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Why the downward slide?
- Thread starter Grandad
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cows101 said:I agree on label US beef in other countrys selling it as a superior product. Then you don' label it in the US because it might not be a superior? Talk about a spin doctor, what a bunch of bull.
I hope you have misunderstood, or maybe I didn't make it clear that the beef I was talking of being promoted by USMEF in foreign countries is top of the line, highest quality. It is probably the top cuts, for the 'white table cloth' restaurants, not generic, across the board 'beef' such as appears in many meat cases in middle of the line grocery stores in the US.
No spin, no bull. I don't know how to do that.
mrj
Somewhere in this thread was mention of "Have you tasted store bought beef?"... My opinion is that is where the opportunity lies. Flavor and texture.
I don't know that you can get that good old fashioned Beef Flavor in the system that has the captive supply. I can tell you from personal experience, the "Middle Man" does earn every penny. If you don't believe it, start doing some of those functions. I say this in that I am making an observation about commodity Beef rather than a criticism.
We continually win taste tests against a lot of "Artisan Growers". People that are focused on branded products. I'm glad I asked a lot of questions early on about Beef as much as cattle.
The last few years it got somewhat easy to be lazy about marketing Beef. When I got my first Tyson check for $2.50 a pound on the rail, I wondered why I would ever work so dang hard selling cuts. The last few months have told me why I work so hard. The last few years have shown me people will pay more than we ever thought for really good Beef.
I even bought some calves from friends speculatively this spring. The idea was if my direct market grew, I'd have the supply. If not, no big deal with the "New Prices". So, yeah, I make mistakes as well. Education is expensive no matter where you get it ;-}
I don't know that you can get that good old fashioned Beef Flavor in the system that has the captive supply. I can tell you from personal experience, the "Middle Man" does earn every penny. If you don't believe it, start doing some of those functions. I say this in that I am making an observation about commodity Beef rather than a criticism.
We continually win taste tests against a lot of "Artisan Growers". People that are focused on branded products. I'm glad I asked a lot of questions early on about Beef as much as cattle.
The last few years it got somewhat easy to be lazy about marketing Beef. When I got my first Tyson check for $2.50 a pound on the rail, I wondered why I would ever work so dang hard selling cuts. The last few months have told me why I work so hard. The last few years have shown me people will pay more than we ever thought for really good Beef.
I even bought some calves from friends speculatively this spring. The idea was if my direct market grew, I'd have the supply. If not, no big deal with the "New Prices". So, yeah, I make mistakes as well. Education is expensive no matter where you get it ;-}
Just to be clear, the report I linked to was talking about retail and consumers. No mention of white table cloth restaurants. The picture at the website appears to be a supermarket.mrj said:cows101 said:I agree on label US beef in other countrys selling it as a superior product. Then you don' label it in the US because it might not be a superior? Talk about a spin doctor, what a bunch of bull.
I hope you have misunderstood, or maybe I didn't make it clear that the beef I was talking of being promoted by USMEF in foreign countries is top of the line, highest quality. It is probably the top cuts, for the 'white table cloth' restaurants, not generic, across the board 'beef' such as appears in many meat cases in middle of the line grocery stores in the US.
No spin, no bull. I don't know how to do that.
mrj
USMEF recently conducted retail promotions in the Middle East designed to build consumer awareness of the quality, value and safety of U.S. beef. Funding support was provided by the Beef Checkoff Program.
The promotions took place at retail food stores in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Kuwait and Oman. Each event featured a USMEF booth supplied with samples of U.S. beef, along with a USMEF representative who explained the many ways to prepare various cuts of U.S. beef. At some locations, a chef provided live cooking demonstrations.
The promotions featured U.S. ribeye, striploin, tenderloin and shank, as well as roast beef, burgers, beef sausages, corned beef and pastrami.
To also help educate consumers about food safety and U.S. beef production practices, bilingual information sheets and cards were given to shoppers visiting the booths.
According to USMEF representatives in the region, customers appreciated the taste and juiciness of U.S. beef, while participating retailers reported a jump in sales of U.S. beef and beef products following the promotions.
"In-store promotions are considered an important marketing tool to help build and sustain the image of U.S. beef products, as well as to demonstrate U.S. beef's premium value to consumers and retailers," said John Brook, USMEF regional director for Europe, Russia and the Middle East, who noted that similar activities are planned to further expand U.S. beef's presence in the region. "These nations are seeing growth in the retail industry, driven by rising purchasing power, steady economic growth and diversification, as well as the ongoing penetration of international retailers."
PPRM, thanks for a thoughtful contribution to the discussion. It's refreshing to read something based on experience and reality rather than 'packers are an evil cartel out to turn cattle producers/feeders into serfs'.
You are well blessed to live in an area where the marketing opportunities can support processing and selling your beef locally'. My guess is there are less than a half dozen small packers within a 100 mile radius of me, and certainly not the customer base. It has probably been over 30 years ago that a local family tried processing their own beef and selling it in an area which included our state capital city, so about the largest population base you could find east of Rapid City. The also delivered it frozen rather like Schwans does now, and I know that they went at least 60 miles from the plant. I believe they also processed beef for other ranchers. That business didn't last a terribly long time, but also don't know if lack of population was the only reason. It had to be a major reason, though. It's doubtful Schwans beef is a top selling product for them, though it is very good. A lot of people do raise their own beef out here, and probably sell some of it. There are just so many more cattle raised in these 'wide open spaces' than our small population can eat. We have a little over 850,000 people and millions of cattle in SD.
I do occasionally purchase beef in stores mostly to see what the quality is. Knowing how to recognize various cuts and quality of beef, AND to cook it properly for that knowledge, makes a huge difference. I can say we have not had a poor eating experience, with exception of my decision to risk using as steak a piece which should have been used as stew meat. And the flavor was ok, but it was tough. The meat was bought from small local stores jn several small towns, Walmart, Family Thrift, and Sams' Club in Rapid City. Some people really like the beef we raise and keep for our own use, which is usually a first calf heifer which failed to raise the calf, butchered at a local state inspected locker plant. Others find it too 'gamey', as it is grass fed on native pastures and processed in late fall when our grass is matured and not lush and green. BTW, I have been told that the state inspection is not required for beef processed for ones' own use. I do NOT like that idea and hope it is not true.
Sometimes we take a chance on using a 'retired roping steer' which may be a Longhorn, or part Mexican roping cattle breed. They usually are five years of age, or older, as we are 'growing out' their horns. We have been pleasantly surprised at the quality, even of steaks. We intended mostly to have hamburger made, but tried some steaks once, and will continue to have some cut knowing I can always cut them up as stew meat, or can it if we don't like it as steak.
The first time we tried that, we had some ten year old Scottish Highlander steers which had very long horns we wanted to save, plus a few we wanted the heads mounted, like a deer. Actually, we have one 'looking' over my shoulder as I sit in my living room writing! The meat inspector at the Triple U Buffalo ranch where we had them processed said the steaks would be fine.......and they were some of the best we have had. They were cut about two inches thick, and I could grill or even pan fry them to medium rare, and they were very good and quite tender, too. I don't recall that we were able to let them age on the hook for very long, if at all. A once in a lifetime experience, that was! Sure do wish we could re-create it, but many of the people involved in the deal are gone, as is that buffalo processing plant.
The point of that memory is that there are such varied ways to get great tasting beef, and there are quite a few different points (not levels, not qualities) of acceptable to top rate, beef eating experiences that I feel it isn't right to try to lump them into such a narrow one that a label stating "USA produced Beef" is going to do us any good at all with consumers.
Those who buy tough meat, or who damage the beef with the wrong cooking method, the quality of beef they purchase carrying that label will feel cheated, and rightly so when that label is being pushed as the end all and be all of advertising our beef.
Our Beef Check Off leaders are doing a great job of teaching consumers how to better choose and to cook beef to suit their desired eating experience, and many grocery stores are helping too, with some in-store information and even cooking demonstrations. Those things do cost money even though many beef producer volunteers help, but the money can only go so far. Congratulations to those state Beef Councils who send some of their money to states where more consumers live!
mrj
You are well blessed to live in an area where the marketing opportunities can support processing and selling your beef locally'. My guess is there are less than a half dozen small packers within a 100 mile radius of me, and certainly not the customer base. It has probably been over 30 years ago that a local family tried processing their own beef and selling it in an area which included our state capital city, so about the largest population base you could find east of Rapid City. The also delivered it frozen rather like Schwans does now, and I know that they went at least 60 miles from the plant. I believe they also processed beef for other ranchers. That business didn't last a terribly long time, but also don't know if lack of population was the only reason. It had to be a major reason, though. It's doubtful Schwans beef is a top selling product for them, though it is very good. A lot of people do raise their own beef out here, and probably sell some of it. There are just so many more cattle raised in these 'wide open spaces' than our small population can eat. We have a little over 850,000 people and millions of cattle in SD.
I do occasionally purchase beef in stores mostly to see what the quality is. Knowing how to recognize various cuts and quality of beef, AND to cook it properly for that knowledge, makes a huge difference. I can say we have not had a poor eating experience, with exception of my decision to risk using as steak a piece which should have been used as stew meat. And the flavor was ok, but it was tough. The meat was bought from small local stores jn several small towns, Walmart, Family Thrift, and Sams' Club in Rapid City. Some people really like the beef we raise and keep for our own use, which is usually a first calf heifer which failed to raise the calf, butchered at a local state inspected locker plant. Others find it too 'gamey', as it is grass fed on native pastures and processed in late fall when our grass is matured and not lush and green. BTW, I have been told that the state inspection is not required for beef processed for ones' own use. I do NOT like that idea and hope it is not true.
Sometimes we take a chance on using a 'retired roping steer' which may be a Longhorn, or part Mexican roping cattle breed. They usually are five years of age, or older, as we are 'growing out' their horns. We have been pleasantly surprised at the quality, even of steaks. We intended mostly to have hamburger made, but tried some steaks once, and will continue to have some cut knowing I can always cut them up as stew meat, or can it if we don't like it as steak.
The first time we tried that, we had some ten year old Scottish Highlander steers which had very long horns we wanted to save, plus a few we wanted the heads mounted, like a deer. Actually, we have one 'looking' over my shoulder as I sit in my living room writing! The meat inspector at the Triple U Buffalo ranch where we had them processed said the steaks would be fine.......and they were some of the best we have had. They were cut about two inches thick, and I could grill or even pan fry them to medium rare, and they were very good and quite tender, too. I don't recall that we were able to let them age on the hook for very long, if at all. A once in a lifetime experience, that was! Sure do wish we could re-create it, but many of the people involved in the deal are gone, as is that buffalo processing plant.
The point of that memory is that there are such varied ways to get great tasting beef, and there are quite a few different points (not levels, not qualities) of acceptable to top rate, beef eating experiences that I feel it isn't right to try to lump them into such a narrow one that a label stating "USA produced Beef" is going to do us any good at all with consumers.
Those who buy tough meat, or who damage the beef with the wrong cooking method, the quality of beef they purchase carrying that label will feel cheated, and rightly so when that label is being pushed as the end all and be all of advertising our beef.
Our Beef Check Off leaders are doing a great job of teaching consumers how to better choose and to cook beef to suit their desired eating experience, and many grocery stores are helping too, with some in-store information and even cooking demonstrations. Those things do cost money even though many beef producer volunteers help, but the money can only go so far. Congratulations to those state Beef Councils who send some of their money to states where more consumers live!
mrj
As a US producer your checkoff dollars are also used to promote every pound of imported beef. Now the consumer won't even be able to make even the most basic distinction of what country the product they are buying is from. If you are marketing your own beef you pay a tax to fund your competition.
Not only that, all beef that is imported will have a US label put on it.Angus 62 said:As a US producer your checkoff dollars are also used to promote every pound of imported beef. Now the consumer won't even be able to make even the most basic distinction of what country the product they are buying is from. If you are marketing your own beef you pay a tax to fund your competition.
MRJ you never said wether or not the NCBA is for a national id syestem and what they say about Australia and the 57 other nations with MCOOL should we force them to get rid of it? I meen after all what is good for the goose is good for the gander
Angus 62 said:As a US producer your checkoff dollars are also used to promote every pound of imported beef. Now the consumer won't even be able to make even the most basic distinction of what country the product they are buying is from. If you are marketing your own beef you pay a tax to fund your competition.
You seem very sure of your point, but do you realize that there the US Beef Check Off also is paid BY THE IMPORTERS on "every pound" of imported beef? It is paid on some sort of 'pounds to equal a USA carcass' basis, If memory is correct on that point.
I know some of you like to call the Beef Check Off a tax. I consider it an investment in the work for which I have neither time nor expertise to do to improve the cattle business. From a bit of advertising, to meeting with consumers to learn what they want to know about beef to help them see the benefits to their family from eating it, to how to choose best cuts for their families and how to cook it properly, to safety issues, and more! Those cattle producers who can take time to VOLUNTEER to serve on the various beef councils and boards and work directly with consumers have my grateful thanks. I did that when I was younger, and may still do a bit as time and energy allow, so understand and greatly appreciate the effort they are making for the rest of cattle producers.
Another point, not every beef producer in the USA pays the Beef Check Off, as some who process and sell direct to consumers claim they get no benefit, therefore do not pay it. Of course, that isn't legal, but apparently some get away with it, most likely due to not enough dollars to spend a lot of them on finding small abuses of the collections. In fact, the things the check off money can be spent for are strictly defined in the law, down to the percentages for each allowed function.
You might want to check the facts on claims that imported beef carries the 'made in the USA' label. I believe a major reason for fighting the current labeling law was that it costs a lot to separate imported beef to put the REQUIRED country of origin label on it. That also caused the hamburger or other 'mixed' meats to carry the "product of USA, Mexico, or Can." label, or something similar. I may not have the wording exact, but close.
Cows 101, I believe NCBA was for a national ID for cattle, for health reasons at the least. At any rate, I favor such a rule, if it is done right.
Are the rules in the laws of those other nations' mcool type laws the same as in the USA? If so, where is the problem? Wasn't the problem with the US mcool that we did not follow the international rules for such labels, rather than it being somehow illegal to label it as USA produced? Obviously, since there are about 130 'labeled' brands of beef currently sold in the USA, identifiable as to where it comes from, that IS legal. A problem I have with 'our' Mcool is if a producer wants an origin label on beef, why does he DEMAND that his own ranch NOT be identified as the origin, as they did with Mcool???? Since those current private labels have been around for some time, what's the hang up for Mcool promoters?
The only 'benefit' to promoters of Mcool in contrast to the existing private labels we already have, is that government bears the costs of Mcool, through USDA, passes it along to Packers, so the costs are borne by all, including producers paying their own costs for their private labels, consumers buying the product, and surely we all understand anything which government does 'for' us comes at a higher price than with private enterprise!
mrj
mrj The point with privet label is that it don't work because imported beef has a US label!!! Now that is why my senators wanted a volintary label that would of stopped them from labeling imported beef as US. That was the hope with a volintary label it would of help the private label and retailers would of forced the big three packers to label some US beef volintarily. You tell me how good is a privat label that says product of the US when imported beef right beside it say USDA BEEF?
M ost ranchers I know would like there name on beef in the meat case. I beleive the NCBA would not want my name or any ranchers name to go all the way to the consumer.
M ost ranchers I know would like there name on beef in the meat case. I beleive the NCBA would not want my name or any ranchers name to go all the way to the consumer.
So why doesn't the guy selling his own beef or a small private label have access to checkoff money? It is because NCBA has a strangle hold on it. How much money has been wasted on Sam Elliot mumbling about beef (from any where) being for dinner. US producers paid for it, why not say American Beef?
Faster horses
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I don't know all the ins and outs of what all has been brought up here, but I do know one thing. The Beef Check-off has helped.
I worked on helping to get it implemented many years ago. At that time, all the women's magazines BASHED beef. They targeted the housewife with this mistaken information. They could do that because there was no loss of revenue. After the Check-off and the Beef Council started running ads in Women's magazines, the beef bashing STOPPED because there was revenue at stake. I wish that isn't how it was, but that is the truth. I remember them running articles on Hollywood actors that wouldn't eat beef and how bad it was for you. That ceased...so whether you want to admit it or not the Check-off has not been a waste of your $1/head. At that time, it was said, if we don't care to raise awareness of beef, who does????
I worked on helping to get it implemented many years ago. At that time, all the women's magazines BASHED beef. They targeted the housewife with this mistaken information. They could do that because there was no loss of revenue. After the Check-off and the Beef Council started running ads in Women's magazines, the beef bashing STOPPED because there was revenue at stake. I wish that isn't how it was, but that is the truth. I remember them running articles on Hollywood actors that wouldn't eat beef and how bad it was for you. That ceased...so whether you want to admit it or not the Check-off has not been a waste of your $1/head. At that time, it was said, if we don't care to raise awareness of beef, who does????
cows101 said:mrj The point with privet label is that it don't work because imported beef has a US label!!! Now that is why my senators wanted a volintary label that would of stopped them from labeling imported beef as US. That was the hope with a volintary label it would of help the private label and retailers would of forced the big three packers to label some US beef volintarily. You tell me how good is a privat label that says product of the US when imported beef right beside it say USDA BEEF?
M ost ranchers I know would like there name on beef in the meat case. I beleive the NCBA would not want my name or any ranchers name to go all the way to the consumer.
cows101, WHERE did you get the idea that the label stating "USDA BEEF" is to identify that product as produced in the USA? the USDA BEEF label, if it even exists in that form, is ONLY to show that it has been INSPECTED by USDA to assure it is safe, and that it is beef!
I will look next time I'm in a store which sells meat, but I believe the label to show country of origin is something like "product of USA", or if it is hamburger from mixed locations: "product of USA, Canada, and/or Mexico".
Sometimes consumers do mistake the USDA Inspected label for country of origin, but there has been considerable time and money, and I believe some of that was Beef Check off money, to inform consumers as to what each label means.
There really is no excuse for a beef producer like yourself to perpetuate that misinformation! I'm sorry to be so blunt, but over the past several years there have been reams of paper used to inform people of the facts of labeling of beef!
mrj
cows101 said:mrj The point with privet label is that it don't work because imported beef has a US label!!! Now that is why my senators wanted a volintary label that would of stopped them from labeling imported beef as US. That was the hope with a volintary label it would of help the private label and retailers would of forced the big three packers to label some US beef volintarily. You tell me how good is a privat label that says product of the US when imported beef right beside it say USDA BEEF?
M ost ranchers I know would like there name on beef in the meat case. I beleive the NCBA would not want my name or any ranchers name to go all the way to the consumer.
cows101, WHERE did you get the idea that the label stating "USDA BEEF" is to identify that product as produced in the USA? the USDA BEEF label, if it even exists in that form, is ONLY to show that it has been INSPECTED by USDA to assure it is safe, and that it is beef!
I will look next time I'm in a store which sells meat, but I believe the label to show country of origin is something like "product of USA", or if it is hamburger from mixed locations: "product of USA, Canada, and/or Mexico".
Sometimes consumers do mistake the USDA Inspected label for country of origin, but there has been considerable time and money, and I believe some of that was Beef Check off money, to inform consumers as to what each label means.
There really is no excuse for a beef producer like yourself to perpetuate that misinformation! I'm sorry to be so blunt, but over the past several years there have been reams of paper used to inform people of the facts of labeling of beef!
mrj
Angus 62 said:So why doesn't the guy selling his own beef or a small private label have access to checkoff money? It is because NCBA has a strangle hold on it. How much money has been wasted on Sam Elliot mumbling about beef (from any where) being for dinner. US producers paid for it, why not say American Beef?
I'm sorry you are getting information from a source so lacking in credibility. First, there are rules in the law creating the checkoff stating how they can be spent. Surely it would make others unhappy if their checkoff dollars were being spent on one particular producers product, wouldn't it? Or would you cheer your neighbor on if he got checkoff dollars to advertise his beef, and there wasn't enough left for you to do the same?
NCBA does NOT control the Beef Check Off. The state Beef Councils, and the Cattlemens' Beef Board control it. Their members come from virtually ALL cattle organizations. The Federation of State Beef Councils are members from the various state Beef Councils who control check off money belonging to the states which those state beef Councils wish to spend at the national rather than the state level. Those are mostly states with lots of cattle compared to population of consumers.
FACT: NCBA does contract work for the CBB and those contracts cover ONLY actual costs of the work done to fill the contract. NO money is paid to NCBA until the work is finished. That doesn't in any way fit your "strangle hold" designation, by any stretch of the imagination.
mrj
So far as Sam Elliot promoting beef, that is only an opinion. Consumers seemed to like him. He has a good voice for it. And he is a very popular actor. Personally, I'm not high on having celebrities, as the public is so fickle in their adoration of celebrities. Here today, gone tomorrow, for most of them. But there is no denying we got value for the dollars with Elliot during the time he filled that spot.
mrj
Could be mrj From what I thought there was a lot of confusion with the USDA stamp. I don't see any misinformation. But thats OK for you being blunt. I think we both feel strongly about this and I respect you for that.
Beef consumption is down a lot since the check off started maybe its not working?
Beef consumption is down a lot since the check off started maybe its not working?
cows101 said:Could be mrj From what I thought there was a lot of confusion with the USDA stamp. I don't see any misinformation. But thats OK for you being blunt. I think we both feel strongly about this and I respect you for that.
Beef consumption is down a lot since the check off started maybe its not working?
Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I feel strongly, and it bothers me a great deal when incorrect information is put out, even more so when I make an error. I try to be accurate, but do get in a hurry too often and memory isn't always accurate over the long haul I've been involved in Beef Check Off issues (from the 'voluntary' check off days in the late 1950's).
Do you suppose the economy has something to do with consumption being down???? I'd say it would be worse if not for the work of the check off. There are so many entities pushing a total anti-meat diet, and too many people spewing the fear of food, or making up 'evil corporate food manipulation' strategies that it seems to me a near miracle beef prices have held up so well for so long. The general 'doom and gloom' and justifiably worrisome political and financial climate in the nation and world do their share of harm to the cattle/beef business, too, imo.
mrj
I agree the more adds promoting beef the better. I don't mind giving my 2 dollars to promote beef.
Maybe I am wrong on the label I am just afraid of the Brazilian beef coming here. Is going to make it not to profitable to raise calves Its a hard line Don't want to hurt the Canadian fellas but don't want to get run over by Brazil. There is so many cattle down there we are small in comparison. Time will tell I am done here thanks mrj for talking
Maybe I am wrong on the label I am just afraid of the Brazilian beef coming here. Is going to make it not to profitable to raise calves Its a hard line Don't want to hurt the Canadian fellas but don't want to get run over by Brazil. There is so many cattle down there we are small in comparison. Time will tell I am done here thanks mrj for talking
Angus 62, that problem with confusion over meaning of USDA labels has been going on for a very long time, and maybe those able to do something about it missed the fact. Too many people did believe it meant "product of USA" instead of meaning "inspected by" USDA. I believe there has been considerable work with consumer groups to explain what the labels mean, and hopefully that will continue. It should be funded by USDA, but suppose some check off money is involved, too. One problem is that it costs so much to change labeling when government agencies are involved, and rules for the labels are confusing, too, just as most govt. involvement is!
mrj
mrj
Mike
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Sept 1, 2015 - Cattle feeders were losing $360 per head average while at the exact same time packers were profiting $83 per head.
What's wrong with this picture?
What's wrong with this picture?
