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Why the downward slide?

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Brad S said:
I'm as bad as anyone at packer bashing I guess, but six months ago, a year ago and 2 years ago packers were losing a lot of money. We didn't care much back then about their troubles.

Whoever mentioned $1 calves might be right. (In round numbers) We're only $15 above $1 fed beef and trending down. Feed yard cog is $1 - there's your $1 calves there unless there's a stocker feeder with someone money left to feed on wheat pasture. If fats go to a buck, and corn rallies, we could see less than $1 calves.

FH, something isn't right with your friends situation, and I'm guessing the feed yard has "other cattle" higher on the show list. Ol sneaky mr packer ain't bashful about gut shooting a bid. About the only advantage commercial feeders have over private feeders is "access to buyers." I prolly already said too much, but showing up at the feed yard is good business.

I don't know, and I'll admit it.....I only know he has sent calves to the feedlot to finish for many, many years. He says you better have deep pockets and then they get turned inside out at times. He says that over a 10 year span, the cattle he sends on feed has made him money.
Again, I don't know any of the particulars....just that I quoted what he mentioned last time we were there. I do know and readily agree, that wherever you have cattle, you need to visit them whenever you can.
 
Brad S said:
I'm as bad as anyone at packer bashing I guess, but six months ago, a year ago and 2 years ago packers were losing a lot of money. We didn't care much back then about their troubles.

Whoever mentioned $1 calves might be right. (In round numbers) We're only $15 above $1 fed beef and trending down. Feed yard cog is $1 - there's your $1 calves there unless there's a stocker feeder with someone money left to feed on wheat pasture. If fats go to a buck, and corn rallies, we could see less than $1 calves.

FH, something isn't right with your friends situation, and I'm guessing the feed yard has "other cattle" higher on the show list. Ol sneaky mr packer ain't bashful about gut shooting a bid. About the only advantage commercial feeders have over private feeders is "access to buyers." I prolly already said too much, but showing up at the feed yard is good business.
I'm still hearing .70 COG. I honestly don't know though
 
Yeah, with nickel corn and choice alfalfa, you can put it on pretty cheap especially at home if you originated the corn (best case might get close to $.35 feed cost). These over fed pigs wallering in the panhandle are not so cheap to feed.
 
Aside from vegetarians most people eat some source of protein. When packers own hogs, poultry and cattle you can break one protein source and still be making money.
 
mrj said:
Again, there are at least dozens of PRIVATE ENTERPRISE labeled beef brands. Apparently, some producers want government to do it for them. Hasn't it been pretty well learned that anything government does for us costs more and creates problems? Check out the government rules for labeling beef! More government regulation costs more money. Add that to already high beef costs to consumers and we may have found a real, rather than a perceived barrier to more sales of beef.

A little addressed consideration: some, even on this site, like to bash Canadian beef producers, but should take a good look in their own country. Sadly, not all USA produced beef is of top quality. What happens when our consumers get a package of that proudly labeled beef that is tough, or worse, just not great quality ???? Not likely to be a satisfied consumer, especially given the high cost to quality ratio, is it?

For those who base their thoughts on the beef business (and, YES, even a producer of the smallest 'herd' of cattle IS a part of the 'beef business' in the USA!) on hatred of NCBA, the major goal of our members is for each of us to improve OUR segment of that US beef business BY improving consumer satisfaction. We understand that to achieve that goal, we must constantly improve our own 'act' and make sure our own cattle are the best they can be, then lean on the other segments to have the same goals. Keeping the market place the place to set the bar, rather than a "made in the USA" label which has absolutely NOTHING to do with quality! We obviously need many types of beef to please the wide array of consumer choices, and the Beef Check Off is doing some great work in showing consumers how to choose the best cuts and quality of beef for their specific need, which is helping make more satisfied beef consumers.

Apparently those who tout the labels on apples as some sort of 'holy grail' of quality have not eaten some carrying those labels lately! It takes quite a few disappointments to find one which actually tastes worthy of a label, imo.

mrj
Not trying to be contentious, but apparently checkoff dollars are promoting US beef in the UAE, and some other countries, promoting a quality product. A bit of a head scratcher.

http://www.usmef.org/news-statistics/member-news-archive/u-s-beefs-quality-promoted-to-consumers-in-uae-kuwait-and-oman/
 
Packers love selling the good, but high dollar, cuts overseas and replacing that beef in the U.S. with the Argentine, Mexican, etc. scraps. Obama just mentioned today his Trade Deal will send much more beef to Japan and the far East.
 
Mike said:
Packers love selling the good, but high dollar, cuts overseas and replacing that beef in the U.S. with the Argentine, Mexican, etc. scraps. Obama just mentioned today his Trade Deal will send much more beef to Japan and the far East.

Mike, are you saying you do not believe US producers benefit when packers sell beef for higher prices, wherever that beef is sold?

Granted, there are some consumers in foreign countries who can afford the top quality beef, just as they can afford to buy the highest quality cars.......and it is the same in this country.

Isn't it a good thing that there is a range of prices so that more people can afford to eat beef.......or to buy a car, even if it is at the bottom of the price range?

The trade rules are intended to assure the safety of imported beef.....or cars......is the same wherever the origin. There may be some failures, but it seems better to make the effort and participate in world trade. Isolation has been over for a very long time.

But, we are talking two separate issues here. Those who insist on eating US beef can choose from at least 130 different privately labeled brands of beef sold in this country. For me, a major issue with cool, due to participating in consumer panels a few years ago was that consumers said they wanted to know RANCH or origin, not just country. So, why did proponents of COOL insist that information be denied them? Further, why can't they join together, or individually, sell their own cattle under a USA label? Wouldn't a label which stated something like "ranch of Joe Blow, city, state, USA have been more likely to pass the WTO rules, had it been a producer process rather than government mandated?

mrj
 
Traveler said:
mrj said:
Again, there are at least dozens of PRIVATE ENTERPRISE labeled beef brands. Apparently, some producers want government to do it for them. Hasn't it been pretty well learned that anything government does for us costs more and creates problems? Check out the government rules for labeling beef! More government regulation costs more money. Add that to already high beef costs to consumers and we may have found a real, rather than a perceived barrier to more sales of beef.

A little addressed consideration: some, even on this site, like to bash Canadian beef producers, but should take a good look in their own country. Sadly, not all USA produced beef is of top quality. What happens when our consumers get a package of that proudly labeled beef that is tough, or worse, just not great quality ???? Not likely to be a satisfied consumer, especially given the high cost to quality ratio, is it?

For those who base their thoughts on the beef business (and, YES, even a producer of the smallest 'herd' of cattle IS a part of the 'beef business' in the USA!) on hatred of NCBA, the major goal of our members is for each of us to improve OUR segment of that US beef business BY improving consumer satisfaction. We understand that to achieve that goal, we must constantly improve our own 'act' and make sure our own cattle are the best they can be, then lean on the other segments to have the same goals. Keeping the market place the place to set the bar, rather than a "made in the USA" label which has absolutely NOTHING to do with quality! We obviously need many types of beef to please the wide array of consumer choices, and the Beef Check Off is doing some great work in showing consumers how to choose the best cuts and quality of beef for their specific need, which is helping make more satisfied beef consumers.

Apparently those who tout the labels on apples as some sort of 'holy grail' of quality have not eaten some carrying those labels lately! It takes quite a few disappointments to find one which actually tastes worthy of a label, imo.

mrj
Not trying to be contentious, but apparently checkoff dollars are promoting US beef in the UAE, and some other countries, promoting a quality product. A bit of a head scratcher.

http://www.usmef.org/news-statistics/member-news-archive/u-s-beefs-quality-promoted-to-consumers-in-uae-kuwait-and-oman/

Traveler, I don't see your question as contentious, but am not quite sure why you are bothered by that fact. USMEF has always worked to get our products into foreign countries. Beef Check Off money is used in part to generate more sales of our beef, no matter where. We have little trouble selling some of the beef carcass parts not often chosen by our US consumers in foreign countries, but they also have some consumers who are developing a taste for our top dollar parts of the beef carcass, too. I believe it helps our producers' bottom line to serve those customers, too. One of the goals of the Check Off, and I believe of the best of the packing industry, too, is to focus on the top end of the US beef as the best of the best.

Some of the imported beef has been for the purpose of adding more lean to the excessively fat carcasses we produce. Until we perfect our production to be able to use all we produce as it is, it seems to me we can benefit from importing some beef. Trade does go both ways, and if both parties don't like the deal, it won't work, will it? And, it will be a very rare day when everyone is satisfied with the 'deal' they get and doesn't think 'the other guy' is getting a better deal.

Personally, I believe we need to do more promotion of even the bottom of the quality scale, which STILL must be wholesome and safe, because it all has its place. Modern consumers need to be taught which beef cut is best for the way they want to cook it. Fortunately, Beef Check Off is funding some of that training.I cooked up and put into freezer packages some very tasty, convenient stew beef this week. It was from an old Longhorn Steer, and would have been very tough, had I not cooked it properly, and chances are consumers are pretty disappointed when they get something like that and don't know how it should be cooked. Oddly enough, that steer had some very good sirloin steaks which cooked up nice and tender at medium rare. Our twenty something grand daughters will be thrilled to get some of that cooked stew beef for Christmas, tho they would like it even better if it were canned, that being an almost instant meal base.

I do believe if we spent more of our energy and time to push for higher standards for beef quality, both for imported, and beef we produce here at home, we would be more successful than the belly-aching and criticizing of packers we seem to prefer has been. We surely all have seen some awfully sorry looking cattle along the hiway, going through a sale barn, etc., and consumers can see that stuff, too. Then when they get stuck with a poor quality piece of beef, it makes a pretty poor beef experience for them. No matter that it may be 'safe' to eat, if it isn't right for their cooking method, or up to their expectation, we all suffer when we lose beef eaters to other proteins.

mrj
 
mrj I would be all for a national ID system From the ranch to the consumer. Some think similar to Japan and Korea. Most ranchers I know would welcome that. It would be great for consumer confidence.
 
mrj, I'm not bothered at all by what they're doing overseas to promote US beef, or what any other country may do for that matter. Just a little confused about how they're able to do it, when given arguments to the contrary, being a generic product and all.
 
First, my guess is that few organizations are so scrutinized as is the US Meat Export Federation: starting with the working groups of the various meat products they promote, so doubt they would be doing anything not allowed by the rules/laws they must follow.

I do seem to learn something new every day, and have never heard an argument that beef can't be labeled as product of USA because it is a generic product. It seems reasonable to call 'beef' a generic term in the US since that term alone denotes nothing except that it is meat from bovine critters, I suppose. I've just never heard it put that way and do try to pay attention to anything going on in the beef business, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I have heard talk that some in 'the beef industry' want beef produced in the North American countries to be the standard of quality for the world. I doubt anyone believes that has been achieved, so far as quality of product is concerned, and I do believe most who hold that view realizes we have some distance to go, but what other such 'coalition' has done a better job, to date?

For the record, I believe everyone who is paid out of proceeds originating with cattle, from genetics researchers, to the gal who cleans our barn, to the brokers who put together buyers and sellers, from semen and embryo's to primal cuts to prepared, hot beef (or cold, for that matter) on a dining plate, or wrapped in a tortilla.

mrj
 
I would bet over priced over supplied and a strong US dollar plays the biggest part of it if a nation has x amount of dollars they are going to buy where their money goes the farthest same as a walmart scenario. I know when we buy trailer parts a china made jack is $75 and a USA made jack is $140 start that on every part and in the end the trailer is so over priced it's unsaleable.
 
Mike, are you saying you do not believe US producers benefit when packers sell beef for higher prices, wherever that beef is sold?

I am not so sure that is true. Producers get paid before the beef is sold to the consumer. Have you ever seen a packer send a producer a premium check because that producers beef brought a high price at retail?

Bottom line is the packers pay the least $ they can for beef.

I heard an Ag Economist say at a meeting that the farmer/rancher is the only business entity that sells his products wholesale and buys everything he needs retail.
 
The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, pays the freight both ways. JFK
 
So, how are prices packers pay for fed cattle determined? Is there bidding, bargaining, or just a set price on a given day? Do you know that there are never any premiums paid for higher quality fed cattle? Logically, cattle which have better quality beef are going to bring more money, aren't they? That is, if all people involved in the selling and buying have the information showing the history of the cattle.

Some people seem to be of the opinion that packers, and other people, will cheat everyone they can out of all the money they can, every time they can. That doesn't seem like a very sound business practice that will work over the long haul, does it?

mrj
 
Monopolies can do whatever they choose. The one thing that could prevent that is GIPSA which has become little more than a joke. Monopolies can also buy influence of those who are supposed to enforce those laws. If you have so much confidence in the packers MRJ, fatten some cattle and haul them to the local sale bern and see who shows up to buy them.
 
mrj said:
So, how are prices packers pay for fed cattle determined? Is there bidding, bargaining, or just a set price on a given day? Do you know that there are never any premiums paid for higher quality fed cattle? Logically, cattle which have better quality beef are going to bring more money, aren't they? That is, if all people involved in the selling and buying have the information showing the history of the cattle.

Some people seem to be of the opinion that packers, and other people, will cheat everyone they can out of all the money they can, every time they can. That doesn't seem like a very sound business practice that will work over the long haul, does it?

mrj

Here is what they pay for fat cattle. Period.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lm_ct155.txt
 
Bottom line its supply and demand. I don't know who controls all the imports and exports. We where for a short time a net beef exporter and since the label is going away in june we have turned into a big beef importer Australia and New Zeland have flooded ower maket and we have way to much supply. We are eating more beef in the US over last year but we still have to much supply. All this and retail beef is neer record prices. We have dropped down in price on cattle low enough that imports have slowed and prices here might go up some
We are in line price wise with the rest of the world now. MRJ you need to not listen to the media so much they all have an agenda now days carcases are up 23 pounds and be a lot less this week not the spew the media is telling .
BTW .. mrj what is the NCBA stance about a national ID system producer to consumer?
If you work there maybe you can get this started.
 
Faster horses said:
I doubt mrj pays a lot of attention to media news, but rather has educated herself for years on how the beef/cattle industry works.
She should know then that the packers run the show. Funny lowest board price in 2014 was 12-17, guess what that date has been the lowest in 2015. Notice the limit up on Friday and then a lower numbered COF report. It's a conspiracy.
 

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