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Who is responsible for the border staying closed?

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southdevon

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I guess what i just want to know is what everyone thinks about this issue, what they think we should do to improve our status, and any other input. I am writing a paper with your input and suggestions, names WILL NOT BE MENTIONED, unless you request it.

Thankyou,
Sam Fraser
 

Murgen

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Sam, are you talking about North american borders or export markets?
 

Big Muddy rancher

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March 7th was the date USDA slated the border would open to Canadian beef and R-CALF went to court and got the Injunction. I would say R-CALF is keeping the border closed. They at times even like to take credit for closing it in the first place but that was because of outdated BSE trade rules.
As far as International markets some are using the BSE as a trade deterant and other countries are starting to open up as the under stand Bse better.
 

southdevon

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Great, you guys post fast, i need opinions, blow off some steam if you want to, i need all angles. Personally, i am a member of R-CALF, and the MCA, and i need this input to have a non-bias view on this subject and learn more from a different perspective.
 

Murgen

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Sam, an R-calf member who wants a different opinion? That's different, haven't seen that before on Ranchers! But don't be offended if your desire for input is met with a little sceptitism!
 

SMS

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who is to blame? We all are.

The cattlemen in north america for not putting more pressure on our goverments to update BSE regulation's in both countries.

The goverments for dragging their feet on maintaining up todate regs, and for not allowing BSE testing on all OTM cattle years ago. Or at least the 4D cattle.

The packers for being lazy and not expanding beef markets and relying on the north americian market to be the backbone of the industry. Also the packing industry for almagamating to a few large plants, which meant there was a need for live cattle to be exported from cattle. Only boxed beef should be leaving either country.

The feedlots for not following M&BM regulations, cause of greed.

The public for believing the lies that political lobby groups throw around for the betterment of their own greed.

So you can see there is lots of blame for everyone. No one is completly innocent on this issue. If you want to bring it down to one common thread of blame, I think it is cause of "Short term profits and Greed, while sacrificing the long term viability of the industry".

Hope this helps you.

With a name like SouthDevon, you can be all bad even if you are an RCALFER..... :lol:

R. McGregor
http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/mcgregor
 

Clarence

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Sam,

R-calf has done some things to keep the border closed, but I think they are trying to take more credit them they are entitled. I really don't think that by themselves they have that much clout.

I think the main thing is that there are so many unknowns. How did it get into North America? It seems no one wants to find the real source. We never had a case of BSE until rcently, so the source is from outside. The feed ban and ban on imports of ruminant byproducts have been in place for some time. All the testing of the 4ds and those entering slaughter plants may tell how prevalant the disease is but does nothing to find the source. I don't buy the spontaneous theory because non has been found in Mexico, Auturalia, New Zealand or Brazil.
 

Bill

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Clarence said:
Sam,

R-calf has done some things to keep the border closed, but I think they are trying to take more credit them they are entitled. I really don't think that by themselves they have that much clout.

I think the main thing is that there are so many unknowns. How did it get into North America? It seems no one wants to find the real source. We never had a case of BSE until rcently, so the source is from outside. The feed ban and ban on imports of ruminant byproducts have been in place for some time. All the testing of the 4ds and those entering slaughter plants may tell how prevalant the disease is but does nothing to find the source. I don't buy the spontaneous theory because non has been found in Mexico, Auturalia, New Zealand or Brazil.

I would suggest that it is in ALL countries it has either not been "found" or simply not reported.
 

Mike

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Clarence, "I think the main thing is that there are so many unknowns. How did it get into North America? It seems no one wants to find the real source. We never had a case of BSE until rcently, so the source is from outside."
--------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1993 BSE was detected in a cow imported from England to Canada in (I believe) in 1987, at the beginning of the epidemic in England. Could this be where it started here in North America?
 

Murgen

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I don't buy the spontaneous theory because non has been found in Mexico, Auturalia, New Zealand or Brazil.

But it's been found to be spnotaneous in Humans. 350 cases/year in the US. Things that make you go Hmmmmm!
 

rkaiser

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:) Mike from Alabama - The imported cow that came to Canada from the UK in the 80's is what the whole debacle is based on. It has been a very good story, and everyone is eating it up, but let's get real. BSE is everywhere in the world. Testing finds it. How many cattle were tested for BSE in the 60's or 70's ------ none. The whole epidemic infectious paranoia theory has been very useful for those who choose to take advantage of it, but cannon fodder ranchers have felt the brunt all over the world. And as much as some American ranchers feel they are immuned to problems from BSE, the day will come. No rancher is immune, not in Mexico, Brazil, the USA, or anywhere in the world. If testing is done, it will occur, and as long as we all follow the reader(the seconds) of the world and their paranoid infectious theory, ranchers will suffer.

Time to seach out the cause, instead of following one theory which has never been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
 

Sandhusker

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Sam,
I'm a R-CALF member. Here's the way I see it;

Prior to May 23, 2003, the USDA had a zero tolerance policy towads BSE. They adopted this policy to protect the health of our consumers and our herd. If a country reported it, we shut the border to them and there was no talk about reopening. On May 23, 2003, Canada reported they had BSE and we closed the border to them per our policy. HOWEVER, two days later on May 25, they issued a release stating a desire to reopen the border. They had never done this with any other country. Suddenly, the Canada situation had changed from a HEALTH issue to an ECONOMIC issue. I have my theories why, but that is another story than what you're looking for.

R-CALF smelled a rat, hollered "foul" and the USDA was caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They came up with a lot of reasons to open the border - even trying to skirt their own rules to do so, but they were and are in a sticky mess (Oh, what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive).

R-CALF then forced their hand in court. R-CALF presented their side, USDA presented theirs, and the Judge ruled for R-CALF. Some on this board like to call R-CALF liars, but their "lies" seem to of held up in court. Either they purgered themselves or they're onto someting.

Summary: The direct reason the border is closed is because of a court ruling. Judge Cebull could of let it open had he ruled differently. The indirect reason the border is closed is because the USDA, for whatever reason, tried to use bull-s### and the back door to open it, and R-CALF was watching. This is a mess the USDA brought on themselves.

What do I thnk we can do about it? Everybody is argueing and speculating about who has BSE and to what degree. I see no other way to cut thru all this than to test all we can so everybody KNOWS. You can't fix a problem until you know what it is.
 

rkaiser

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Like I said before -

"The whole epidemic infectious paranoia theory has been very useful for those who choose to take advantage of it, but cannon fodder ranchers have felt the brunt all over the world."

Sometimes that even means ranchers vs. ranchers.

Offence - Defence - Rcalf is only after gain from the situation. All the explaining in the world will never get beyond the fact of seeing opportunity and taking it.
 

Murgen

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Sand husker, the date was May 20, 2003, obviously it didn't affect you that badly or else you would have remembered the date, we in Canada do!
 

Mike

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rkaiser said:
:) Mike from Alabama - The imported cow that came to Canada from the UK in the 80's is what the whole debacle is based on. It has been a very good story, and everyone is eating it up, but let's get real. BSE is everywhere in the world. Testing finds it. How many cattle were tested for BSE in the 60's or 70's ------ none. The whole epidemic infectious paranoia theory has been very useful for those who choose to take advantage of it, but cannon fodder ranchers have felt the brunt all over the world. And as much as some American ranchers feel they are immuned to problems from BSE, the day will come. No rancher is immune, not in Mexico, Brazil, the USA, or anywhere in the world. If testing is done, it will occur, and as long as we all follow the reader(the seconds) of the world and their paranoid infectious theory, ranchers will suffer.

Time to seach out the cause, instead of following one theory which has never been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So what do we do rkaiser? Not test? I understand your skepticism of science at this time but it is all we have! The money Canada has recently appropriated for research is a start but might be too little too late for some ranchers. Do we just ignore modern science?
 

Murgen

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Hat, just wondering if the owner is named GOD, how would he know what we are thnking?
 

don

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The owner of our sale barn said that the Canadians want us to find a BSE cow so bad they will do and say anything to find one? What does everyone think?

i think the owner of your sale barn probably knows he should say what people want to hear and the commissions will keep rolling in.
 

Sandhusker

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Murgen said:
Sand husker, the date was May 20, 2003, obviously it didn't affect you that badly or else you would have remembered the date, we in Canada do!

I stand corrected.
 

southdevon

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Ok, good thread, keeping it alive by asking this:

If canada's quality control is so good, and they're government involvement is second to none why are the only cases of BSE reported in the US from canadian cattle, and why are canidian feedlots, and feeders still feeding animal by-products? You must clean the leaves out of the raingutter before the water will flow. STOP feeding animal by-products, and test, quarintene, and eliminate possible threats to the canidian food supply, and the american food supply.
 

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