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Bundy Ranch

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I hope everyone is contacting their State and federal representative and bring this use of excessive force to their attention.

Haven't seen the Harry Reid connection on the TV. wonder why? :?
 
http://www.infowars.com/county-commissioner-says-bundy-supporters-better-have-funeral-plans/
 
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/energy/item/12730-harry-reid-bolsters-son%E2%80%99s-interests-in-chinese-solar-plant-deal
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=1109276&privcapId=2404040
http://nlpc.org/stories/2012/09/10/chinese-solar-company-learns-cronyism-harry-reid

How Cleaver we steal the ranchers land to build a solar power field. That his son is in partners with. We get his water and sell it to the SNWA where his son is the president of the BOD. And then We condemn NV Energy for making Coal Fire Power, In a attempt to get NV energy to buy the power made by his sons company. The BLM Director was His Top aide, and he supported the Clark county Sherriff in the last election. That is out and out RACKETEERING The RICO act comes to mind pretty fast.
In1877 When the Bundy's first settled in Bunker Ville. Nevada was considered a waste land by the federal gov and it was common law that if you owned the water you owned the grazing rights. "This Video is extremely important in unraveling the facts" http://vimeo.com/8520897.
If you take time to watch that Video and read the links posted you will put the puzzle together.. in northern Nevada they have begun there siege, They are claiming Drought and sage grouse concerns, They have closed grazing districts, and are Putting the first steps of the financial squeeze on the ranchers as we speak.. The dates are important as well 1993 if you look you will find the relevance...... I am not Sure just what you or I can do. We have corrupt elected official's. And we have become their subjects. They feed the Poor and unwilling, They encourage the lack of morality. And all they need to do is BUY the Cheapest vote, and that is in the city.
 
Help me understand.
#1 Mr. Bundy does not own the land, we the people do.
#2 Is it true Mr. Bundy was given compensation for his loss of grazing on land he does not own?
#3 Mr. Bundy has illegally grazed cattle on land not his and which he paid no rent or fees for 20 years?
#4 Mr. Bundy paid a third party for the right to use property neither own?
#5 After 20 years Mr. Bundy is threatening force if his cattle are removed?
# Now people are supporting him as being treated unfairly?
I am not trying to get people excited but I don't understand.
PS I am a farmer, Viet Nam vet, conservative Christian just to clear the air. Thanks
 
farmguy said:
Help me understand.
#1 Mr. Bundy does not own the land, we the people do.
#2 Is it true Mr. Bundy was given compensation for his loss of grazing on land he does not own?
#3 Mr. Bundy has illegally grazed cattle on land not his and which he paid no rent or fees for 20 years?
#4 Mr. Bundy paid a third party for the right to use property neither own?
#5 After 20 years Mr. Bundy is threatening force if his cattle are removed?
# Now people are supporting him as being treated unfairly?
I am not trying to get people excited but I don't understand.
PS I am a farmer, Viet Nam vet, conservative Christian just to clear the air. Thanks
Click to expand...

1. I suspect the answer is yes.

2. From what I have read - No - apparently the BLM "suspended" the rights meaning no compensation is provided.

3. Illegal in some eyes and not others

4. Might be so - do not know

5. Depends on who you read and what you read but apparently he has been calling for calm.

6. I think that is an appropriate call as he has been treated unfairly


And I do not believe your last comments because you seem to have an agenda and I also think you are hiding behind your qualifiers. There are many on this board that can call themselves all the same things and in some cases even more.

In the end it is like this - he could have been picked up in town by any sheriff with no problem.

Instead he is met with snipers, automatic weapons, more than a couple hundred armed people and helicopters.

So while pretending to be reasonable you throw an OT type comment at us.

I will respond to your PS comments.

Now let's put the shoe on the other foot and for an example say you missed your payments - purposely or otherwise.

Is this an appropriate way for an ADMINISTRATIVE branch of the government to treat its people?

Imagine if you went home and found this happening in your front yard.

It seems you have asked the questions, but done it in a manner as to throw the rancher in a bad light.

Perhaps you need to do a bit more research before you look even more like an OT troll.

Now if I have managed to tick everyone off - then I will back off and let you come back and perhaps clarify my initial reaction to your questions and comments.

But for the moment I believe you have a hidden agenda - and find the treatment of the rancher appropriate - I hope you do not but that is my gut feel.

Off to do chores - best to all

bc
 
All my family is down here today a horse back to get his cows back. They (BLM) have been destroying all his water developments. That he has the water rights on. This could come to a head today.
 
farmguy said:
Help me understand.
#1 Mr. Bundy does not own the land, we the people do.
#2 Is it true Mr. Bundy was given compensation for his loss of grazing on land he does not own?
#3 Mr. Bundy has illegally grazed cattle on land not his and which he paid no rent or fees for 20 years?
#4 Mr. Bundy paid a third party for the right to use property neither own?
#5 After 20 years Mr. Bundy is threatening force if his cattle are removed?
# Now people are supporting him as being treated unfairly?
I am not trying to get people excited but I don't understand.
PS I am a farmer, Viet Nam vet, conservative Christian just to clear the air. Thanks
Click to expand...

#1 I think your right.
#2 Not from what I have read or heard. He was to sign a contract to suspend his AUM's and he didn't. I 've heard he offerd to pay and they wouldn't accept payment and I've heard he payed Clark county. I don't know for what.
#3 Is the BLM being manipulated for profit and gain by other sources?
#4 Clark County?
#5 From what I have seen they have been vary careful NOT to be armed in their protest.
#6 Does the USA NOT have Free Speech in the WHOLE USA not just behind snow fence enclosures?
#7 Why NOW? IF the cattle have been there 20 years illegally why do a round up in the spring with small calves and pregnat cows? Why not do a fall round up with market sized cattle and recoup "Back" payment?

I tried to answer your questions, Could you try and answer mine? :)
 
Ho55 said:
All my family is down here today a horse back to get his cows back. They (BLM) have been destroying all his water developments. That he has the water rights on. This could come to a head today.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by destroying? Are they filling in dugouts, removing stock tanks, toppling windmills?

Whatever happens today, be careful out there. Hopefully cooler heads prevail.
 
per said:
http://www.infowars.com/county-commissioner-says-bundy-supporters-better-have-funeral-plans/
Click to expand...

If this is true then that's an awful strong threat from an elected official.
 
The BLM are pulling out and leaving due to the safety of the public. Now let's see what Bundy will do for the safety of the public

Will he peacefully remove his cattle as ordered by the courts?
Will he pay the back fees of a million dollars the government says he owes as I doubt any court is going to take his claim of him not recognizing the BLM as the authority in charge of the land as a defense as it seems two courts have alright ruled against his defense strategy?
Or will he and his family continue to defy the law and not pay their grazing fees provoking yet another armed showdown with the Federal government?

And before you all jump all over me I don't agree with the way the government handled the whole mess or the Wyoming family EPA mess or the California Smelt mess and I do not have an agenda like others have been accused of but if you stopped paying your lease fees to a private owner how long do you think you would be allowed to graze your herds on the his land? If you were to go to court and claim you did not recognize him to be the owner of the land as your family has been grazing the land for years before the guy bought/ inhereited it, do you think that would get you out of your obligations to pay your back fees or have to get out so the land owner could do as he pleased with his land?

AGAIN I don't agree with how the BLM handled it but I might have had a bit more sympathy for Bundy if he had been paying his fees and not claiming he did not recognize the BLM's authority. I don't feel the BLM was the only ones handling the mess wrong, as I see it Bundy used the hate for this publicly over reaching government to push his defiance to the court orders against him and won for now!!!
 
Some locals say that they are/were rounding up the mommas and leaving the babies in the desert.

You know what will happen to them.

In one video there was a cow with a full udder herded up with some others and no calf in sight.

Apparently a deal has been struck and the BLM has backed off.

For now.
 
Tam said:
The BLM are pulling out and leaving due to the safety of the public. Now let's see what Bundy will do for the safety of the public

Will he peacefully remove his cattle as ordered by the courts?
Will he pay the back fees of a million dollars the government says he owes as I doubt any court is going to take his claim of him not recognizing the BLM as the authority in charge of the land as a defense as it seems two courts have alright ruled against his defense strategy?
Or will he and his family continue to defy the law and not pay their grazing fees provoking yet another armed showdown with the Federal government?

And before you all jump all over me I don't agree with the way the government handled the whole mess or the Wyoming family EPA mess or the California Smelt mess and I do not have an agenda like others have been accused of but if you stopped paying your lease fees to a private owner how long do you think you would be allowed to graze your herds on the his land? If you were to go to court and claim you did not recognize him to be the owner of the land as your family has been grazing the land for years before the guy bought/ inhereited it, do you think that would get you out of your obligations to pay your back fees or have to get out so the land owner could do as he pleased with his land?

AGAIN I don't agree with how the BLM handled it but I might have had a bit more sympathy for Bundy if he had been paying his fees and not claiming he did not recognize the BLM's authority. I don't feel the BLM was the only ones handling the mess wrong, as I see it Bundy used the hate for this publicly over reaching government to push his defiance to the court orders against him and won for now!!!
Click to expand...


Once again I agree with you Tam. Everyone here got a bit overwrought and the drama was made worse as time went on.

He should'a been paying his bills.... I gotta pay mine....you gotta pay yours!! He's no better than any rancher in any other place.



This really sets a bad precedence where mobs can bully and get their way. Not good. We all have gov't in place for a reason and they are no always wrong or bad.
 
Unless I missed something in another post, it is impossible to understand who "the son...." mentioned in the post by W.E. is. That information is crucial to knowing what probably is the REAL reason for the determination to remove the Bundy family cattle, and the family itself from the land.

Harry Reid is father of "the son", and that son is involved in some very big financial deals involving solar companies developing the land in question. For profit, no less! "Profit" seems to be such a nasty word among many liberals, it is amazing a Democrat, liberal politician would have any family member involved in this oh so messy situation!

mrj
 
Ignoring comments on my "hidden agenda" Bundy made a comment that he owns the land. Help me understand how he can believe this.
 
Prior to the 1930's if you owned the water right in an area you controlled the land. In most of the west, without water you are done. No farming or grazing, even homesteads wouldn't be possible without water. We own the water rights all over the grazing allotment we use. Even if we didn't graze, no one else could because they wouldn't have water. So prior to the Taylor Grazing act of the 1930's even though it was public land, it was almost like private land. We think of our allotment as "our" land because we have generations of blood, sweat and tears invested in it. 99% of ranchers take better care of public land than the "public" does. WE don't leave trash everywhere, defecate behind every bush near campsites without covering it up, start wild land fires from campfires or stupidity, tear up meadows and riparian areas with atvs, shoot signs and gates and leave empty casings everywhere, ect

The Taylor grazing act was needed to rein in large corporate ranches who would flood the range with to many cattle and devastate the resource. They would move the cows after the grass was gone but the damage was done. The taylor act put regulation in place to protect the resource from over grazing. It ended free grazing and folks who owned the water rights and had homesteads and private land had priority over roving outfits with home bases in different states. My great, great grandfather was awarded our grazing rights and we have kept them in our family ever since. They have a cash value if we choose to sell them that is whatever the market dictates. Only the person or ranch that owns the grazing right can graze cattle on each allotment. Currently, each cow/calf unit is worth about $4000 to buy that grazing right. That does not include the animal. We pay approximately $1.85 per AUM from May 15th to Nov. 1st. That is not a charge per AUM like you pay for private land leases. It is a fee on the grazing right that we own. For that Right, you get to deal with the public 24/7. You also get government regulation that rarely makes sense. It is not a free lunch.

Mr. Bundy maintains his rights from before the taylor grazing act. The courts have ruled against him and he must believe he doesn't need to comply because he disagrees with the ruling. While I sympathize with him, I don't see how he will win this. The government backs the BLM with the endangered species act. The current political climate is against him and throw in these radical environmental groups who dictate policy for the BLM and Forest Service I cant see how he wins. I commend his fight and see his point. apparently 80 million buffalo never stepped on a turtle but 1000 cows will hunt them down and kick them over ledges just for fun. I hope this epistle clears up things a little. It is a complex and emotional issue. It comes down to folks are tired of mismanagement and out right war carried out on them by the BLM. The ranger managers used to be people who had experience in ranching, mining, logging, ect. Now they are here to SAVE the west from the evil influence of greedy, ignorant ranchers. They have degrees from Delaware State and have never seen a cow til they arrive to change the world. This issue combines all this emotion and distrust and adds flak jackets and police dogs and tazers and you have the complete cluster it became. Thanks for having an open mind and asking questions instead of just assuming the Bundys were wrong. They aren't perfect, but I'd submit most people from this site might react likewise if we walked in Mr. Bundys boots. PM me if ya need more info.

I am happy to see the BLM blinked and hope cooler heads prevail. For the good of the land and the cattle and the families and the federal officials. Now would be a wonderful time for leadership from this joke of a president.
 
farmguy said:
Ignoring comments on my "hidden agenda" Bundy made a comment that he owns the land. Help me understand how he can believe this.
Click to expand...

You come on here, ask some questions, get some answers from more than one person - and get a few questions back.

You ignore it all and continue with your agenda.

Looks like another troll.

For whatever reason - if you are ever in a spot and get dealt with in such a heavy handed manner - even by being pulled over for speeding - look in the mirror - the reason this schitte happens is because people do not stand up to it.

After all - a simple matter that could have been solved in a heart beat by knocking on his door - or picking him up when he showed up in town for parts or supplies.

When the drug runners come over the border - even they do not get treated this bad.

More to this than meets the eye and the feds are backing off for a reason - and you can bet safety is not it as Waco shows what they think of safety.

Someone waited a lot of years and did nothing - yet now it is worth the heavy federal armour.

Think on that for a bit.

We have one OT on this board - no need to deal with a second one.

So - you go on ignore for now.

Have a nice day

bc
 
For Pete's sake stop name calling and answer a simple question. I have had no answer to a simple question. Why does he state he owns the land? Many years ago I found out that if you can't answer the question. Attack the person who asks the question. Next take your toys and go home or in this case stop posting. We live in another state and have no BLM leases or similar. So how one considers land theirs if they rent the land I do not understand period. We do own rental property and the idea of renting property and then claiming ownership seems unbelievable as well as selling your lease to another. Also while on a roll here the rental rate for land has gone up 30 to 40 fold over the last decades but the AUM rates have remained the same. I do not understand. So call me what you will but answer the question. Thanks
 
kolanuraven said:
Tam said:
The BLM are pulling out and leaving due to the safety of the public. Now let's see what Bundy will do for the safety of the public

Will he peacefully remove his cattle as ordered by the courts?
Will he pay the back fees of a million dollars the government says he owes as I doubt any court is going to take his claim of him not recognizing the BLM as the authority in charge of the land as a defense as it seems two courts have alright ruled against his defense strategy?
Or will he and his family continue to defy the law and not pay their grazing fees provoking yet another armed showdown with the Federal government?

And before you all jump all over me I don't agree with the way the government handled the whole mess or the Wyoming family EPA mess or the California Smelt mess and I do not have an agenda like others have been accused of but if you stopped paying your lease fees to a private owner how long do you think you would be allowed to graze your herds on the his land? If you were to go to court and claim you did not recognize him to be the owner of the land as your family has been grazing the land for years before the guy bought/ inhereited it, do you think that would get you out of your obligations to pay your back fees or have to get out so the land owner could do as he pleased with his land?

AGAIN I don't agree with how the BLM handled it but I might have had a bit more sympathy for Bundy if he had been paying his fees and not claiming he did not recognize the BLM's authority. I don't feel the BLM was the only ones handling the mess wrong, as I see it Bundy used the hate for this publicly over reaching government to push his defiance to the court orders against him and won for now!!!
Click to expand...


Once again I agree with you Tam. Everyone here got a bit overwrought and the drama was made worse as time went on.

He should'a been paying his bills.... I gotta pay mine....you gotta pay yours!! He's no better than any rancher in any other place.



This really sets a bad precedence where mobs can bully and get their way. Not good. We all have gov't in place for a reason and they are no always wrong or bad.
Click to expand...

I read he told the Times a year ago, he follows all State laws but no Federal laws. With that attitude I'm surprised he has not been found guilty of more than just trespassing on federal lands and is not in prison verse just having his cattle seized for back grazing fees. With 900 cows on land he is not paying for, I'm guessing he is making some profit which would be subject to federal income taxes. If he fired the FEDERAL BLM as not to pay grazing fees, has he also fired the FEDERAL IRS as not to pay income taxes? :?

To those that support his story---- Again No HIDDEN AGENDA but just wondering, he claims his family has owned the land for over a hundred years but he said himself, he stopped paying the BLM grazing fees/ fired the BLM only 20 years ago. If he truly believe the land was his families why did he ever agree to pay for permits and grazing fees to the Federal Government?

You might say his story has a few holes in it that need to be explained before people blindly support it and risk losing their lives over it just because he is a rancher fighting a government agency!!!!!
 

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