak of George. I gave up all my rented land and it was the best thing I ever done for myself. I had rented it for over 10 yrs , then one day WHAM it was over.

They've had renter after renter since then and even came back to me to ask me to return but I said NO. They themselves were just too much trouble to mess with after I realized how much easier my world had become WITHOUT them and their demands!

In fact, they have managed to pizz off everyone in this valley one by one. All of the neighbors have been warned not to set foot on the place for any reason....so this has been taken to heart and if something bad happened over there....I dare say we'd be a bit hesitant to venture over for fear of a trespassing lawsuit.

It's bad but sometimes that's what shakes out.
 
We are from the 'old school' and believe in the Code of the West.

Taking pasture away from another is NOT acceptable to us.

But sometimes, things are not as they appear.

Here is what happened to us once in W. Montana. There was some pasture for lease. 'Person X' got the lease (I'll not call him a neighbor or a friend). That fall, the peson who owns the land talked to us about leasing it. He said that "Person X" said he would take it and then never put one head of cattle on the pasture and never paid him a cent and that he would NEVER do business with "Person X" again... So, we said we would take the pasture (and was really glad to get it..) So the next spring, "Person X" called us up. He was plenty mad and said, "well, you think you have a pasture lease tied up and then you find out you don't because someone slipped in on you."

Mr. FH hates trouble with a passion. So he told "Person X"..."I'll tell you what...you just call up (the landowner) and if he will lease you the pasture, you can have it." Of course, "Person X" knew that wasn't possible and that ended it.

We had that pasture for 10 years, right up until the time we moved to SE Montana.

"Person X" was a real jerk. When he left that area, he went to say Good-bye to one of his neighbors, who told him at that time, "I wish you were dead instead of going to another community and stirring up trouble."

Everyone had a story to tell about him and none of them were good.

Here is something that I have really appreciated. It is framed and hung on the wall:

THE MAN IN THE GLASS

When you get what you want in your struggle for self
And the world makes you king for a day
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
And see what that man has to say.

For it isn't your father or mother or wife
Whose judgement upon you must pass
The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one staring back from the glass.

You may be like Jack Horner and chisel a plum
and think you're a wonderful guy;
but he man in the glass says you're only a bum
if you can't look him straight in the eye.

He's the fellow to please; never mind all the rest
for he's with you clear up to the end
and you've passed your most dangerous, difficult task
if the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years
and get pats on the back as you pass
but your final reward will be heartache and tears
if you've cheated the man in the glass.
 
Treat rented land like you own it.
When the owner sees his land is taken care of and sees improvements, he is happy.
When other landowners see how you take care and improve rented land, they will want you to rent their land.
In thirty years of farming and ranching, I've never had to look for land to rent...it has always come to me.

Got to go see my lawyer now...to buy some land next to me! :wink: :)
 
I have to live around the people that live around me. So I think it is best to be up front with all involved when renting land. If the owner wants to change tenants let the current renter know. But what I have seen happen most times are the two farmers or two tenants talk about it. I have had owners ask if I wanted to rent their land and I know full well that someone else is working it. I just tell the owner when he offers that I might be interested but I need to put a panicle to it and I will let him know in a day or two. Next, I go to the current renter and let them know what is going on. I say something like "Are you going to work the so and so's place next year?" most times they have already told the owner that they don't want it or what ever. This does two things. One it helps you keep a friend and you also can find out how good the land is along what it has had put on it and what it needs.
I have had the previous tenant not be aware that the owner is trying to rent to another. In this case, the original tenant had an order in for lime to be delivered the next day and put on the land. It saved him the loss of the lime and let me know how sneaky the owner was. That land is now grown up. And no one rents it.
In order to rent and care for land I have to have confidence in the owner that he will no let me lose my investment in caring for the land. In turn, I pay my rent early and do what I say I am going to do.
I rent one small patch of hay that the owner did not want and rent payment for it. I insisted that I have a lease and pay a fair price. This helps keep the owner honest and happy at the same time.
 
This has been a great post! Thanks cattle army for starting it. Also thanks faster horses for the great poem. There is a fine line to walk when dealing with land deals and sometimes the public doesn't know all the sides to make an informed judgement. All in all I believe we all know when someone is a ruthless individual or neighbor. In the end all we have left is to be content and proud of the person looking back at us in the mirror. I'd rather lose land than to farm it if I have to be a ruthless, sneaky person to do it.
 
I think the key word here is " to go behind his back and mke a deal. There are a lot of different situations out there so one size doesn't fit all. I do not believe a good neighbor wiould rent land away from his neighbor If a landlord is not satisfied with his renter he shuld contact him first and register his complaint. A lot of people will not admit that they have not been a good renter. If a piece of land is put up to bid to the highest bidder, in reality anyone has a chance to get in, but a good neighbor most likely would not bid against a neighbor who has been using it.

It is to easy to just say it is good just busines, we all have to live, but that is a poor excuse for a good and considerate neighbor to use. I have seen all kinds of situations, sometimes it is hard to say which is right or wrong. I have seen hard feelings, have heard of fist fights and the making of lifelong enemies over these kind of deals. Like FH says, see what the man in the mirror has to say about it. You may believe you can fool those around you, but you really cannot fool him.
 
My dad always had a saying that the only thing you took to your grave was your name and what you made of your name was up to you....
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Those are sure words to live by. If a man isn't honest with himself there is no way he will be honest to his neighbors.
 
One other thing, I have always gotten everything in writing- - - - this is not due to distrust. What happens if I ( or a landlord ) was killed today - - there needs to be a document to give the living some where to start from. This is not a long formall document it is just a check list that is filled out with the landlord and both sign and both keep a copy. I encourage the landlord to share the location of the document with their family even if they do not share the contents.

If we apply line we get it in the lease we have 6 years to continue farming that ground, also if we tile fields ( new tile, we repair broken tiles on an ongoing basis ) we determine a fair lenght of time for a return on the money we spend on the tiling and put that in the lease. This is all discussed with the landlord ahead of time and agreed upon before we move forward.

We have one landlord who pays for the lime and tiling himself although we have told him what we do for others and we just keep getting more acres as he keeps buying more ground. He stated once he needed the tax right offs.
 
George, what has been the average years you agree on if you pay to tile rented ground? Also is the rent price locked in for the same amount of time? Thanks
 
It depends on how much tilling is needed. The last farm we did we locked it in for 6 years with no raises but when grain went up we increased the rent - - - it was just the fair thing to do and I feel it will pay off in the long run.

We are looking at a farm ( the owner called us ) that needs a lot done and we want it locked up for 8 to 10 years but if they will not agree we will not rent the ground. Right now they might get a diecent rent without doing anything to it but I feel the person who puts out the ground is gambling and with the increase in fert prices I feel they will mine the ground and then the landlord will have to start shopping for another tennant.
 
Thanks for the info. We rent a piece of ground that we worked hard to get small tree seedlings from a wetter area in the field only to have neighbor tile right into the culvert that runs into the field. We couldn't farm it this year. I hate to see a bunch of seedling spring up again. The landlords are great people and said they would consider tiling but it is hard to get the tilers to stick around in the area long enough to get a quote and then pass on the info to out of state landlords. So I think if we can pay for it and have years guaranteed to rent that would be good for everyone. I'm ready to smell the good black dirt again!!
 
Thank you everyone for your input. Reading the posts it is interesting and makes me feel that there is still hope when I read and see a lot of people still value their neighbors and doing the right thing. Possibly there is more to life then just business.
 

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