Ask Van Dyke

[Mike]

Bill:IF it isn't.........posting here is nothing more than a cheap inexpensive SDSGA/R-Calf publcity stunt or Macon trying to keep posters interested and the hits up to sell numbers to his sponsors and advertisers.

Getting desparate? I'd say that's a little far fetched.

You would be better served by pressing the CFIA to find the problem in Alberta than taking cheap shots like this...........

 

[Anonymous]

whatever this is the way it's being done makes r-calf and its supporters look desperate. if they have something they should pursue it in a serious, credible way and build a case. if they can't build a case they should drop it because it will only get sillier. vandykes are going to have to show they can trace where their feeders came from in order to substantiate their claims. until then they have nothing.

don- There is where we disagree.. We have a USDA that has shown they not only are not doing a good job of tracking or monitoring these animals- but they don't actually have any system set up for monitoring the imported animals... If they did this wouldn't have happened even if it occurred the way they claim.....And it wouldn't take 2 months to try and track down 7 little numbers....

And I think this is the major concern of all US cattlemen-- USDA blew smoke at us on their supposed big monitoring program-but have nothing...Appears like another government Fib....And now they want to open the border to many more cattle to go everywhere in the country- and they still have nothing that they can look at that even tells them what came across the border...

Even NCBA is concerned--In talking with a member who just returned from the convention- he said that is what developed NCBA's "wishy washy" border stand...We kind of support it- but we don't support it...They support opening it but don't think it should be opened unless USDA includes permanent hot iron brand ID and until USDA develops and implements a workable system for monitoring these imported cattle.....

 

[Sandhusker]

R-CALF looks desperate? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You Canadians tell us about the sealed trucks and all the matching paperwork at the border, etc.... With that in mind, you've got two stories here, the "official" or Van Dykes. The Van Dykes say that Swift initially told them they could account for all of their Canadian cattle. Considering what you Canucks have said about the border, that would make sense. With all hassle and paperwork, they should be able to account for them very easily. HOWEVER, the "official" story is that they couldn't figure it out and had to call in the USDA.

The "official' story also is that, in spite of all this paperwork on both sides of the border, Gestapo-esqe border agents, etc.. it took the USDA two months to figure it out themselves! You've got these two red flags that don't make any sense at all, but they are ignored in favor of a R-CALF covert operation! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even if you buy into the official story, which as more holes in it than 10 lbs. of Swiss cheese, and believe that R-CALF was just trying to make the USDA look bad to hamper the border opening, THEY STILL LOOK BAD! It's either "Calves are somehow coming accross the border illegally" or "Swift isn't following the current rules and it takes the USDA two months to track cattle that have been here less than 24 hours" Heck, the official story does more damage than what R-CALF is being accused of! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Now tell me again, WHO is desperate here? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Bill]

Desperate, hardly and no offense intended towards Macon with my earlier comment or this one. I am sure if you ask him this site is a business and not some sort of a public service to the world as some of you seem to think. If you don't think hype, paraoia or specultation sells things you haven't been anywhere near a supermarket checkout line or flipped on Fox or CNN. Do you think hits went up on this site after the announcement of the Alberta Bull? People flock to controversy and you if you don't think that sells you are way out of touch with reality.

Like I said if what VanDyke has any amount of truth to it why is it reserved for some ranchers chat site and not in the mainstream after supposed months to get it there.

 

[Sandhusker]

Desperate, hardly and no offense intended towards Macon with my earlier comment or this one. I am sure if you ask him this site is a business and not some sort of a public service to the world as some of you seem to think. If you don't think hype, paraoia or specultation sells things you haven't been anywhere near a supermarket checkout line or flipped on Fox or CNN. Do you think hits went up on this site after the announcement of the Alberta Bull? People flock to controversy and you if you don't think that sells you are way out of touch with reality.

Like I said if what VanDyke has any amount of truth to it why is it reserved for some ranchers chat site and not in the mainstream after supposed months to get it there.

It was in the media, Bill

 

[Bill]

You're wrong again, Bill. ocm said they were in the background and OT and simply pointed out that they had issue no releases. Mr. Van Dyke confirms this.

Here is your big chance Sandhusker. ARE THEY INVOLVED OR NOT? YES or NO?

Just wanted to make sure you didn't conveniently miss this Sandhusker.

 

[mwj]

Jan did those cattle have any brands on them?

What sale barn did they come thru? Was it in a brand inspection area?

Did you have them Brand inspected to travel out of state?

Did you have invoices for those cattle with any description on it?

There were a few of the cattle that had brands on them but we never noticed a CN brand on the hip. East River South Dakota is not in a brand inspection part of the state so our cattle are not required to be brand inspected, however we do have our own registered brand. In a normal year we brand all of our cattle that go to pasture so that we can identify them that fall. 2006 was an abnormal year because our lots were extremely muddy and it was a battle to get them through a chute. Many of our cattle never got branded. Looking back that was a big mistake. As for the cattle invoices we have all of the sale barn copies of those. There are no descriptions on them but the sale barn has given us the names of the producers that sold the cattle that we purchased.

You better check those invoices from ther salebarn again because SD codified law says there has to be a description on them :roll: If you do not have your own states laws they are easy to find with an online search. How many times were cattle bought to go in this feedlot group. Did you raise any of the feeders or do you have a cow calf operation also?

I thought this thread was to answer the questions about the 7 head of cattle :roll: Is it just a stunt to keep stirring the pot :shock: Does anyone care to answer legitamate questions that are being asked???????

 

[Van Dyke]

Did you know that it was actuallly 8 head of cattle that were condemned and went to the landfill. On our photos that were provided by Swift of the 43 cattle that were supposed to be on our load 8 head had Canadian ear tags that you can visibly see and one of those eight had an electronic tag. When we received our first check from Swift they had paid us for all but 7 head. That is where the mix-up began between some reports. Initially Swift had condemned 8 when the first check came, but we were paid for 36 head. That means we had a loss of only 7 cattle. Don't ask me how, or why Swift paid us for 1 Canadian fat that went to the landfill, but they did. We were happy just to get paid for part of the load. The 7 head that we never got paid for is where the whole battle began.

 

[Sandhusker]

You're wrong again, Bill. ocm said they were in the background and OT and simply pointed out that they had issue no releases. Mr. Van Dyke confirms this.

Here is your big chance Sandhusker. ARE THEY INVOLVED OR NOT? YES or NO?

Just wanted to make sure you didn't conveniently miss this Sandhusker.

ocm said they were in the back ground. Mr. Van Dyke confirms this when he says they were helping them, and you need to ask if they were involved or not? What is the confusing issue for you?

 

[TimH]

You feed about 300 to 350 head a year. By the end of that time with that number, you might well have some of them named, or at least be highly recognizable to you by sight.

And what do you specifically remember about the eartags?

Yes, indeed we do end up naming a few of them. These particular cattle were fed on grass all summer long by towing a wagon and scooping ground corn to them. Call us old fashioned but that is the way we do it and have been doing it for as long as I remember and probably for as long as my father Jan remembers. We remember specifically some unique characteristics. One tag had the CA emblem with the bar code below it but at the bottom there was empty space to write and on the tag it had HORN spelled out in marker. That is pretty easy to remember and especially when we received pictures of the tags from Swift. That tag was also on a polled animal Another tag that we remember is the one with the ANGUS the barcode. My father remembers that one the best because he was working on the water tank and had several animals face to face with him wanting water and that particular animal tried to lick him. Call us old fashioned but maybe that why somebody thinks they can pull one over on us. I can post the pics if you tell me how.

Do you remember anything else about these particular 2 animals, such as color,markings,brands, were they steers or heifers, frozen ears ,etc.???
Can you track at least these 2 head back to the salebarn where and when you bought them?? How about the others?
Do you remember them in particular being loaded on the truck and sent to Swift??
Also was it 7 or 8 head? I've seen both in different news reports.

 

[Econ101]

A little security camera could have solved this whole thing.

Expand on your camera ideal. Where did you want cameras at and do you think it would be of high enough quality to determine Canadian cattle?

If the cattle were from the packer, you would have been able to see them being transferred in their pens with a camera and you could tell if they were put in the wrong pen. I did not mean to imply that the cattle could be identified as being Canadian with a brand with these cameras.

If it was shown that the cattle came from your lot or unloading through this film, the question of the USDA not keeping out cattle from domestic markets is the issue.

In any case, as a cattle buyer at a domestic auction in the U.S., I don't think the small buyer should be on the hook as you were.

Non payment for cattle after being delivered falls under GIPSA but they are absolutely worthless when it comes to investigations and finding of facts despite the Congressional testimony by JoAnn Waterfield of a rapid response team.

I am sorry it took so long for you to get your money and so much hassle. It shows that our regulatory agencies who are supposed to provide regulation of the packers is inefficient or non existent. You should not have to win a popularity contest through the media to resolve these issues as you have had to do. It makes ranchers practically do the same as run for office just to get justice from big packers and from our regulatory agencies. When justice is this inefficient and costly, it is not as available to everyone as it should be, but only to the most vocal who have to play the media and embarrassment card.

You should have had answers within 3 days to many of the questions that are out there. It shows our government's incompetence when it comes to individuals and that the power rests with the packers in these matters.

I think you should have been compensated for your cattle and all the hours you and others spent on resolving these issues if not done in the first 7 days. This money should come out of the retirement program of the regulatory agencies who should have been more effective. If that were the case, I doubt these issues would even come up.

 

[mwj]

There were a few of the cattle that had brands on them but we never noticed a CN brand on the hip. East River South Dakota is not in a brand inspection part of the state so our cattle are not required to be brand inspected, however we do have our own registered brand. In a normal year we brand all of our cattle that go to pasture so that we can identify them that fall. 2006 was an abnormal year because our lots were extremely muddy and it was a battle to get them through a chute. Many of our cattle never got branded. Looking back that was a big mistake. As for the cattle invoices we have all of the sale barn copies of those. There are no descriptions on them but the sale barn has given us the names of the producers that sold the cattle that we purchased.

You better check those invoices from ther salebarn again because SD codified law says there has to be a description on them :roll: If you do not have your own states laws they are easy to find with an online search. How many times were cattle bought to go in this feedlot group. Did you raise any of the feeders or do you have a cow calf operation also?

I thought this thread was to answer the questions about the 7 head of cattle :roll: Is it just a stunt to keep stirring the pot :shock: Does anyone care to answer legitamate questions that are being asked???????

Vandyke do you care to answer any questions or are you just here to dance :???: Are you aware that the law in your state says the sale barn should have a description of the calves you bought? If you have a loss by theft do you have any means of description for your insurance agent?

 

[Tam]

Big Red Flag here Sandhusker

Mr Van Dyke gets R-CALF, SDSGA and media involved and the media reports this

According to a press release from the Stockgrowers Association, the man purchased the cattle at an auction barn in South Dakota and sold them to a slaughter plant in Nebraska. That's when the origin of the cattle became an issue. The packers would not pay him for seven head of cattle because, they said, the cattle were from Canada. Seven head of the 87 sold to the packer had Canadian ear tags.

Every media report says the same thing it was 7 head the plant refused to pay for, to the value of about $11,000.
Now we have Son of Van Dyke himself coming on ranchers and claiming this

They said that all of their expected Canadian cattle were accounted for and that they had found some unaccounted cattle on our load. Swift then told us that all 43 cattle on the load were subject to being condemned. That is a real hit thinking that you lost almost $50,000. They told us that all the carcasses were pulled from the line and were hanging in a seperate cooler until they could account for all of the cattle. A few days later we had an USDA inspector at our doorstep investingating the case.

Which is the truth? :shock:

then we have this!!!

We are in contact with R-CALF it seems on a daily basis. We are constantly giving them updates on the case and what is going on in the media. R-CALF itself has not made or given any press releases that I am aware of about this subject. When we contacted them though, they began questioning the USDA officials and made higher contacts than we would have accomplished ourselves. It takes quite a while when you start at the bottom and go up but when you go straight to the top things happen fast going down in the chain of command. The South Dakota Stockgrowers are the ones that had the press releases and are the most outspoken.

Gee I thought we were told that R-CALF was staying out of this and letting SDSGA handle it. And the unnamed R-CALF officials mentioned in the press releases were just a few interested R-CALF members but nobody "OFFICIAL" Now it's they were contacted on a daily bases they contacted the USDA and it was discussed at the convention. Tell us Van Dyke and ocm what else did R-CALF do from the "sidelines". Act as CHEERLEADERS to push the story along. Since it broke to the media we have go from 7 head worth $11,000 to 43 head worth $50,000 what's next? :?

 

[Anonymous]

You better check those invoices from ther salebarn again because SD codified law says there has to be a description on them :roll: If you do not have your own states laws they are easy to find with an online search. How many times were cattle bought to go in this feedlot group. Did you raise any of the feeders or do you have a cow calf operation also?

I thought this thread was to answer the questions about the 7 head of cattle :roll: Is it just a stunt to keep stirring the pot :shock: Does anyone care to answer legitamate questions that are being asked???????

Vandyke do you care to answer any questions or are you just here to dance :???: Are you aware that the law in your state says the sale barn should have a description of the calves you bought? If you have a loss by theft do you have any means of description for your insurance agent?

mwj- How many ways can you describe a black calf? Or a red one?

If you had ever actually seen stockyard paperwork -- you'd know that it says 44 blk str clves-- or 5 blk/bldy hfr clves... Or 22 blk stm/cws....Whatever...But it doesn't describe the mole on the left cheek or the white spots on the underbelly or the eartags......

 

[Sandhusker]

Tam, "Gee I thought we were told that R-CALF was staying out of this "

Gee, you thought wrong.
Gee, have you ever seen the media get something wrong?
Gee, we seem to have gotten off track here. Mr. Van Dyke claims one thing, the USDA claims another and everybody wants to talk about what R-CALF did and didn't do. :roll: Why don't we stick to the issue which is the discrepancies between stories here? Why don't we all look at the evidence surrounding the issue and see which story makes the most sense? Van Dykes seem pretty adamant with their story, the USDA the same. One of them is full of crap and needs to account for it.

 

[mwj]

OT clean your glasses the man said NO DESCRIPTION is there some part of those words you do not understand. I guess I had not thought about warts in a basic description before so I would guess that switch length would not be there :roll: Is it a Clinton thing that you want to discuss the meaning of no?

 

[mwj]

Tam, "Gee I thought we were told that R-CALF was staying out of this "

Gee, you thought wrong.
Gee, have you ever seen the media get something wrong?
Gee, we seem to have gotten off track here. Mr. Van Dyke claims one thing, the USDA claims another and everybody wants to talk about what R-CALF did and didn't do. :roll: Why don't we stick to the issue which is the discrepancies between stories here? Why don't we all look at the evidence surrounding the issue and see which story makes the most sense? Van Dykes seem pretty adamant with their story, the USDA the same. One of them is full of crap and needs to account for it.

Vandyke does not want to answer questions on the topic and OT has started filling in for him. I thought the person was here to clear things up from his side but that does not seem to be happening :roll:

 

[Van Dyke]

Jan did those cattle have any brands on them?

What sale barn did they come thru? Was it in a brand inspection area?

Did you have them Brand inspected to travel out of state?

Did you have invoices for those cattle with any description on it?

There were a few of the cattle that had brands on them but we never noticed a CN brand on the hip. East River South Dakota is not in a brand inspection part of the state so our cattle are not required to be brand inspected, however we do have our own registered brand. In a normal year we brand all of our cattle that go to pasture so that we can identify them that fall. 2006 was an abnormal year because our lots were extremely muddy and it was a battle to get them through a chute. Many of our cattle never got branded. Looking back that was a big mistake. As for the cattle invoices we have all of the sale barn copies of those. There are no descriptions on them but the sale barn has given us the names of the producers that sold the cattle that we purchased.

You better check those invoices from ther salebarn again because SD codified law says there has to be a description on them :roll: If you do not have your own states laws they are easy to find with an online search. How many times were cattle bought to go in this feedlot group. Did you raise any of the feeders or do you have a cow calf operation also?

On the sale barn invoices they give a very brief description of the cattle that includes the sex, and color. (An example of this is BLK-STR or CHAR-HEF) Other than that they give the sellers id number, pen number, the number purchased, ave weight, total weight, $ per head and $ per CWT.

There were 11 purchases made to make up the 93 head that were fed in the lot. All of which came from the same South Dakota sale barn.

We do not have a cow-calf operation, and the only time we may raise a baby calf is when there is an oops and one of the heifers that we purchased was bred. Otherwise all of our cattle are purchased for the purpose of finishing.

 

[Sandhusker]

Has the USDA shown you folks any of their "proof" of where the cattle came from, when and where they crossed, etc...?

 

[Van Dyke]

I would like to say READ THE WORDS as they are, don't fabricate something different from what you are reading. Read and reread the posts to make sure you comprehend before typing something. This is part of the reason why stuff gets blown out of proportion. Too many times when a debate isn't going your way, emotion gets in the way. If anybody should show emotion over this whole story shouldn't it be me? None of you were harmed or stood loss. I WAS!!!! I was just trying to clear up some of the questions that were being asked because some of the stuff wasn't in media reports, but I you are going to attack me then I will quit posting.