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Ben, the master plan

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Rod, "They handle it on their own utilizing their own ID programs and databases, as it should be."

No, you misunderstood my question. How are those other countries handling the cross-border cattle?

Rod, "So right back at'cha: If you truly believe this is a food safety concern, why should another country handle YOUR food safety?"

I guess I don't understand your question. And BTW, I see it as a food safety issue, a marketing issue, and a survivability of the industry issue. I also feel any country can do whatever they feel is in their best interests.

Rod, "Because the seafood COOL didn't. US fishermen are on record stating that they wish it had never come into existence due to reduced profits."

You sure about that? Here's what I found;
"For instance, in March, the Food Marketing Institute, a trade organization, said seafood labeling had cost 10 times more than original estimates and had failed to increase sales of U.S. seafood. But the United Fishermen of Alaska tell a different story, saying origin labeling has increased demand and prices for their wild salmon."

"Meanwhile, the Food Marketing Institute said last week that mandatory country of origin labeling for seafood is failing to deliver the benefits promised by the law because it has not increased sales of U.S. seafood and cost more to implement than USDA had estimated. FMI also contended that -- based on case studies of its members -- the cost in the first year per store has been $9,000 to $16,000, compared to the $1,530 that USDA had estimated. The cost for suppliers was $200,000 to $250,000 compared with the $1,890 USDA estimated, the group said. FMI suggested the rules be replaced with an industry-led marketing program. Mark Vinsel, executive director of the United Fishermen of Alaska, said Alaska salmon had been eligible for trade adjustment assistance because of import competition. But country-of-origin labeling for seafood had been so effective that prices of fresh salmon covered by the labeling law have gone up so much that those fishermen are no longer eligible for payments, while the price of species that go into canned salmon is so low those fishermen still qualify for payments. Vinsel also said the "wild caught" and "farm-raised" labels have been vital in informing consumers. A spokeswoman for the Southern Shrimp Alliance said it supports mandatory labeling and that labeling works "hand-in-hand" with marketing programs. HELLO......CHECKOFF.....
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
HAY MAKER said:
I cant believe your gall,canada is still grinding animal parts including SRM's and feeding it to cattle,why dont you take responsibility for your inadequateness,no one is buying into your BS................good luck

Hay Maker, you need to research better. We haven't been feeding ruminant to ruminant for years now. The July 12 enhanced ban now removes ruminant by products from ALL animal feeds, including chickens, cats, dogs, fish, etc etc etc.

The US on the other hand is still allowing ruminant to other species. And have no plans to stop allowing the practice.

Rod

Maybe I misunderstood the article,what I read was........As of July 12,
animal parts such as spinal cords will no longer be allowed in animal feed
, pet food or fertilizer. Instead, these parts must be incinerated.
good luck
 
www.alaskacertified.org COOL in Action costs fishermen $0.0025 a lb.

But country-of-origin labeling for seafood had been so effective that prices of fresh salmon covered by the labeling law have gone up so much that those fishermen are no longer eligible for payments.

Who Raised the PRICE of Wild Salmon , www.ScoringAg.com of course because of keeping US. caught fish labeled, not some imports. Here is a code from the grocery on fish SSI_106CCC33CF They were good with a beer batter. You can check the fish record either in the Alaska Database ,The www.traceback.com database or ScoringAg.com
 
Sandhusker said:
Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Well Bill- the plan is to label it all-- US, Canadian, Mexican, etal-- to finally tell the US consumer the truth of where their product comes from-- just like most of the civilized world has been doing for sometime already...

And would have been doing in our countries if the Packer Mafia didn't control our governments so heavily....

I am sure it is news to many that mCOOL WILL (at least according to Oldtimer here on the Bull Session) include labeling all American Beef as product of the USA.

What part of COUNTRY of origin is confusing you, Bill?

What happened to your old "we don't need to label US beef because the rest is "mercun" by default" song and dance?


You're confused - we don't need to ID US beef to label it because of the common sense default.

Who is the one confused Sadhusker?

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18207&highlight=default
Apr 17 Sadhusker wrote:
We don't need a National ID for COOL. Label the product coming in and the rest is US by default. It's being done already! How dang hard does it have to be? If somebody gave me a bucket with 100 marbles in it - 95 white and 5 black and asked me to seperate them, I would pick out the 5 black and be done.

Which way is it going to be next week Sadhusker. Will US beef need to be labeled or will it be recognized as "mercun by default? Do you want to label it all as you now claim or "just pick out the 5 black and be done"?
 
HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
RobertMac said:
Rod, your argument is exactly why the packers don't want COOL...they can no longer ship meat supplies freely across borders so they can pit producers of one country against producers of another.

Ben, MCOOL works...I just finished a piece of salmon my wife bought from Sam's. She bought it because it was a product of USA, not China. With MCOOL on food, countries like China can be held accountable for their products. What I can't understand is why Canadians would be against MCOOL...it should help them sell their superior products!

Canadians are not against mCOOL as long as ALL meat is labeled including US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I welcome the opportunity to lay a package of quality barley fed Candian beef with a Maple Leaf on it along side a package of Eared Southern US beef labeled as such.

The arguement is caused by idiots who think a piece of meat from an animal BORN IN CANADA but fed chicken crap in the US and then slaughtered and labeled in a US plant as product of Canada??????????
One would have to be a complete fool to think that is likely to happen!
:roll:

Put everything on a level playing field and label it whether US or imported and we'll sure as hell meet you head on.

No the argument is caused by idiots that have several cases of both pre and post feed ban,then want to pawn their problems off on the USA cattle man.
I cant believe your gall,canada is still grinding animal parts including SRM's and feeding it to cattle,why dont you take responsibility for your inadequateness,no one is buying into your BS................good luck

Most people, including many Americans that I know and call friends, would rather be an honest idiot that is trying to find its BSE cases and keep them out of the food supply than a crooked fool who has been caught hiding their BSE cases as well as letting them into the human food supply. :oops: I guess not all of us are cut from the same cloth though huh?

I was raised to believe it took a bigger person to admit and learn from their mistakes than one who lied about them and tried to cover them up.
Talk about gall! :roll:
 
Bill said:
HAY MAKER said:
Bill said:
Canadians are not against mCOOL as long as ALL meat is labeled including US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I welcome the opportunity to lay a package of quality barley fed Candian beef with a Maple Leaf on it along side a package of Eared Southern US beef labeled as such.

:roll:

Put everything on a level playing field and label it whether US or imported and we'll sure as hell meet you head on.

No the argument is caused by idiots that have several cases of both pre and post feed ban,then want to pawn their problems off on the USA cattle man.
I cant believe your gall,canada is still grinding animal parts including SRM's and feeding it to cattle,why dont you take responsibility for your inadequateness,no one is buying into your BS................good luck

Most people, including many Americans that I know and call friends, would rather be an honest idiot that is trying to find its BSE cases and keep them out of the food supply than a crooked fool who has been caught hiding their BSE cases as well as letting them into the human food supply. :oops: I guess not all of us are cut from the same cloth though huh?

I was raised to believe it took a bigger person to admit and learn from their mistakes than one who lied about them and tried to cover them up.
Talk about gall! :roll:
Well Billy boy,maybe you oughta practise what you preach,instead of the insults and spin jobs,you make yourself appear foolish and rude...........good luck
 
Rod said:
Don't take my ongoing diatribe in this thread as being "against COOL". I'm truly not. I'd love to see product of Canada all over US supermarkets. But not at the costs I foresee.

Rod, it is really quite simple...
You raise your cattle on your ranch.
You feed your cattle out on your ranch.
You haul them to a Canadian processor and every package of meat comes out with " Diamond S Cattle Co. Product of Canada" on the label that goes with the product to the consumer.

It is when we producers give up some of these jobs, that we lose the 'control' that Ben is talking about. Until we do something to take back that control, no amount of whining and complaining will change a thing.

Bill, MCOOL stands for Mandatory Country Of Origin Labeling...that means it is mandatory to label all product. Requiring a detailed trace back on 100% of product when only 5% is different is an unnecessary expense on the industry.
 
Sandhusker said:
No, you misunderstood my question. How are those other countries handling the cross-border cattle?

I wouldn't have a sniff, but I suspect they stick their own tag into the animal when it comes across, and link it to their own central ID database.

However, they also do not have the same kind of requirements we have with the US. Most other countries feel that if an animal is within their borders for X number of days, they take ownership of it. There isn't any of this Product of Canada, Mexico and the United States labelling going on.

In other words, COOL is easily implemented in those countries.

And as far as Seafood COOL being effective, who ya gonna believe? One particular group (the Alaska group) or an entire bank of retailers and producers (FMI)? I choose the entire bank of retailers and producers, especially those retailers who have chosen NOT to sell seafood anymore because of the expense of segregating.

Rod
 
RobertMac said:
Requiring a detailed trace back on 100% of product when only 5% is different is an unnecessary expense on the industry.

So RM, you're in favor of NOT labelling US beef, just foreign beef? In other words, you're in favor of creating an illegal non-tariff trade barrier?
 
haymaker back up your accustations or retract them. Show me where it is legal or has been legal to feed ruminant by product to ruminants is canada. Nice try but insinuations aren't enough. As for the COOL debate it comes down to this being a non-tariff trade restricting barrier. The US beef born, fed. and killed being product of the US is a crock anyways . If a mexican or canadians beef is slaughterered in the US the animal is a product of that country but the process of taking the animal apart and selling it changes the animal into a consumable produced in the US ergo a product of the US.
 
1 big problem in traceback for COOL is that the databases all stop at the packers door . Not SSI. Some databases don't even leave the ranch as per the reason to use a written Affidavit Form .

Next this affidavit form is not standardized.
https://www.scoringag.com//scoringag/3/files/Affidavit_Form.doc

Problem is that a importer bringing in beef,pork,lamb,goat,and produce never has any records either. He is in the mixed selling business and if he can sneak product in one country ,then ship to another at a profit without records he will do it. The big problem discovered is Brazilian beef with no records going in the EU from FOOT and Mouth Disease areas in Brazil and other countrys. The Irish farmers union is finnally putting a stop to beef with no RECORDS.
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
RobertMac said:
Requiring a detailed trace back on 100% of product when only 5% is different is an unnecessary expense on the industry.

So RM, you're in favor of NOT labelling US beef, just foreign beef?

RM said:
Bill, MCOOL stands for Mandatory Country Of Origin Labeling...that means it is mandatory to label all product.

In other words, you're in favor of creating an illegal non-tariff trade barrier?

I don't have a problem with Canada importing any beef it wants...as long as it is labeled as a product of Canada to the consumer. It's Tyson and Cargill, that run your industry, that don't want to label!!!!!

There is no need to closely inspect 95 white marbles to clearly see that only 5 are black! Common sense ain't too common!!!
 
Question said:
If a mexican or canadians beef is slaughterered in the US the animal is a product of that country but the process of taking the animal apart and selling it changes the animal into a consumable produced in the US ergo a product of the US.

That is exactly what USA cattle producers want changed with MCOOL!!!!!

Question said:
As for the COOL debate it comes down to this being a non-tariff trade restricting barrier.

Only if you think Canadian beef labeled as "Canadian beef" in USA stores will restrict it from selling.
 
RobertMac said:
There is no need to closely inspect 95 white marbles to clearly see that only 5 are black! Common sense ain't too common!!!

What you're advocating RM is that imported beef be exposed to additional expense (labelling, tracking) while US beef is spared that expense. This is an illegal non-tariff trade barrier, as an importing country cannot held to more stringent rules than it applies to its own production. The US is a member of the WTO. This was a voluntary membership, and by extension, means that the US accepted, and indeed had input on, those rules of trade.

Rod
 
www.alaskacertified.org COOL in Action costs fishermen $0.0025 a lb.

But country-of-origin labeling for seafood had been so effective that prices of fresh salmon covered by the labeling law have gone up so much that those fishermen are no longer eligible for payments.

Who Raised the PRICE of Wild Salmon , www.ScoringAg.com of course because of keeping US. caught fish labeled, not some imports. Here is a code from the grocery on fish SSI_106CCC33CF They were good with a beer batter. You can check the fish record either in the Alaska Database ,The www.traceback.com database or ScoringAg.com


One thought , Just how does Canada's cattle database work with the COOL law in other countrys? Could I see A CATTLE RFID code on the package or be able to check with someone in Canada to see if a Canadian Packer had not brought in beef from Argentina.
 
QUESTION said:
haymaker back up your accustations or retract them. Show me where it is legal or has been legal to feed ruminant by product to ruminants is canada. Nice try but insinuations aren't enough. As for the COOL debate it comes down to this being a non-tariff trade restricting barrier. The US beef born, fed. and killed being product of the US is a crock anyways . If a mexican or canadians beef is slaughterered in the US the animal is a product of that country but the process of taking the animal apart and selling it changes the animal into a consumable produced in the US ergo a product of the US.

Listen closely ? M Cool is law,it is not a trade barrier,IM surprised at the canucks that are afraid of having their product identified,where is this positive attitude.we can compete with anyone blah blah etc etc ?
To me its as simple as this ,you will not identify your product,so we will do it for you.
As far as the proof as to the inadequacy of your feed ban............you have alot of reading/catching up to do,as it has been proven countless times,I believe your records will enlighten you to the facts,READ THEM
good luck
 
Bill, for your benefit, I'm typing as slow as I can... Label everything. The way you know what label to put on is to look at the label already on the imported beef, the "M" or the "CAN" brand. Three things, Bill. Everything else has to be US.
 
RobertMac said:
Question said:
If a mexican or canadians beef is slaughterered in the US the animal is a product of that country but the process of taking the animal apart and selling it changes the animal into a consumable produced in the US ergo a product of the US.

That is exactly what USA cattle producers want changed with MCOOL!!!!!

Question said:
As for the COOL debate it comes down to this being a non-tariff trade restricting barrier.

Only if you think Canadian beef labeled as "Canadian beef" in USA stores will restrict it from selling.

I don't end up reading much on the Bull Session proper anymore, so forgive me if I haven't kept up. I can see why some of the people that post here might think COOL would be a help. (I personally do not think it will.) But Robert Mac, you have a niche market of "pasture to plate" branded product that is going over well with the people you sell it to. If COOL is as wonderful as some people think, why would you of all people, want to jeopardize the "competitive edge" that your personal product already has going. Your product will slip to just being commodity beef and be no better than anyone else's if this COOL is so great.

This has been my feeling all along. I am all for voluntary COOL, on branded beef that has fulfilled certain requirements. Commoditiy beef is commodity beef. If all beef produced in the USA is labeled as such, it will still just be commodity USA beef, with no taste or quality guarantees. It will, however, cost producers more to produce because of labeling requirements. As far as producers realizing more money from doing this, it isn't going to happen. More expense, with no extra income, equals less profit. That is why I am against mandatory COOL.
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
RobertMac said:
There is no need to closely inspect 95 white marbles to clearly see that only 5 are black! Common sense ain't too common!!!

What you're advocating RM is that imported beef be exposed to additional expense (labelling, tracking) while US beef is spared that expense. This is an illegal non-tariff trade barrier, as an importing country cannot held to more stringent rules than it applies to its own production. The US is a member of the WTO. This was a voluntary membership, and by extension, means that the US accepted, and indeed had input on, those rules of trade.

Rod

There's no additional expense that isn't already there for Canadians, Rod. You already have to brand "CAN". That is sufficient for the packers to know where the animal came from. After that, the labeling and tracking is the same as US beef.
 
Soap, "This has been my feeling all along. I am all for voluntary COOL, on branded beef that has fulfilled certain requirements. Commoditiy beef is commodity beef. If all beef produced in the USA is labeled as such, it will still just be commodity USA beef, with no taste or quality guarantees. It will, however, cost producers more to produce because of labeling requirements. As far as producers realizing more money from doing this, it isn't going to happen. More expense, with no extra income, equals less profit. That is why I am against mandatory COOL."

Most of the beef in the US is commodity beef. What are you going to do when Tyson, Cargill, etal can buy South American commodity beef instead of having to buy yours?
 

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