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Who is responsible for the border staying closed?

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Sandhusker....you should do some basic research before you post your theories!! The USDA waited months before agreeing to even examine re-opening the border to Canadian beef. Our industry underwent a thorough risk analysis by Harvard University and it was determined (the same as the US later I believe) that Canada DEFINATELY qualified as a minimum risk country under OIE recommendations!! This led to the USDA posting of the proposed rules to resume Canadian trade. This process has been sabotaged twice now by the deliberate lies, distortions and scare tactics of your R-cult. Time will prove the folly of your organizations tactics; I just hope that there is an industry left at the end of the process :!:

As for SouthDevon pull your head out of the sand,you were supposed to be looking for accurate info and everything you just posted is completely wrong!!!! Obviously you are in the running to be the poster boy for R-cult! :mad:
 
Cowsense,

I will interject some opinions every now and then to get a stimulus out of people, that makes for good views. If you think my head is in the sand, tell me where the cattle in confirmed cases of BSE in the US originated from, and why in a recent test of alberta, and BC feedlots did inspectors still find feeders that are using animal by-products? I am not blabbing about rcalf or anything, i want to know!
 
southdevon, you seem to want to know but it's pretty obvious you already have a one-sided opinion already formed in your mind. Not a little bit influenced, are you?
 
SouthDevon- Canada has had a feed ban in place since 97 and numerous audits both by CFIA, USDA& NCBA report that it is being adhered to. Last summer it was reported that microscopic amounts of unknown origin were found in several feed samples (including some US imports). These were determined to be to small even to DNA test for origin but could be accounted as feather, insect & rodent contamination. An overblown account by an overzealous reporter trying to make points. Canada DOES have a very rigourous and effective surveillance program in effect, It goes one step better than yours in that the highest risk population (4D category) are the ones that are tested as recommended by the OIE. As far as quarantine's go BSE is not a contagious disease so that's not an issue. I'm proud of our Canadian cattle industry and feel that we are producing the best quality,safest, identity verified beef anywhere :!:
 
southdevon said:
Cowsense,

I will interject some opinions every now and then to get a stimulus out of people, that makes for good views. If you think my head is in the sand, tell me where the cattle in confirmed cases of BSE in the US originated from, and why in a recent test of alberta, and BC feedlots did inspectors still find feeders that are using animal by-products? I am not blabbing about rcalf or anything, i want to know!
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SouthDevon, you are probably a deceiver deluxe, and I do think your head is in something. I didn't know there were confirmed (US)"cases" until you just let us know. I thought it was just the Washington cow. Where are the results of your recent "test" of AB & BC feedlots using Animal By-Products?
 
R-CALF smelled a rat, hollered "foul" and the USDA was caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They came up with a lot of reasons to open the border - even trying to skirt their own rules to do so, but they were and are in a sticky mess (Oh, what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive).

R-CALF then forced their hand in court. R-CALF presented their side, USDA presented theirs, and the Judge ruled for R-CALF. Some on this board like to call R-CALF liars, but their "lies" seem to of held up in court. Either they purgered themselves or they're onto someting.

Summary: The direct reason the border is closed is because of a court ruling. Judge Cebull could of let it open had he ruled differently. The indirect reason the border is closed is because the USDA, for whatever reason, tried to use bull-s### and the back door to open it, and R-CALF was watching. This is a mess the USDA brought on themselves.

I see no other way to cut thru all this than to test all we can so everybody KNOWS. You can't fix a problem until you know what it is.

Response...You have two different issues here Sandhusker. In the first situation R-Calf was correct to point out that the USDA has violated their own protocol. I commend them for that .

The second issue which Judge Cebull just ruled on is a different issue entirely. Every indication is that he wrote that opinion before the actual hearing. He fell for R- Calf's views, not the science presented by the USDA. His 28 page opinion was almost a total repeat of R-Calf position.

You may not be aware but the ninth circuit court of appeals has allowed the NAM ( National Meat Association) intervener status in an emergency hearing Friday. This was granted Friday evening. The circuit court evidently didn't agree with the judges opinion that "no harm would be caused if the status quo was maintained." The judge himself was remiss in following the law; that is another subject though. Does it not concern you that the circuit court of appeals acted that quickly on this issue? The USDA will ultimately prevail in a full trial when fact will come face-to-face with R-Calf's fiction.

Regarding your continuous and ill advised position of testing all cattle, this positioin has no scientific merit. In sum, since you apparently don't yet understand that current testing methods are unable to detect the presence of the BSE prion in animals under 20 months of age why would any rationale person want to test all animals? How many high risk BSE countries test all cattle? Have a great day. agman
 
:) I'll respond to agman first since he's right there above me. How can any rational person want testing? Nothing about this debacle has been rational since May 20, 2003.

And that leads to my answer to Mike's question. I do beleive that we should be testing cattle for BSE for marketing purposes. And only for marketing purposes. This is my personal view of a way that could and would have saved a lot of Canadian ranchers from biting the big one since this whole mess began.

Otherwise, BSE testing is as irrational as the infectious theory itself. BSE has been around for years and we have eaten animals with it and fed other cattle with it for all those years. It is only a problem because humans made it into a problem.

As far as South Devon is concerned, consider your options. Do you feel that tagging along with a self serving gang of old world thinkers will get you where you want to be 10 years from now, or do you want to get on with life in the Global trade of Beef?

I don't expect any of you to agree with my thoughts or even Mark's words regarding metal contamination and environmental causes for BSE. But please remeber that science has had nothing to do with any of this from the begining, and to talk of irrationality for testing is as irrational as following one unproven theory of BSE; the one we are all caught up in.
 
Agman:"Regarding your continuous and ill advised position of testing all cattle, this positioin has no scientific merit. In sum, since you apparently don't yet understand that current testing methods are unable to detect the presence of the BSE prion in animals under 20 months of age why would any rationale person want to test all animals? How many high risk BSE countries test all cattle? Have a great day. agman"

It pleases me to see that you and SH have moved your positions from 30 month to 20 months concerning the age of BSE detection in cattle. Just a few short weeks ago both of your positions in the same arguments were at 30 months, the USDA's magic number in Canadian and US cattle. Glad to see you both are finally coming around.
 
Mike,

The OIE standard is 30 months but I am willing to acknowledge the few animals that tested positive over 20 months that may or may not have been confirmed with modern testing methodology.

That doesn't say how many animals under 30 months tested negative and would have developed BSE later in life because the prions were undetectable at that age.

The standard is still 30 months of age in order to have detectable prions in the majority of animals.


~SH~
 
agman said:
In sum, since you apparently don't yet understand that current testing methods are unable to detect the presence of the BSE prion in animals under 20 months of age why would any rationale person want to test all animals? How many high risk BSE countries test all cattle? Have a great day. agman
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With all due respect agman, desperate people do irrational and desperate things. I think you fail to realise the extent of desperation felt by Canada. I know NCBA has and thankfully we have gotten past our trust in them.

Testing will happen in Canada and sooner than many think. Irrational or not it is needed for us to survive long term and break our dependence on the US market place and where that leaves American producers will remain to be seen. It will be tough to keep the next US BSE case from causing mass panic in both countries so the sooner we distance ourselves from the US the better.
 
:roll: You've made a very good point there Bill. The utterly irrational stance by some Americans concernig the occurance of BSE in Canada vs. the USA is like a cache of weapons of mass destruction waiting to explode. Damn good thing we, in Canada, have a border, and yes finding that alternate route will be very good in the long run.

How do you like living right among those terrorists playing with fire South Devon?
 
Well, i havent seen and trucks with canadian cattle going by my door, which used to be all of the time. So i would say life on the front lines is good for now.
 
damn think of the US fuel they're not buying, not to mention the US made trucks that are not needed anymore. The losses by not having pre BSE trade are not limited to the Beef industry. Take a look at the big picture for a minute and forget the selfishness of your statements.
 
The US fuel they are not burning is overpriced crap sold by big oil companies, and the US trucks are hauling hay or more US cattle. By the way most trucks with canadian cattle on them were CANADIAN trucks to begin with. So the canadian truck drivers burning american fuel would much rather stay in canada and run where it is cheaper.
 
Well, maybe you don't know what a Reefer trailer looks like, but they are sure going by your door in record numbers.
 
So the canadian truck drivers burning american fuel would much rather stay in canada and run where it is cheaper.
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Cheaper drugs, cheaper fuel, cheaper food. Canada is looking like the better country to live in all the time.
 
~SH~ said:
Mike,

The OIE standard is 30 months but I am willing to acknowledge the few animals that tested positive over 20 months that may or may not have been confirmed with modern testing methodology.

That doesn't say how many animals under 30 months tested negative and would have developed BSE later in life because the prions were undetectable at that age.

The standard is still 30 months of age in order to have detectable prions in the majority of animals.


~SH~
Click to expand...
Response:For the life of me I can't find any "30 MONTH OIE STANDARD" for testing age. Many European countries minimal age of testing cut-off is 24 months and some with Over-Thirty-Month being desposed of and not allowed in the food chain. England has just proposed an ordinance to eliminate all cattle over 30 months.

SH:"That doesn't say how many animals under 30 months tested negative and would have developed BSE later in life because the prions were undetectable at that age."

Response: Surprised to hear you say that prions could be in younger cattle but be undetectable, "at that age"! You are only adding fuel to the fire to the position for testing younger cattle as tests become more sensitive.
 

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