Black Herefords

[Doug Thorson]

My point being that consistency is what you gain from linebreeding and using linebred bulls.

My opinion is that all seedstock producers should linebreed tightly for a specific type of cattle and then the commercial man could choose a program that would complement his herd. It isn't about buying bulls as much as buying into a program.
That being said I think all commercial guys should run 2 herds. 1 a linebred herd of specific cows for replacements and another that is a terminal cross.

 

[RobertMac]

My point being that consistency is what you gain from linebreeding and using linebred bulls.

My opinion is that all seedstock producers should linebreed tightly for a specific type of cattle and then the commercial man could choose a program that would complement his herd. It isn't about buying bulls as much as buying into a program.
That being said I think all commercial guys should run 2 herds. 1 a linebred herd of specific cows for replacements and another that is a terminal cross.

:agree:

 

[Doug Thorson]

Thanks, at least somebody agrees with me. Now if I could get some of these guys around here to realize they need a red hereford bull I will be set.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Thanks, at least somebody agrees with me. Now if I could get some of these guys around here to realize they need a red hereford bull I will be set.

I thought you had BLACK Herefords. :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Hereford76]

"Getting the commercial breeders involved in this - that's the whole idea," said Taylor "Something really great can happen, it can really grow because Black Hereford cattle are designed to produce black baldie calves when used on black cows."

This is a quote taken from an article on the Black Hereford website
http://www.blackhereford.com/article.html



When I first read about black herefords I was under the impression the whole goal behind the scheme was to eliminate the red baldies in a Hereford x Angus crossbreeding program that the Black Hereford guys figured cost the commercial man $10/hd when the auction markets or cattle buyers sorted the red baldies from the black hided group.

They talk about heterosis and making baldies on a solid black commercial herd... what they seemed to have overlooked is that a "black hereford bull" has up to I believe 5/16ths Angus in him to start with. So, yes, the commercial cowman with straight black cows can make baldies with a black hereford bull but at the very least he will be giving up 5/16ths heterosis when compared to using a straight horned hereford bull.

I think its just another example of chasing the latest fads. It is easier to market feeders with a black hide or atleast with a uniform hide color and they are trying to capitalize on that - but If producers spent as much time marketing their feeder calves as they did say buying their next bull they wouldn't be complaining about getting "dinged" on red baldies or straight herefords in the first place. Most of the commercial ranchers I know have never even spoken to a feeder or know where their calves end up. I wish more guys would take the time to find out especially the guys with straight herefords cause they would see they are letting buyers rob them of their calves.

Preliminary research shows a $78 advantage for Hereford-sired calves compared to Angus-sired calves in a real-world commercial setting.
http://www.hereford.org/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?TabID=0&ItemID=356&mid=301

 

[PureCountry]

All breed propaganda aside, I agree with you 100% about the marketing efforts. Producers I think have taken it for granted that they can negotiate prices and terms with buyers. If one buyer won't, find another one. If you can afford, or make arrangements to fatten your own cattle, you put yourself in a position to negotiate these things. A buyer for fat cattle doesn't give a damn about color, as long as they're consistent in type and quality is high.

If you take a pen of mix 'n match calves to the auction however, don't complain to anyone when THOSE type of order buyers sort off your colored, or runty, or horned, or one-nutted calves. It's a different market, and you'll only get as much out as you want to put in. It's been a very tough learning curve for us, but we're glad we retain ownership now, as opposed to selling weaned calves.

 

[Hereford76]

This year will be the first time I have ran my calves over and NOT sold them as feeders calves in the Fall/Winter. Going back to 94 I have sold feeder calves to three different feedlots (two in Nebraska and one in Iowa). I have always wanted to run the calves over and try marketing them off grass around 16/17 months - it has just been a hard step to make when you have cow debt. I guess I kind of got myself forced into it this year and this may not be the ideal to start but we will see. I have always combined with a neighboring rancher on a 60,000 lb load on calves that have been weaned around 40 days with 2 rounds of clostridials and viral shots. For some reason I can't figure out the neighbor did not give shots on his calves this year and our contract fell through for delivery on November 10th. We had them sold good I thought early in September. Well the neighbor didn't say anything until a couple nights before the delivery and I informed the buyer about his calves not having shots and it fell through - so here I was sitting in early November with prices that were nowhere near what they were in early september. So I borrowed 600/hd against 54 steer calves and made my payments. Now if we can just see 1.00/lb for yearling this fall... somehow I doubt it though. I am planning on trying to retain ownership on them through vanderose hereford beef.

 

[cowsense]

H 76.........Please expand more on the Vanderose Hereford Beef. I haven't heard of that outfit and am curious on what kind of a program they run.

 

[Hereford76]

I'm not going to try and explain all their specifics cause I'll probably get something wrong. You can go to http://www.vanderosefarms.com to find out more. I met one of the owners this last fall and I think he is a pretty sharp guy. One of the ideas he talked about this fall was the same as what someone in one of these forums talked about with the ability of the Northern plains feeders to secure lower costs to finish. I think he has a pretty good product too... I have talked to retailers that have tried all the hereford labeled products and vanderose beef sounded like it was more consistent and just plain better eating. It would be neat if more of these kind of outfits pop up throughout the country. I wish I had the balls to try and start a business like that - talking to all these feeders that are seeing lower costs to finish on hereford influenced feeders, buying hereford feeders for less, and with a product that eats as good as any... I don't understand why there aren't more hereford beef programs around.

That brings a question to mind - how many feedlots today would be in business without a straight hereford feeder calf? I've talked to a few that mentioned the only money they made was on the straight herefords they fed.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I'm not going to try and explain all their specifics cause I'll probably get something wrong. You can go to http://www.vanderosefarms.com to find out more. I met one of the owners this last fall and I think he is a pretty sharp guy. One of the ideas he talked about this fall was the same as what someone in one of these forums talked about with the ability of the Northern plains feeders to secure lower costs to finish. I think he has a pretty good product too... I have talked to retailers that have tried all the hereford labeled products and vanderose beef sounded like it was more consistent and just plain better eating. It would be neat if more of these kind of outfits pop up throughout the country. I wish I had the balls to try and start a business like that - talking to all these feeders that are seeing lower costs to finish on hereford influenced feeders, buying hereford feeders for less, and with a product that eats as good as any... I don't understand why there aren't more hereford beef programs around.

That brings a question to mind - how many feedlots today would be in business without a straight hereford feeder calf? I've talked to a few that mentioned the only money they made was on the straight herefords they fed.

Couldn't have been because they bought them cheaper?

 

[Denny]

I'm not going to try and explain all their specifics cause I'll probably get something wrong. You can go to http://www.vanderosefarms.com to find out more. I met one of the owners this last fall and I think he is a pretty sharp guy. One of the ideas he talked about this fall was the same as what someone in one of these forums talked about with the ability of the Northern plains feeders to secure lower costs to finish. I think he has a pretty good product too... I have talked to retailers that have tried all the hereford labeled products and vanderose beef sounded like it was more consistent and just plain better eating. It would be neat if more of these kind of outfits pop up throughout the country. I wish I had the balls to try and start a business like that - talking to all these feeders that are seeing lower costs to finish on hereford influenced feeders, buying hereford feeders for less, and with a product that eats as good as any... I don't understand why there aren't more hereford beef programs around.

That brings a question to mind - how many feedlots today would be in business without a straight hereford feeder calf? I've talked to a few that mentioned the only money they made was on the straight herefords they fed.

Couldn't have been because they bought them cheaper?

Stole them is more like it.

I sold my 600 black steer's for 1.21 end of october bought back 400# red and hereford steers and heifers for 89 cents average alot of money to be made feeding these calves.

 

[RobertMac]

I'm not going to try and explain all their specifics cause I'll probably get something wrong. You can go to http://www.vanderosefarms.com to find out more. I met one of the owners this last fall and I think he is a pretty sharp guy. One of the ideas he talked about this fall was the same as what someone in one of these forums talked about with the ability of the Northern plains feeders to secure lower costs to finish. I think he has a pretty good product too... I have talked to retailers that have tried all the hereford labeled products and vanderose beef sounded like it was more consistent and just plain better eating. It would be neat if more of these kind of outfits pop up throughout the country. I wish I had the balls to try and start a business like that - talking to all these feeders that are seeing lower costs to finish on hereford influenced feeders, buying hereford feeders for less, and with a product that eats as good as any... I don't understand why there aren't more hereford beef programs around.

That brings a question to mind - how many feedlots today would be in business without a straight hereford feeder calf? I've talked to a few that mentioned the only money they made was on the straight herefords they fed.

Couldn't have been because they bought them cheaper?

BMR, I have to wonder if you realize what you just stated???
Making money is more important than a black hide???

 

[Soapweed]

I'm not going to try and explain all their specifics cause I'll probably get something wrong. You can go to http://www.vanderosefarms.com to find out more. I met one of the owners this last fall and I think he is a pretty sharp guy. One of the ideas he talked about this fall was the same as what someone in one of these forums talked about with the ability of the Northern plains feeders to secure lower costs to finish. I think he has a pretty good product too... I have talked to retailers that have tried all the hereford labeled products and vanderose beef sounded like it was more consistent and just plain better eating. It would be neat if more of these kind of outfits pop up throughout the country. I wish I had the balls to try and start a business like that - talking to all these feeders that are seeing lower costs to finish on hereford influenced feeders, buying hereford feeders for less, and with a product that eats as good as any... I don't understand why there aren't more hereford beef programs around.

That brings a question to mind - how many feedlots today would be in business without a straight hereford feeder calf? I've talked to a few that mentioned the only money they made was on the straight herefords they fed.

Couldn't have been because they bought them cheaper?

Stole them is more like it.

I sold my 600# black steer's for 1.21 end of october bought back 400# red and hereford steers and heifers for 89 cents average alot of money to be made feeding these calves.

The way I look at it is that if there is a salebarn full of buyers, probably what the bid is on a certain bunch of cattle is pretty much what they are worth for that time and that day. This also goes for horse sales, antique auctions, or anything else. Sure, you can "wish in one hand and do something else in another and see which one fills up first."

Were there other bunches of red and Hereford steers there that day, Denny, that also "sold too cheap"? If so, they should have been bought if there was great opportunity to make fast easy money.

Some of us don't want to run a feedlot or have a butcher shop. This is the precise reason I am trying to raise the type and color of cattle that bring me the most dollars through an auction market. I realize that it is just "perception" that makes black cattle supposedly worth more, but until I find out for a fact that this no longer holds true, I will probably keep raising black cattle.

Denny, I am just using your example as fuel for my arguement, and am not picking on you at all. I am just laying out the issues as I see them.

 

[RobertMac]

Soapweed, here is another way is another way to look at it...

You sell your black calves and make $100.00 more per head than I do selling my red calves.
But, it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

 

[High Plains]

You sell your black calves and make $100.00 more per head than I do selling my red calves.
But, it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

RobertMac, I'm not sure you're going to get that theory across! :shock: But thanks for the Monday-morning chuckle. :wink:

HP

 

[Soapweed]

Soapweed, here is another way is another way to look at it...

You sell your black calves and make $100.00 more per head than I do selling my red calves.
But, it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

Having "tried them all" I know for a fact that you are blowing smoke, but I too enjoyed the chuckle.

Have a good and profitable day. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to try and explain all their specifics cause I'll probably get something wrong. You can go to http://www.vanderosefarms.com to find out more. I met one of the owners this last fall and I think he is a pretty sharp guy. One of the ideas he talked about this fall was the same as what someone in one of these forums talked about with the ability of the Northern plains feeders to secure lower costs to finish. I think he has a pretty good product too... I have talked to retailers that have tried all the hereford labeled products and vanderose beef sounded like it was more consistent and just plain better eating. It would be neat if more of these kind of outfits pop up throughout the country. I wish I had the balls to try and start a business like that - talking to all these feeders that are seeing lower costs to finish on hereford influenced feeders, buying hereford feeders for less, and with a product that eats as good as any... I don't understand why there aren't more hereford beef programs around.

That brings a question to mind - how many feedlots today would be in business without a straight hereford feeder calf? I've talked to a few that mentioned the only money they made was on the straight herefords they fed.

Couldn't have been because they bought them cheaper?

Stole them is more like it.

I sold my 600 black steer's for 1.21 end of october bought back 400# red and hereford steers and heifers for 89 cents average alot of money to be made feeding these calves.

Denny-- I wish I had some extra pasture out here to run those calves for you...Those are the money makers that can really go out there and put on the pounds in this shortgrass country up here....Feed them as cheaply as possible thru the winter for a little gain--turn them out on grass in April/May and they just put on the pounds...Ready to sell in Aug/Sept at about 800-900 at $1+ ....
Over the years of watching herefords sell- they seem to get docked- or cut back- and just don't seem to have the demand as calves- but once they get yearling size, they sell right along with everything else....

 

[Red Robin]

Couldn't have been because they bought them cheaper?

Stole them is more like it.

I sold my 600# black steer's for 1.21 end of october bought back 400# red and hereford steers and heifers for 89 cents average alot of money to be made feeding these calves.

The way I look at it is that if there is a salebarn full of buyers, probably what the bid is on a certain bunch of cattle is pretty much what they are worth for that time and that day. This also goes for horse sales, antique auctions, or anything else. Sure, you can "wish in one hand and do something else in another and see which one fills up first."

Were there other bunches of red and Hereford steers there that day, Denny, that also "sold too cheap"? If so, they should have been bought if there was great opportunity to make fast easy money.

Some of us don't want to run a feedlot or have a butcher shop. This is the precise reason I am trying to raise the type and color of cattle that bring me the most dollars through an auction market. I realize that it is just "perception" that makes black cattle supposedly worth more, but until I find out for a fact that this no longer holds true, I will probably keep raising black cattle.

Denny, I am just using your example as fuel for my arguement, and am not picking on you at all. I am just laying out the issues as I see them.

Soapweed the fella that went to Ogllala and watched those 647 weight heifers bring better than a dollar thirty was told by the Ogllala sale barn owner that a set of 6 weight reds brought over 150 a little while back. Are the reds that much better than the blacks out there? :lol:

 

[RobertMac]

Soapweed, here is another way is another way to look at it...

You sell your black calves and make $100.00 more per head than I do selling my red calves.
But, it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

Having "tried them all" I know for a fact that you are blowing smoke, but I too enjoyed the chuckle.

Have a good and profitable day. :wink:

Not that it will matter, but I noticed I left a word out. Should have read...

But, if it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

And, yes, theoretically!

My point was that controlling cost is the best way to make profit.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Soapweed, here is another way is another way to look at it...

You sell your black calves and make $100.00 more per head than I do selling my red calves.
But, it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

Having "tried them all" I know for a fact that you are blowing smoke, but I too enjoyed the chuckle.

Have a good and profitable day. :wink:

Not that it will matter, but I noticed I left a word out. Should have read...

But, if it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

And, yes, theoretically!

My point was that controlling cost is the best way to make profit.

Could you explain "HOW" you could posssibly raise Red cattle for $150 less then BLACK cattle?