Cattlemen's Group Wrangles With Its Former Allies

[Anonymous]

What's your point rancher?

Did you think you saw a contradiction?

SH (previous): "My position is that the profits made in Canada due to having more cattle than slaughter capacity were offset by the losses in U.S. plants that relied on Canadian cattle."

I didn't say the losses in the U.S. plants was ONLY DUE TO A REDUCTION IN CANADIAN CATTLE did I?

DID I?

No, you interpreted it the way you wanted to interpret it, not as it was written.

You will not catch me in a contradiction rancher and you will not beat me at word value because I don't R-CALF the issues by changing my position to fit the situation.



~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

Randy: "You have come up with nothing but a statement from one of your buddies over at Tyson who loves the way you treat the pions out in the real world."

Randy your thumbsucking packer victim mentality attitude is absolutely amazing and so pathetic at the same time. Nobody is allowed to base their decisions on facts and truth. If it doesn't share in your packer victim mentality, it's packer love or packer defense or someone's buddies over at Tyson.

It's never about truth and it's never about facts.

WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU EVER BROUGHT TO THE TABLE TO SUPPORT YOUR POSITION???

NOT A DAMN THING!

Treat the pions out in the world???? BY DOING WHAT???? BY PRESENTING THE TRUTH ON THESE ISSUES????? BY NOT JOINING YOU IN YOUR PACKER VICTIM MENTALITY AND SUCKING MY THUMB?????

HOW DARE I PRESENT THE TRUTH WHEN I COULD BE "BWAMING" PACKERS WITH YOU. Is that how it is???

I don't know anyone at Tyson other than one person who I saw speak at a convention once. I don't have any buddies at Tyson but that's the kind of crap blamers like you always pull out of your hats when someone doesn't join you in crying in your beer about packer concentration, captive supplies, and all the other conspiracy theories you packer blamers bench about.

I wish the less efficient packers that Cargill and Tyson replaced would come back into the picture for a year and pay you according to their plant's efficiencies. I'd love to see the expresion on your face when you saw your check then.

That's the whole problem with you Randy. You are so full of blame that you cannot comprehend how anyone could not share in that blame. Facts mean nothing to you. Truth means nothing to you. If it's not blaming packers, it can't possibly be true.

How do you even stand yourself?


I have come up with a hell of a lot more than a statement. I have come up with the fact that Boise and Pasco had reduced their slaughter to 35% of normal. You are too ignorant to even grasp what that means AND YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THE PACKING INDUSTRY???

Heaven help anyone who invests if you are running the business.


~SH~

 

[rancher]

I have come up with a hell of a lot more than a statement. I have come up with the fact that Boise and Pasco had reduced their slaughter to 35% of normal. You are too ignorant to even grasp what that means AND YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THE PACKING INDUSTRY???

Could part of this 35% be from lack of an export market? And if so what %?

Agman, what are your figures if you have any on the profit and loss from no cattle to too many cattle. Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

Rancher: "Could part of this 35% be from lack of an export market? And if so what %?"

The lack of an export market affects the profitability of the plant Rancher, NOT THE SLAUGHTER CAPACITY!

The Boise and Pasco plants running at 35% capacity during the closed Canadian border is related to the availablity of cattle, not from a lack of an export market.

Does the lack of an export market for the Pasco and Boise plant affect the profitability of those plants? ABSOLUTELY! A lot of those Canadian cattle were sent to Japan from Pasco.

What was the point in your last post Rancher?

Did you think you saw a contradiction?


~SH~

 

[HAY MAKER]

Rancher: "Could part of this 35% be from lack of an export market? And if so what %?"

The lack of an export market affects the profitability of the plant Rancher, NOT THE SLAUGHTER CAPACITY!

The Boise and Pasco plants running at 35% capacity during the closed Canadian border is related to the availablity of cattle, not from a lack of an export market.

Does the lack of an export market for the Pasco and Boise plant affect the profitability of those plants? ABSOLUTELY! A lot of those Canadian cattle were sent to Japan from Pasco.

What was the point in your last post Rancher?

Did you think you saw a contradiction?


~SH~

'BOOL SHEIST"the lack of an export market does affect the slaughter capacity..........Dumb ash .........good luck

 

[rancher]

The lack of an export market affects the profitability of the plant Rancher, NOT THE SLAUGHTER CAPACITY

!

Read real slow SH, if they do not have a export market to take the beef they will only slaughter what there is a market for. So less market, less slaughter, less profit.

My other posts point out you can only go by profit and loss from too many or too little cattle. You can not base the loss of high fuel, loss of export market, and cost of smr's. Sorry I wasn't clear in the other posts.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

The lack of an export market affects the profitability of the plant Rancher, NOT THE SLAUGHTER CAPACITY

!

Read real slow SH, if they do not have a export market to take the beef they will only slaughter what there is a market for. So less market, less slaughter, less profit.

My other posts point out you can only go by profit and loss from too many or too little cattle. You can not base the loss of high fuel, loss of export market, and cost of smr's. Sorry I wasn't clear in the other posts.

Hey Rancher read real slow , THEY DIDN'T HAVE A SUPPLY OF CATTLE TO KILL AS MOST OF THEIR SUPPLY CAME FROM CANADA. That was what was worrying the producers from the North west as they might lose their plants due to lack of cattlle. The US has imported the highest amounts of beef ever all the while haveing no export market. You might never export again.

 

[rancher]

Hey Rancher read real slow , THEY DIDN'T HAVE A SUPPLY OF CATTLE TO KILL AS MOST OF THEIR SUPPLY CAME FROM CANADA. That was what was worrying the producers from the North west as they might lose their plants due to lack of cattlle. The US has imported the highest amounts of beef ever all the while haveing no export market. You might never export again.

How much of Tyson's supply came from Canada? They had the supply, just the wrong prices that they wanted.

 

[Cattleman]

SH I know there were other drivers which caused record high prices. But my point is that opening up the Canadian border would not have instantly brought up the plant to 100% capacity! You stated yourself there were other problems! Therefore, the closed border caused Tyson to have additional profits in Canada, and you can not attribute All the losses in these plants running at 35% to the closed border. So maybe the Canadian profits did not offset the losses in the US, but it was still better than having an open border and running at 60% in their US plants. I don't think your conclusion disproves Randy's point, even if you have some sort of numbers to back it up. YOu need a little more rigour in your analysis.

 

[Anonymous]

Rancher: "Read real slow SH, if they do not have a export market to take the beef they will only slaughter what there is a market for. So less market, less slaughter, less profit."

They don't stop slaughtering cattle because they don't have the Japanese export market. If that was the case, how do you explain the fact that they are back to running near capacity and we still don't have our Japanese export market???

An export market is ANOTHER MARKET, not the only market.

Rancher: "How much of Tyson's supply came from Canada? They had the supply, just the wrong prices that they wanted."

Now you are taking the argument in a different direction.

You mentioned plants running at 35% capacity. That is not the rate that Tyson is running at, that is the rate that Tyson's Boise and Pasco plants were running at when the border was closed.

For those 2 plants, an average of 25% of their needs have historically came from Canada.


They had the supply, just the wrong prices you say???

Did you expect them to continue to lose money for your benefit?

Hayseed: "'BOOL SHEIST"the lack of an export market does affect the slaughter capacity..........Dumb ash"

Ok bright one, tell me why the Pasco and Boise plants have increased their capacity when we still don't have a Japanese export market?

Explain it Hayseed!

You're in over your head. Go back to posting someone else's words as your own.



~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

Cattleman: "But my point is that opening up the Canadian border would not have instantly brought up the plant to 100% capacity!"

Nobody said it would.

You accused me of saying something I never said.

Cattleman: "You stated yourself there were other problems!"

Exactly, so why would you accuse me of crediting the entire impact of Pasco and Boise on a closed Canadian border?

Those two plants previously acquired 25% of their slaughter needs from Canada.

Cattleman: "Therefore, the closed border caused Tyson to have additional profits in Canada, and you can not attribute All the losses in these plants running at 35% to the closed border."

You just contradicted yourself.

In the last statement you said, "you stated yourself there were other problems"....that's right I did......now you are back to suggesting that I attributed all the losses in these plants running at 35% to the closed border?

WHICH WAY IS IT CATTLEMAN?????

It's either one or the other!

That's why if you want to respond to a quote I made, BRING THE QUOTE because you obviously cannot remember what I wrote.

Cattleman: "So maybe the Canadian profits did not offset the losses in the US, but it was still better than having an open border and running at 60% in their US plants."

Where did you pull that 60% from????

Go back and read the posts again. Pasco and Boise are running higher than 60% now and the border is open.

Blows that theory apart doesn't it?

Cattleman: "I don't think your conclusion disproves Randy's point, even if you have some sort of numbers to back it up."

Randy's point is that Tyson and Cargill wanted the border to stay closed and he is totally wet on that. Tyson and Cargill desperately wanted the border opened. That is one of the only things that R-CULT has ever been right about.


I disagree with you that the border should be closed. We should trade freely with Canada and R-CULT needs to quit lying about the affects of Canadian live cattle imports.

It's isolationists like you that fail to realize that Canada will simply absorb that same portion of our export markets someday. That beef won't disappear from the world market but that takes a broader perspective than the inability to look past the word "import".

Cattleman: you need a little more rigour in your analysis."

You need to learn to read and quit contradicting yourself.

Either I acknowledged other factors contributing to the 35% reduction in slaughter rate or I didn't.



~SH~

 

[HAY MAKER]

Rancher: "Read real slow SH, if they do not have a export market to take the beef they will only slaughter what there is a market for. So less market, less slaughter, less profit."

They don't stop slaughtering cattle because they don't have the Japanese export market. If that was the case, how do you explain the fact that they are back to running near capacity and we still don't have our Japanese export market???

An export market is ANOTHER MARKET, not the only market.

Rancher: "How much of Tyson's supply came from Canada? They had the supply, just the wrong prices that they wanted."

Now you are taking the argument in a different direction.

You mentioned plants running at 35% capacity. That is not the rate that Tyson is running at, that is the rate that Tyson's Boise and Pasco plants were running at when the border was closed.

For those 2 plants, an average of 25% of their needs have historically came from Canada.


They had the supply, just the wrong prices you say???

Did you expect them to continue to lose money for your benefit?

Hayseed: "'BOOL SHEIST"the lack of an export market does affect the slaughter capacity..........Dumb ash"

Ok bright one, tell me why the Pasco and Boise plants have increased their capacity when we still don't have a Japanese export market?

Explain it Hayseed!

You're in over your head. Go back to posting someone else's words as your own.



~SH~

What makes you think I give a tinker's damn what tyson did.But just because IM in a good mood today I will answer your packer question,but instead of the typical sh** style spin,flip,flop twist,turn back tracking bull sh*ting chicken dance,smoke screens,I will keep it simple ......"MONEY" plain and simple...............good luck

 

[rkaiser]

SH

Quote:
Randy: "You have come up with nothing but a statement from one of your buddies over at Tyson who loves the way you treat the pions out in the real world."


Randy your thumbsucking packer victim mentality attitude is absolutely amazing and so pathetic at the same time. Nobody is allowed to base their decisions on facts and truth. If it doesn't share in your packer victim mentality, it's packer love or packer defense or someone's buddies over at Tyson.

It's never about truth and it's never about facts.

WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU EVER BROUGHT TO THE TABLE TO SUPPORT YOUR POSITION???

NOT A DAMN THING!

Treat the pions out in the world???? BY DOING WHAT???? BY PRESENTING THE TRUTH ON THESE ISSUES????? BY NOT JOINING YOU IN YOUR PACKER VICTIM MENTALITY AND SUCKING MY THUMB?????

HOW DARE I PRESENT THE TRUTH WHEN I COULD BE "BWAMING" PACKERS WITH YOU. Is that how it is???

I don't know anyone at Tyson other than one person who I saw speak at a convention once. I don't have any buddies at Tyson but that's the kind of crap blamers like you always pull out of your hats when someone doesn't join you in crying in your beer about packer concentration, captive supplies, and all the other conspiracy theories you packer blamers bench about.

I wish the less efficient packers that Cargill and Tyson replaced would come back into the picture for a year and pay you according to their plant's efficiencies. I'd love to see the expresion on your face when you saw your check then.

That's the whole problem with you Randy. You are so full of blame that you cannot comprehend how anyone could not share in that blame. Facts mean nothing to you. Truth means nothing to you. If it's not blaming packers, it can't possibly be true.

How do you even stand yourself?


I have come up with a hell of a lot more than a statement. I have come up with the fact that Boise and Pasco had reduced their slaughter to 35% of normal. You are too ignorant to even grasp what that means AND YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THE PACKING INDUSTRY???

Heaven help anyone who invests if you are running the business.


~SH~

Thought you might want to read this again SH. You're so peed off that you have reverted to even lower tactics than you have used in the past.


I'm sorry you can't get your head around reading my posts.

I'm sorry that your mind is so clouded by packer dust, that you cannot see what it is you do.

And I am certain that Cargill and Tyson are happy that they found a clown like you to fight their battles for them. Prove their righteousness, and degrade anyone who disagrees.

Have fun SH. I believe that I have brought more to this discussion than you can ever hope to bring. How could you bring any more with reigns on your brain AND a ring in your nose.

 

[Cattleman]

SH, I am in Canada, and not protectionist at all!!! You are totally missing my points!

SH can you add??? 35% + 25% = 60% Sorry I missed a step for you!

I am just trying to make sure you paint the proper picture of the true affects of opening border to Randy and crew. Yes there were many reasons why the plant was only running at 35% when the border is closed, so you can't contribute it running significantly higher now due to the open border!! Everyone new there was a higher number of cattle coming up for slaughter this fall and slaughter rates were going to rise.

Therefore stating the excess profits in Canada were not offsetting the losses in the US, is completely invalid, to argue why the big packers wanted the border open! They may have still been losing money in the US even if the border was open, maybe even losing money in Canada as well if the border never closed!!

Get the point???

 

[Tommy]

Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Dandemis

 

[Anonymous]

Cattleman: "SH can you add??? 35% + 25% = 60% Sorry I missed a step for you!"

I can add just fine.

The report that I quoted stated that these plants normally obtained between 10% to 38% of their needs from Canada with 25% being the average. I did not say 25% was added when the border recently opened did I?

Cattleman: "Yes there were many reasons why the plant was only running at 35% when the border is closed, so you can't contribute it running significantly higher now due to the open border!! Everyone new there was a higher number of cattle coming up for slaughter this fall and slaughter rates were going to rise."

Here's the total picture Cattleman:

Agman: "Pre BSE the Pasco plant was at 2100 head per day while Kuner was at 1900 head per day."

2100 + 1900 = 4000 head Pre BSE.

Agman: "When the border was closed the two plants combined were killing approximately 1400 head per day or only 35% of their combined kill levels pre-BSE."

I did not contribute that all to a closed Canadian border did I?

Agman: "They currently are approaching 1900 and 1600 head per day respectively."

That is 87.5% of normal.

Now part of the difference between your 60% and the actual 87.5% could be a slight backlog in Canadian cattle above the average of 25% and part of that could be an increased availability of domestic cattle.

Are we in agreement?


Understand something, I fully comprehended this the first time I read it and I posted other reasons besides the Canadian imports so I'm not trying to paint any picture other than a factual one.

Cattleman: "Therefore stating the excess profits in Canada were not offsetting the losses in the US, is completely invalid, to argue why the big packers wanted the border open! They may have still been losing money in the US even if the border was open, maybe even losing money in Canada as well if the border never closed!!"

Oh come on?

How can you suggest that the packers wouldn't want the border opened to keep their NW plants running closer to capacity? Good grief!

You think the packers would rather run at 35% in the NW and have to invest in expanding slaughter capacity in Canada to keep up with the cattle up there than have everything closer to normal????

Cargill and Tyson took their profits in Canada and invested part of it in expanding slaughter capacity in Canada WHILE THEY WERE LOSING MONEY IN THE U.S. and you think that was a better option?

GIVE ME A BREAK!


This is so common sense. Cargill and Tyson were just as disgusted with R-CULT's antics as most Canadian producers and most forward thinking U.S. producers.

Randy is totally wrong on his position, TOTALLY!

Why would Tyson take the position they took if they wanted the opposite?

Does that make sense in your world?

Randy is wrong and that is all there is to it.


~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

Randy: "I believe that I have brought more to this discussion than you can ever hope to bring."

Ah......ok?

You admitted that you didn't have anything to support your position, you brought that.

You brought nothing else to support your position and you brought nothing to contradict anything I have stated.

Keep telling yourself that you brought more to this discussion than I can ever hope to. Eventually you'll have yourself convinced of that like you've convinced yourself that Tyson and Cargill wanted the border to remain closed.


Readers, check this converstation out......

Hayseed (previous): "'BOOL SHEIST"the lack of an export market does affect the slaughter capacity..........Dumb ash"

SH (in response): "Ok bright one, tell me why the Pasco and Boise plants have increased their capacity when we still don't have a Japanese export market?

Hayseed: "What makes you think I give a tinker's damn what tyson did.But just because IM in a good mood today I will answer your packer question,but instead of the typical sh** style spin,flip,flop twist,turn back tracking bull sh*ting chicken dance,smoke screens,I will keep it simple ......"MONEY" plain and simple..............."

"MONEY" explains why Pasco and Boise have increased their slaughter capacity when we don't have a Japanese export market to explain your statement that the lack of an export market does affect the slaughter capacity????

I hope that made sense to you Hayseed!



~SH~

 

[rkaiser]

Sorry SH, if Randy is wrong Randy is wrong, is all you can come up with you're pretty pathetic.

You say the plants in America were losing money on every head. Why would they want to lose more on more cattle coming in from Canada?

Randy is right SH, Tyson and Cargill could not give a rats a%% if the border was open. They were doing just fine with a closed border.

I love the way you keep dodging the proof you supposedly have to support your fairy tale. "Phone Tyson" SH says :lol: What a joke.

Funny how you tried to shake me off woth personal cracks about management. If you were somehow to land a job with Cargill and Tyson, they could never even bring you near the front office. A puppet like you only belongs in front of the media, supporting every move made, but never waking up to the big business picture Cargill, Tyson, or Canadian Celtic have in mind.

Wake up SH. Tyson and Cargill made gains on every front by the border being closed.

 

[Anonymous]

I love the way you keep dodging the proof you supposedly have to support your fairy tale. "Phone Tyson" SH says :lol: What a joke.

Randy you're being a little tough on ol SH..---Doubting his credibility :???: I'm sure he made the call- and the way his mind works when he thought he was talking to John Tyson, he was actually talking to Tijuana Juan - who was in between cleaning the executive mens room and the executive ladies room- and that probably gave him a much deeper insight into the beef industry than he's had before..... :wink: :lol: :lol:

 

[Tam]

Randy tell us how could they have made gains on every front when they said in their 2004 fiscal report that their losses in the US plants were only partically offset by the profits in the Lakeside plant in Canada? Doesn't that mean they lost on at least the US front? Now tell us Randy if you were lossing on one front, a front that has ten plants, and one of ways to stop or at least cut the losses was to increase the available supply of cattle by supporting the border openning, would you stand in the way? Remember Randy the plant in Canada is not making enough to cover the losses in the US plants. Can you really believe that Tyson was against the border opening because of the profit from one plant when their US plants were loosing money? :roll: