Ben, the master plan

[Ben Roberts]

Haymaker, I have seen many many boxes of Canadian beef, that were shipped into this country, and not one of them has not been labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA. How do you see that they are afraid to identify their product, so we will do it for them?


Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Ben Roberts]

If a mexican or canadians beef is slaughterered in the US the animal is a product of that country but the process of taking the animal apart and selling it changes the animal into a consumable produced in the US ergo a product of the US.

That is exactly what USA cattle producers want changed with MCOOL!!!!!

As for the COOL debate it comes down to this being a non-tariff trade restricting barrier.

Only if you think Canadian beef labeled as "Canadian beef" in USA stores will restrict it from selling.

I don't end up reading much on the Bull Session proper anymore, so forgive me if I haven't kept up. I can see why some of the people that post here might think COOL would be a help. (I personally do not think it will.) But Robert Mac, you have a niche market of "pasture to plate" branded product that is going over well with the people you sell it to. If COOL is as wonderful as some people think, why would you of all people, want to jeopardize the "competitive edge" that your personal product already has going. Your product will slip to just being commodity beef and be no better than anyone else's if this COOL is so great.

This has been my feeling all along. I am all for voluntary COOL, on branded beef that has fulfilled certain requirements. Commoditiy beef is commodity beef. If all beef produced in the USA is labeled as such, it will still just be commodity USA beef, with no taste or quality guarantees. It will, however, cost producers more to produce because of labeling requirements. As far as producers realizing more money from doing this, it isn't going to happen. More expense, with no extra income, equals less profit. That is why I am against mandatory COOL.

Soapweed, you are forgiven, and we agree on this issue. You haven't missed anything in your absence though. Same old stuff just a different day.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[QUESTION]

Algoma supplies the majority of the steel that is USED to make ford cars and trucks in the US. SO according to COOL shouldn't ford peel the stickers off and reprint product of the Canada. This is the crux of the problem if the raw product comes from another country and is processed in the US what product label should go on it. Eveyone has their own opinion but in mine if a calf is bought in canada then raised in the US and slaughtered in the US. That is US beef as canadians only helped it hit the ground. that is the problem here there is too broad a grey area. And groups like r-calf want born and bred to be labeled US when in actuality the steer is a product of canada but the processed product like steak is a product of the US. The debate is all moot anyways as the decision has been made. The only decision now is how to find a way to prove this a trade distorting action and take it to the WTO so the rest of the world can figure out a way to enact sanctions that will further cripple the US economy. After all most economists are calling for a recession in the US.

 

[RobertMac]

There is no need to closely inspect 95 white marbles to clearly see that only 5 are black! Common sense ain't too common!!!

What you're advocating RM is that imported beef be exposed to additional expense (labelling, tracking) while US beef is spared that expense. This is an illegal non-tariff trade barrier, as an importing country cannot held to more stringent rules than it applies to its own production. The US is a member of the WTO. This was a voluntary membership, and by extension, means that the US accepted, and indeed had input on, those rules of trade.

Rod

No, Rod, actually,all I'm advocating is the elimination of a regulation...the J-List. Doing so would require ALL PRODUCTS entering the USA to be marked for country of origin AND that information being passed on to the USA consumer. Your beef (boxed and live) comes into the USA marked as Canadian now...we just want the packers to tell the USA consumer that when they buy your beef, it is Canadian beef. You can thank us later!

 

[Soapweed]

Most of the beef in the US is commodity beef. What are you going to do when Tyson, Cargill, etal can buy South American commodity beef instead of having to buy yours?

The packers already have been doing this, they are doing it now, and they will continue to do so in the future. This is a moot point. The real point is why do we as USA producers want to spend more money to "identify" our commodity beef, which will then still just be commodity beef. It will be that much more expensive for us to produce, but will still not have any justification to bring in more money when we sell it. The average consumer is more worried about their pocketbook than they are where a beef product comes from. They will not spend any more money for commodity beef that has a USA label than they will for plain old unlabeled commodity beef. In essence, it will just give the imported beef that much more of a competitive edge over us than they have already.

The consumers that do care about buying a premium product will spend extra money to buy branded verified beef such as RobertMac has available. This is the way that it should be.

 

[RobertMac]

Soapweed, how about identifying it because it's the right thing to do?

I personally want to know every food product that comes from China so I can avoid it. I know they don't have a food safety inspection system that is "USDA equivalent". I know many countries use chemicals to produce food that are banned in the USA...I want to have the choice NOT to eat their food.

On the economic side, there are a few corporations that want to dominate the world food trade. What will help them do this is to have "free trade" with no restriction to ship food into and out of any country they wish. Then they can manipulate supply of product to their benefit...such as increasing the supply of beef in the USA until the price of raw product, our cattle, goes to world market prices. With MCOOL, they may still be able to do this, but at least the USA consumer won't be ignorant of the facts and we will have the chance to get them to buy our product, beef!

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

Soapweed, how about identifying it because it's the right thing to do?

I personally want to know every food product that comes from China so I can avoid it. I know they don't have a food safety inspection system that is "USDA equivalent". . . . .

"USDA equivalent", you say? :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

One BSE case, O.K., make that two BSE cases, since Fong outted the Texas cow, no, wait, make that three BSE cases to which we will admit. BUT, that is all we will find in the U.S. cow herd because we have this thing under control!! Well, under cover, anyway!!! Or cover-up, or whatever!!!!


And you dare say not "USDA equivalent"???


:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker, I have seen many many boxes of Canadian beef, that were shipped into this country, and not one of them has not been labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA. How do you see that they are afraid to identify their product, so we will do it for them?


Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Canandians have known Packers rebox their beef,with the deceptive practice you described.
They have known it for years,and say and do nothing,........they are guilty by association.
Now that M Cool is law and they can no longer profit on this deception,they speak loud and clear ?
good luck

 

[Sandhusker]

Most of the beef in the US is commodity beef. What are you going to do when Tyson, Cargill, etal can buy South American commodity beef instead of having to buy yours?

The packers already have been doing this, they are doing it now, and they will continue to do so in the future. This is a moot point. The real point is why do we as USA producers want to spend more money to "identify" our commodity beef, which will then still just be commodity beef. It will be that much more expensive for us to produce, but will still not have any justification to bring in more money when we sell it. The average consumer is more worried about their pocketbook than they are where a beef product comes from. They will not spend any more money for commodity beef that has a USA label than they will for plain old unlabeled commodity beef. In essence, it will just give the imported beef that much more of a competitive edge over us than they have already.

The consumers that do care about buying a premium product will spend extra money to buy branded verified beef such as RobertMac has available. This is the way that it should be.

Actually, Soap, as far as South America goes, they're not doing it - yet. They can't bring up Argentinian beef because of FMD (although the USDA is trying to weaken that) and their are limits on Brazilian. When they can bring up all they want, we will be sunk. You are going to have to match their price or do what RM is doing.

Imported beef doesn't get a price advantage under COOL because the same costs apply - they're in the same program.

I think people will pay a bit more for US product - polls overwhelmingly say they will. Real life experience agrees - why were producers in Korea cheating if their consumers weren't willing to pay more for domestic product? Natural beef is the fastest growing segment in our market and the games of China with melamine, contaminated tooth paste, bad fish, etc... are only fueling the fire.

 

[Bill]

Soapweed, how about identifying it because it's the right thing to do?

I personally want to know every food product that comes from China so I can avoid it. I know they don't have a food safety inspection system that is "USDA equivalent". . . . .

"USDA equivalent", you say? :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

One BSE case, O.K., make that two BSE cases, since Fong outted the Texas cow, no, wait, make that three BSE cases to which we will admit. BUT, that is all we will find in the U.S. cow herd because we have this thing under control!! Well, under cover, anyway!!! Or cover-up, or whatever!!!!


And you dare say not "USDA equivalent"???


:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

CAREFUL MLA or you may be called foolish and rude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OVI, Saadhusker and Hayfaker don't like to be corrected or faced with the facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:

I have to agree with you though. Given their traqck record on BSE identification and reporting I am not sure too many want to strive for the USDA equivalent. ...............A-typical wasn't it?

:roll:

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

There's no additional expense that isn't already there for Canadians, Rod. You already have to brand "CAN". That is sufficient for the packers to know where the animal came from. After that, the labeling and tracking is the same as US beef.

There will be plenty of additional expense for Canadians. First, you'll need some kind of system to track this stuff. Then the retailers will need to segregate, which adds expense. History shows that added cost is _always_ reflected in lower payments to producers. Packers simply don't pass these expenses onto consumers.

Rod

 

[Bill]

There's no additional expense that isn't already there for Canadians, Rod. You already have to brand "CAN". That is sufficient for the packers to know where the animal came from. After that, the labeling and tracking is the same as US beef.

There will be plenty of additional expense for Canadians. First, you'll need some kind of system to track this stuff. Then the retailers will need to segregate, which adds expense. History shows that added cost is _always_ reflected in lower payments to producers. Packers simply don't pass these expenses onto consumers.

Rod

Yes Sadhusker please spin this one again for us:

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19527&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=156

There's no additional expense that isn't already there for Canadians, Rod.

and the very next post Sadhusker wrote:

Commoditiy beef is commodity beef. If all beef produced in the USA is labeled as such, it will still just be commodity USA beef, with no taste or quality guarantees. It will, however, cost producers more to produce because of labeling requirements.

 

[Ben Roberts]

Haymaker, I have seen many many boxes of Canadian beef, that were shipped into this country, and not one of them has not been labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA. How do you see that they are afraid to identify their product, so we will do it for them?


Hay Maker---"Canandians have known Packers rebox their beef,with the deceptive practice you described."

Hay Maker, you are going to have to be more specific so I can understand your meaning. How do you see a deceptive practice in, slaughtering cattle, at a plant in Canada, boxing that beef in a box labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA, ship it to the USA. Again I ask, where is the deception?

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Sandhusker]

There's no additional expense that isn't already there for Canadians, Rod. You already have to brand "CAN". That is sufficient for the packers to know where the animal came from. After that, the labeling and tracking is the same as US beef.

There will be plenty of additional expense for Canadians. First, you'll need some kind of system to track this stuff. Then the retailers will need to segregate, which adds expense. History shows that added cost is _always_ reflected in lower payments to producers. Packers simply don't pass these expenses onto consumers.

Rod

Yes Sadhusker please spin this one again for us:

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19527&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=156

There's no additional expense that isn't already there for Canadians, Rod.

and the very next post Sadhusker wrote:

Commoditiy beef is commodity beef. If all beef produced in the USA is labeled as such, it will still just be commodity USA beef, with no taste or quality guarantees. It will, however, cost producers more to produce because of labeling requirements.

If you're going to try to nail me, Bill ( or should I say Bull? :lol: ) , get your facts straight. Soapweed wrote that second quote that you're attributing to me. You have a heck of a time keeping things straight, done you?

 

[Bill]

There will be plenty of additional expense for Canadians. First, you'll need some kind of system to track this stuff. Then the retailers will need to segregate, which adds expense. History shows that added cost is _always_ reflected in lower payments to producers. Packers simply don't pass these expenses onto consumers.

Rod

Yes Sadhusker please spin this one again for us:

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19527&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=156

There's no additional expense that isn't already there for Canadians, Rod.

and the very next post Sadhusker wrote:

Commoditiy beef is commodity beef. If all beef produced in the USA is labeled as such, it will still just be commodity USA beef, with no taste or quality guarantees. It will, however, cost producers more to produce because of labeling requirements.

If you're going to try to nail me, Bill ( or should I say Bull? :lol: ) , get your facts straight. Soapweed wrote that second quote that you're attributing to me. You have a heck of a time keeping things straight, done you?

Whoops I see that now. Most prople use the boxed quotation 'cept Mr. Powers. My mistake Sadhusker. I am still surprised that you have changed your song and now would be willing to label American as well even though there will be extra costs and risks involved for US producers.

It sure will be nice for the rest of us whenever there is one of the many e-coli recalls that seem to often plague the US plants.

 

[Sandhusker]

I've never changed my tune, Bill, you've got that mixed up, too. Check the archives. For years now I've asked the basic question of how can you make money if you don't sell your product and how can you sell your product if it can't be chosen? This isn't even marketing 101 - this is still high school business.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker, I have seen many many boxes of Canadian beef, that were shipped into this country, and not one of them has not been labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA. How do you see that they are afraid to identify their product, so we will do it for them?


Hay Maker---"Canandians have known Packers rebox their beef,with the deceptive practice you described."

Hay Maker, you are going to have to be more specific so I can understand your meaning. How do you see a deceptive practice in, slaughtering cattle, at a plant in Canada, boxing that beef in a box labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA, ship it to the USA. Again I ask, where is the deception?

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

The deception is in the reboxing the product with the USDA stamp on it,marketing as US beef,the house wife has no idea her beef comes from mexico/Canada or Argentina,she sees the USDA stamp and wrongly assumes it is a USA product.
Anyone contributing to this fraud is participating
in deception..........good luck
PS reread my previous post real slow.

 

[Ben Roberts]

The deception is in the reboxing the product with the USDA stamp on it,marketing as US beef,the house wife has no idea her beef comes from mexico/Canada or Argentina,she sees the USDA stamp and wrongly assumes it is a USA product.
Anyone contributing to this fraud is participating
in deception..........good luck
PS reread my previous post real slow.

Hay Maker, are you talking about reboxing or, are you talking about a Canadian feeder selling cattle, to an American packer in Canada, and that packer shipping that beef, after it has been cut into primals to the USA in a box labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA, USDA inspected at the border by US Customs, delivered to wholesale warehouse in the USA, then delivered to a retail store, there the box (labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA) of primals opened, cut into retail cuts and displayed in a meat case for sale with a US inspected stamp on the package? If that's the case, I still don't see the deception, by the Canadians. If any deception has occurred here, would it not be from the retailer?

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Soapweed]

Soapweed, how about identifying it because it's the right thing to do?

It is just not that easy. There are too many cattle that are always on the move, back and forth across both our north and south borders, not to mention the co-mingling of ground beef.

For another reason, I am selfish. I hate to give southern Okie number four cattle the same delightful designation as high quality Nebraska grain-fed Cherry County originated beef. :wink: Just joking, kinda, but you surely see my point. I am all for your branded pasture-to-plate program. You are definitely on to something good, and have built up a clientele willing to pay you a pretty premium for your value added program. In your own case, you should be one of the last ones to even want a COOL program to go into effect. You are sitting in the driver's seat by having the present confusion as it now exists. Don't wish for something that you will later wish hadn't happened. :roll:

 

[PORKER]

A Canadian feeder selling cattle, to an American packer in Canada, and that packer shipping that beef, after it has been cut into primals to the USA in a box labeled PRODUCT OF CANADA,
****** Canada is already doing COOL as its labeled, but without a Animal ID tied to a peice of Beef.

USDA inspected at the border by US Customs,****** They look at the paperwork and wave a Magic wand and Say OK


delivered to wholesale warehouse in the USA, *******To be cut into CASE ready Beef Cuts Thats Missing A Canadian Maple Leaf or Hamburger with 1/3 Aussie,1/4 whatever TRIM and no ID.(NO IDEA)


then delivered to a retail store, ******* at the latest Green sheet wholesale price list with NO Canadian Maple Leaf or animal ID.

there the box of primals opened, cut into retail cuts *******as USA beef sold to Customers unknowling of its ORIGIN.


and displayed in a meat case for sale with a US inspected stamp on the package? Remember the Magic Wand! ****** IT 's the Normal way. But how do you tell if it's fed Barley and it was a steer and it was a Angus or a Belted breed.