Black Herefords

[Big Muddy rancher]

Well sorry for being snarky H76 .

I wanted R Mac to explain how he got his red calves to the same point as a black calf for $150 less.


He must have a real secret if he can raise red calves for "$150"
less then Black calves.


If he is buying Red calves for "$150" less then Black calves then why are those people raising red calves?

I'm all for raising the kind of cattle a person enjoys and works for them.

 

[Hereford76]

Does anyone remember who posted or where in this ranchers.net was the picture of that black welsch (looked more red) bull taken by Browarny standing in some straw by a 1x12 wind break?

 

[High Plains]

Me thinks this thread has deteriorated a bit. Always fun to poke around at the other guy's breed a little bit, but we've slid off the deep end. :help:

RobertMac corrected his statement to say that he intended to point out the virtues of low cost production, not necessarily that red cattle can be produced at $150 less per head across the board.

If it were as simple as color, well they would all be the same.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm all for raising the kind of cattle a person enjoys and works for them.

Sometimes you have a "marketing scheme" come along that influences the type cattle you use--a good example was "Future Beef" that came in and contracted up 1000's of head of cattle in this area at top top prices-- but in order to qualify the calves had to be at least 1/4 limo or char (I think that was the breeds if I remember right) but couldn't be over 1/2...Most considered these terminal cross's and sold all- but some kept heifers (limo X) and ran into some mother cow problems down the line....

A lot of people were buying up limo, limo X, and char bulls to be able to qualify...Then when Future Beef went down the drain- they were left with a more terminal type herd- that they weren't getting the high premiums for...Some stayed with that type crossing- a few that had went with the limos hooked up with Lauras Lean--but a lot went back to their straight red or black angus- as it was just easier to manage and they could again raise your own more maternal replacement heifers...

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Soapweed, here is another way is another way to look at it...

You sell your black calves and make $100.00 more per head than I do selling my red calves.
But, it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

How did he get his calves to the same point for $150 less?



That's all I ask.

If he can do it with Red calves could he not do it with Black?

How much would he be ahead if he sold Black calves for $100 more but raised them for $150 less then his neighbors?

 

[Anonymous]

Does anyone remember who posted or where in this ranchers.net was the picture of that black welsch (looked more red) bull taken by Browarny standing in some straw by a 1x12 wind break?

You mean Randy Kaisers three year old Fullblood Red Welsh Black bull.

[/quote]

 

[Hereford76]

Yes - there it is. I guess I was wrong on the 1x12 wind break looks like a pole windreak. Anyways - I could stare at that picture all day. I'm going to have to make a point and see that bull the next time I go North... maybe see some of his daughers/calves/etc.

thanks ot

 

[RobertMac]

Soapweed, here is another way is another way to look at it...

You sell your black calves and make $100.00 more per head than I do selling my red calves.
But, it cost me $150.00 less per head to get my calves to the same point, who made more money?

How did he get his calves to the same point for $150 less?



That's all I ask.

If he can do it with Red calves could he not do it with Black?

How much would he be ahead if he sold Black calves for $100 more but raised them for $150 less then his neighbors?

Big Muddy, I'll let you figure it out...

It cost me roughly $200 to $250 per head to run my operation(all cost except my labor).
The animals I run through my beef program net back to my cattle company a little less than twice what I would get at the sell barn. I just got to get this drought off my back so I can expand my herd...and my per head cost will come down. Obviously, my cost and net would be different someplace else.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes - there it is. I guess I was wrong on the 1x12 wind break looks like a pole windreak. Anyways - I could stare at that picture all day. I'm going to have to make a point and see that bull the next time I go North... maybe see some of his daughers/calves/etc.

thanks ot

He is a nice looking hunk of beef -- but don't tell that old Canuck Randy I ever said that :wink:

 

[PureCountry]

Hereford76, Randy & I spent this past weekend clipping the bulls for our Welsh Black/ Galloway bull sale to be held Feb. 23rd at Lakeland College's Bull Test Station in Vermillion, AB. He spent Sunday with the photographer getting shots of all bulls for the catalog. They'll be online within a few days, and I'm sure Randy or myself can post the link then.

That particular bull is quite the beast. When you say you could look at his pic all day - wait til you see him up close and personal. I could walk him around all day. I'm sure Randy has some sons in the sale, too.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Hereford76, Randy & I spent this past weekend clipping the bulls for our Welsh Black/ Galloway bull sale to be held Feb. 23rd at Lakeland College's Bull Test Station in Vermillion, AB. He spent Sunday with the photographer getting shots of all bulls for the catalog. They'll be online within a few days, and I'm sure Randy or myself can post the link then.

That particular bull is quite the beast. When you say you could look at his pic all day - wait til you see him up close and personal. I could walk him around all day. I'm sure Randy has some sons in the sale, too.

Did you mean it takes you all day to walk around him. :wink:

 

[RobertMac]

Hereford76, Randy & I spent this past weekend clipping the bulls for our Welsh Black/ Galloway bull sale to be held Feb. 23rd at Lakeland College's Bull Test Station in Vermillion, AB. He spent Sunday with the photographer getting shots of all bulls for the catalog. They'll be online within a few days, and I'm sure Randy or myself can post the link then.

That particular bull is quite the beast. When you say you could look at his pic all day - wait til you see him up close and personal. I could walk him around all day. I'm sure Randy has some sons in the sale, too.

I agree, I don't think a picture does an animal justice.
Feb. 23....good thing y'all are waiting until it warms up a bit!! :shock: :wink:
I'll have my farmer's tan by then...72F and cloudy today! Be pushing 80F if the sun was out! 8)

 

[Hereford76]

Lakeland College's Bull Test Station in Vermillion, AB.

Is that the only bull test in Vermillion and is it an all breeds deal. I know a guy that has a son of a bull I have been AIing to that is supposedly in Vermillion at a bull test. He has bragged him up as quite a bull - would like to go

I want to go up in the Maidstone area this february to see a few herds and sales.

Post the link to when you get it done.

The reason cattle like that intrigue me is because the breed looks like it was never screwed up when all the breeds were pushing framier cattle or injecting another breed to get them were some are today.

 

[kph]

From the latest Hereford World mag, a study by the Harris ranch in California mating 400 Angus based commercial cows to 10 Angus and 10 Hereford bulls showed that after the first crop of steers had been finished the Hereford sired calves showed a nearly 78.00 net advantage over the Angus sired steers due to increased gain and feed efficiency. That was including the Angus group's advantage of higher percent grading choice. Now I know you can make a study show whatever result you want, but the same sort of tests have been done many times with Hereford calves consistently outdoing other breeds in feed efficiency. Might not be 150.00 but with rising feed prices feeders better take another look at these Hereford influnced calves.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

In a 2002-2004 study conducted by the Iowa Tri-County Steer Carcass Futurity, high-percentage Angus cattle from 12 states fed at eight Iowa feedlots returned $67.93 more per head than low-percentage Angus cattle due to carcass and performance advantages. Feedlot average daily gain (ADG) improved as percentage of Angus increased, and net carcass premiums were almost $30 more per head for high-percentage Angus cattle.

 

[Doug Thorson]

part of my post from annother thread

Advantages to feeding herefords has to do with feed conversion. I am certain that the same lot operators said at $3.00 corn they could take $5.00 hundred less for herefords and break even with angus. Make that $5.00 corn and I don't know where the spread ends, but high priced corn should be the best thing that ever happened to the hereford breed.

Let me make this clear

HIGH PRICED CORN SHOULD BE THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE HEREFORD BREED

Feedlot guys have told me that straight hereford calves will finish on 10%less corn than average while F1's will finish on 7% less.

When this is realized by all feedlots, where will you be positioned?

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

part of my post from annother thread

Advantages to feeding herefords has to do with feed conversion. I am certain that the same lot operators said at $3.00 corn they could take $5.00 hundred less for herefords and break even with angus. Make that $5.00 corn and I don't know where the spread ends, but high priced corn should be the best thing that ever happened to the hereford breed.

Let me make this clear

HIGH PRICED CORN SHOULD BE THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE HEREFORD BREED

Feedlot guys have told me that straight hereford calves will finish on 10%less corn than average while F1's will finish on 7% less.

When this is realized by all feedlots, where will you be positioned?

Where have you been positioned for the last number of years?

I could throw a Hereford bull on my cows if needed. Have you run Black Angus bulls on your cows since they were paying a premium for black hides?

 

[kph]

In a 2002-2004 study conducted by the Iowa Tri-County Steer Carcass Futurity, high-percentage Angus cattle from 12 states fed at eight Iowa feedlots returned $67.93 more per head than low-percentage Angus cattle due to carcass and performance advantages. Feedlot average daily gain (ADG) improved as percentage of Angus increased, and net carcass premiums were almost $30 more per head for high-percentage Angus cattle.

This study compared Angus/ "Continental" crosses, not Angus/Hereford crosses. It was also based on quality grade premiums and not considering feed efficiency.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

In a 2002-2004 study conducted by the Iowa Tri-County Steer Carcass Futurity, high-percentage Angus cattle from 12 states fed at eight Iowa feedlots returned $67.93 more per head than low-percentage Angus cattle due to carcass and performance advantages. Feedlot average daily gain (ADG) improved as percentage of Angus increased, and net carcass premiums were almost $30 more per head for high-percentage Angus cattle.

This study compared Angus/ "Continental" crosses, not Angus/Hereford crosses. It was also based on quality grade premiums and not considering feed efficiency.

It was just posted to show that studies can show what the one that pays for the study wants.


I was wondering what the Hereford breeders that tell us we need to be looking at Hereford for the future have been doing in the past when Black animal have brought premiums.

 

[SMN Herf]

[/quote]Back when I first started we had a hereford bull in the fall we sold at the local salesbarn all the calves were sired by the same bull.The cows were black and black baldies we ended up with 2 hereford looking calves that year they were as good as the others we got 85 cent's for the black's and 65 cent's for those hereford's.We have'nt used a hereford bull since.I will be this year but only on straight black commercial cows that I know have NO hereford in them.

If you can buy me a potload of Hereford cross calves for 20 back, give me a call. But I suppose you will be bidding against me then :wink:

The red WF calves are an issue. Especially when used on bwf cows. Management can negate quite a bit of that tthough.

The last few years I have had followed several of my customers calves when they sell, sometimes I buy them too, and many times the rwf calves will outweight the blacks and bring 3 to 5 less, but in total dollars it will end up within 10 to 15 of the black calves. But they are getting an extra 10% on the rest of the calves from the heterosis. The customers are still dollars ahead on the whole bunch. So often the last thing we remember about our calves is the day they get sold and the price we received but forget about the extra fertility, extra live calves and the extra weight we get along the way.

Demand is building for baldies and I think the red discount will decrease or go away in many cases in the future.

Yesterday I heard an ad on WNAX radio from National Beef looking to buy BWF, RWF and Hereford fed cattlering

There are more and more programs taking both rwf and bwf calves.

Brian