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Do you get calls like this?

Brad S said:
I sold a nice little yellow sheeted bay gelding head horse to a local townie roper for $2500. Bay was honest and sound and had some speed. The buyer was a USTRCA 4 on the old points system, but he wasn't a horseman or a tight roper. The little bay fit the buyer well enough that they won about $5000 in several little ropings - which is more than he'd ever won.

After a month and a half the little bay started a bad limp on left front. The buyer called and asked what we should do. I said let's vet him and see what we have. the vet took pictures and said a sesmoid injuer (I think it was sesmoid). Anyway the vet said turn him out 6 weeks and get another look - was sure a rest would fix him.

less than a week later I see the bay and his owner at a roping. Bay was on the float. I ask the buyer what was up, and he brazenly sez, "I wanna rope, if I burn him up they make more." I said why don't you buy another horse and keep 2 arround. He thought I was just trying to sell another horse.

Yes, he ruined the bay in another month. Then he called me to guarantee the horse. I was way beyond mad. I told him he wasn't ever going to get another horse from me. So I hear he's on another rope horse making the scene telling everyone what a sorry sob I am. The little bay just fit the guy and they worked well togather. he never since sniffed the success he had with the bay, and that was 10 yers ago.
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Brad,

That's an instance where it should be legal to use guns and fists....

PPRM
 
IL Rancher said:
Gosh, I read these and I get nervous about horse searching... I am willing to admit that I know little of horses. I grew up taking care of them for my dad when he was out of town or sick but I was kicked as a child and was very... hesistant for a long time around them so I never rode when until I was 18 or so (Well, aside from when I "rode" with someone when I was 3)... Ever since getting cows and such I have pondered the idea of horses as well. Not to breed but for working the cattle and for moving them from one pasture to another...

So, what is your advice for a neophyte such as myself? I saw RoperAB say something about reading a book, wel heck, I have horse books but are there some in particular that you guys recommend? I have started searching for someone who gives western lessons beyond just pleasure riding and have had some luck, just need to call them.. How long should one ride before making the plunge into buying a horse.. I understand the don't buy a 4 year old but what is the right age for someone without a lot of experience. 8, 12, 16? What? Probably not a magic age as much as the maturity of the horse matching the experience/needs of the rider...

So, tell me, how off base am I in thinking that what I should do is ride for about 4-6 months on a weekly or twice a week basis taking lessons (Which will cost a small fortune but that is okay because it will be money well spent if I can find the right teacher) and than start looking for a horse that will work for me. Than. after getting that horse go to a trainer with him/her for a while longer until I get comfy with the horse? Does this make sense? Eventually we would probably have several horses since there is more than one person here but I figure start out slow so I don't have a bigger wreck than needed...
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If you bought horse from me, you'de ride it a few times with me around. make sure it fit you.....I can teach you in 20 minutes what most people don't learn in 20 years. You would never take the horse home until I felt it was going to be a good fit. Any followups questions/lessons are free of charge. if I think you are unteachable, you won't own the horse. I will also teach you about nutrition and vaccinations/worming.....

I want it to be a good experience for both of you. I don't own enough horses that I have to sell any. The horses i have sold recently are to people that borrowed them for a few trail rides. They fell in love wioth them. I considered them green (Anything you can't do any job on the ranch and then go win a Saturday night roping on is green to me). These people said they were the most broke horses they have ever been around.

I have a niece that fancied being a horseman one summer. 3 lessons and she was better than 80% of the folks riding....Unfortunately, she didn't cotton to the work part of owning a horse. Loved the idea bettter than the reality I guess,


PPRM
 
RoperAB said:
Had a great day yesterday.
Sold my barrel prospect. Cash deal and she did not dicker on the price.
Mad a dash to Cow Town for the Ian Tyson concert. At the gates of Heritage park they were talking money from people to get into the park.
When we got to the gate the girl winked at me and told us to go through without paying what would have been close to $40 for my family.
We got there one minute before he started singing. The place was packed with people standing outside of the tent trying to get a peek of the concert.
For the heck of it we sqeezed inside to try to find seats that we figgured would be all taken. Well just as we got up there, 4 people seen us and said they had to leave and we could have their seats!
Ian put on a great show. Lots of his older songs like Jaquima to Freno. Faster Horses he even did an encore because of the standing ovation. He finished with your song "Over The Rainbow".
About IllRanchers question
Im going to go against the grain here. You dont learn from the good horses. You learn from the bad ones.
If you dont ride the bad ones you will never be able to appreciate the good ones.
The easy and expensive way to achieve average horsemanship is to go out and buy a really well trained horse and hire a trainer but that alone wont get you very far.
Ill Rancher just to let you know what you are getting into. If you were to just quit everything else and totally comit yourself to becoming a horseman. If you did this 5 days a week for about three years you would only then be to the point where you realized how much you have to learn about horses. It would take three years of riding 5 days a week, in all kinds of weather and riding despite being injured and or scared,just to get to the point that you were not a so called green rider. There is no end to horsemanship. You have to enjoy the journey.
One or two books or training programs are just little pieces of the puzzle. You dont need money to become a horseman.
All that is needed is heart and desire. If you have this I will help you any way I can.
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Roper,

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I have a gelding that is a sharp looker I just sold. I was offered $10,000 for him as a two Year Old. But I didn't want to be divorced, so I kept him. The guy was an old PRCA Calf Roper/Bulldogger and he woulda been tested. Turns out he has a shoulder ligament that will never allow him to be a usin horse. He is Dog Gentle.....OK for pleasure and some trail, but not a usin horse....So I sold him for $3500 to a friend.

The guys niece had bought a $1,500 horse by a local "Trainer"...."trainer" is another word for trader in my book. Well, she was dumoed and had $5,000 in hospital bills.....

Do I wish I'd sold the horse when he was 2...Not at all....He will have a good life and not be tore up. He was a pleasre to have, he owes me nothing.....

You are totally right on becoming a horeman. but there's nothing wrong with finding a horse you just get along with. I tell kids if they want to be horsemen, they must swing thier legs over a bunch of horses of different sizes and shapes to get a better feel. A horseman can win on a lot of different horses, nothing wrong with enjoying winning on just one.....It is a matter of what you desire and have time for,

PPRM

PPRM
 
Well, PPRM, you just shot to the top of the heap in my book.
Awesome that you feel that way. We do too. We had a great
heading horse we were offered a lot of money for, and believe me
we could certainly have used the money at the time. We didn't sell
him and we managed to get by. The horse died at 27 years of age.
He was a great one and we are glad we owned him til the day he
died. He would have been used up way before then, had we sold
him for a heading horse. He had a much better life with us, and
we appreciated him to the end. It just so happens he was a direct
grandson of Leo. He was by Buffalo Wooten by Leo.

Our daughter got a rodeo scholarship on him, Mr. FH team roped on him, I rode him on the ranch and our grandson learned to ride on him.
How could you price a horse like that?

We have found that horses that don't fit one thing, will sure fit another.
We recently sold a 7 year old gelding that was the pitts as a ranch horse. He went to a young man that is a good roper and he is tickled to death with him. The horse is coming along very well and everyone is happy.
That is what makes a great horse deal.

I really feel like we are responsible for who we sell our horses to.
We just can't sell one to someone I don't feel right about.
Glad to know there are others out there that are the same way.
 
Well folks, I am not an idiot so I hope I am teachable when it comes to horses. Why do I want a horse/horses.

I wanted a horse when I was 10 years old probably. MY brother was two years older than me and when he was about 11 or 12 my folks offered to get him lessons and maybe a horse if he was interested and he flat out said no. But the time I hit the magic age my dad had been bucked doing a jump and came to the realiztion that he didn't want horses anymore. Well, I asked once or twice and the folks said that I didn't have the time for it with everything else I was doing.. they were probably right but it still bugs me.

When I moved out to this place 6 years ago now, my wife and I talked about horses. We actually do have one but she is older and has significant injuries to her rear legs. She is no longer a rider anymore basically as the added weight of tack and my 190 pounds would not be a good match. Well, with a lot of bute maybe but we are letting her enjoy her old age in semi retirment. We feed her, worm her, give her vaccinations and she gets to roll around in the dust, play with her sheep and intimidate any coyote that comes into the pasture looking for a lamb snack. We got her for free from a neighbor whose daughter can no longer take care of/want to take care. Oh well... As my vet says everytime she sees her, she is fat and happy.

My wife is a horse lover, started riding when she was 4, did the whole bareback thing and is just real good with them. We started thinking about it 4 years ago and than she got pregnant and well, everything went on the backburner for a while. 2 years ago we started looking again. I want horses, I wish I could say "why" but they are something I have wanted basically since I was a kid. Now, I actually can make the decisions darn it... Well, we were going to move so we put it on hold again (Especially considering the one farm we really looked hard at would have come with saddle horses and other horses too as it iwas a horse and cattle ranch). ..Well that blew up but my wife was pregnant again. Well, I finally am going to do it. Will it work out? I think it will. I just need to start somehow and was looking for advice. I have gotten a lot of good advice on this site and have taken it to heart. I don't worry too much about giving up when something hurts me. If I did I would have gotten out of cows after 3 months when the first cow put me through a fence. Or when one chased me over a fence (that one was only bred to EXT, the darn embryo made it a mean cow :wink: ). We shall see, I am giving a lady a call tomorrow, I need to ride for a while and see if I can learn. I won't have the money for a horse for a few months so I am in no real hurry.

Again folks, thanks for all the help, if I am being a moran I would like to know... Of course, the neighbor with the quads thinks I am nuts... Oh well, I think he is too for how much he feeds his cows.
 
IL Rancher, your whole post is worthy of applause!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Some of us were born loving horses. No rhyme nor reason to it.
Since you wife knows about horses, you will be fine. (Just be
sure and listen to what she says...) :wink: :shock: :P
 
Bill Dorance has a book called Natural Horsemanship. Im thinking this is a good place to start.
A fairly easy, safe, semi cheap way to get started would be Pat Parelli. He has a video coaching course that is designed so that it is easy for a beginner to follow safely at home.
This should keep you busy for a while.
Just dont get to wrapped up in this "Natural" stuff. After you go through Parellies levels 1,2 and three is when your about to the stage where your not really green anymore.
There is tons to learn after this! Dont become a Parelli bot or one of these "Natural fanatics" that think they are ready for the Olymipics because they think its magic that they are riding a horse in a halter!
Please dont become one of these types that think that anybody who isnt calling himself "natural " is practicing bad horsemanship.
LOLs as you can tell "Natural" is a word that im getting pretty sick of.
 
Those guru dejures that will ride anybody's broncs to show their savy and prove their methods amuse me. I don't fault them for aproaching training with a different mindset, but I'd like to test their training with some real broncs I've known.
 
Ohhh, don't underestimate them.

I don't know if you know it or not, but Pat Parelli started out riding broncs and he was good at it. Same with Curt Pate. Buck Brannaman worked for a big ranch and he rode plenty of tough horses.

Just cuz they want to do it this way, doesn't mean they couldn't do it
another way.

It is my opinion that they want to keep people interested in horses and
they want to keep it safe. This way is much safer for more people.
I have an opinion that not everyone that owns horses wants to RIDE them. Some just want to have them, pet them, care for them. Pat Parellli gives those people something to do with their horses. They can go
just as far as they wish. JMHO
 
That Bill Dorance book is called true horsemanship through feel.
I really like Buck Brannaman. I dont put him in the same class as these other "naturals".
The problem with Buck is I think a green rider will have trouble following his program.
Parelli is more about teaching horse sense to a green rider.
Buck is more about training the horse.
It really annoys me the way some <Parelli is the worst of them>of these so called natural horse whisperers promote themselves. What annoys me even more are some of their students.
As far as the actual training program I dont like the way Parelli teaches picking up the leads. He is teaching the horse to drop its shoulder which is something that will only have to be taught out of the horse later on.
I also think he is doing the FLCs way to early. I also dont like the way he does the FLCs by pushing the horse off balance.
Now I have heard that he has changed his program <updated it> so maybe he does this stuff different now?
 
Faster horses said:
Ohhh, don't underestimate them.

I don't know if you know it or not, but Pat Parelli started out riding broncs and he was good at it. Same with Curt Pate. Buck Brannaman worked for a big ranch and he rode plenty of tough horses.

Just cuz they want to do it this way, doesn't mean they couldn't do it
another way.

It is my opinion that they want to keep people interested in horses and
they want to keep it safe. This way is much safer for more people.
I have an opinion that not everyone that owns horses wants to RIDE them. Some just want to have them, pet them, care for them. Pat Parellli gives those people something to do with their horses. They can go
just as far as they wish. JMHO
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Buck Brannaman rodeoed and cowboyed as well. Buck can ride.
I like the way he starts colts. I have a long discontinued 5 Masters tape of his. I really like the way he starts colts in this tape. I dont know how he does it in his other tapes? But im thinking the way he does it in that 5 Masters tape would be way beyond a beginner.
 
We personally know Curt Pate and Buck Brannaman. It is kind of "we knew them when"... :wink:

We were looking at horses at Kyd Cattle Company out of Three Forks, Mt. a loooooooong time back. Buck was one of the hands. He just broke horses until they brought Ray Hunt in. That's when Buck got his start in how he trains horses now. He was a good student. I can't remember who the ranch manager was that brought in Ray. It may have been Larry Grantier, but again, I'm not sure.

Our horseman friend, who has attended some of Buck's clinics, says Buck means so much to the horses that one day he was working a particular tough stallion. When he finished, he put the stallion in an adjoining pen and started to work with another student at the clinic. After a bit, the stud left where he was standing and was messing around. All Buck did was LOOK at the stud and he went back and stood right where Buck put him. And he stayed there. Buck never left the student in the arena that he was working with.
Oh, yea, I think he is among the very best. His attitude with people has caused him some problems at times. I haven't heard how he is lately. Ray Hunt went through that as well. It would be hard telling the same things to different faces over and over. Same questions just a different place.

Have you read Buck's book, "The Faraway Horses"? It is an awesome read. One of my very favorites. A classic. He talks of his terrible childhood, but suffering as he did is what helped him have his special understanding with horses. IMO
 
A good friend of Curt's is Bob Blackwell. We did a climic in Yakima we did get handed a rotten 4 or 5 year old. We shoulda known it was a setup. every horse trader in the country showed up. Find out later that onme of the better locals (who is prettyy good) had gotten hurt by this horse.....Nobody else wanted him...The traders were there to see a wreck...


It was a long deal, but Bob, pretty well got the horse to free up and accept Bob wasn't going to put up with any foolisheness and wasn't there to hurt him...Bob was able to climb on the horse, but at that point they were both done and anything more woulda meant going backwards...Bob and Curt are pretty similar, but different in looks, LOL....

Bob gave the horse a chance to not get canned.....He also earned the respect of all of those guys. Bob sells no gimmics, magic sticks or the like....If you pay atterntion, he will teach anyone a ton.....

There are a wide variety of these clinicians.....My problem is it seems to encourage beginners that need that need to enjoy a broke horse to try starting colts...

PPRM
 
Yes FH I have read his book. Its a good read. Yes a lot of people find Buck a little salty. I dont.
Teaching people or putting up with students can be very annoying.
He has another book out called if I remember right "Believe". Have you read it?
 
PPRM, you nailed it. Yep, too many think they can start their own colts.
I gotta hand it to many of the clinicians, they talk alot about safety.
I heard Pat Parelli really get after a novice lady that kept looking down at her horses mane all the time. He really was stressing to her that was a dangerous thing to do. She needed to be more aware of where she was. Kinda hurt the ladies feelings, I think, but the rest of the folks really understood where he was coming from.

Roper AB, I have read "Believe." I didn't care for it. Maybe I wasn't ready for it mentally, but it just didn't draw me in like "The Faraway Horses" did.
"Believe" seemed to me to be a book advertising Buck Brannnaman.
It is stories from people who Buck helped their horses, only it's done a
little too braggy, if you know what I mean. At least that was my take on it. Seems like I got tired of it, before I finished it. Not so, with "The Faraway Horses." I couldn't put it down.

I also have Pat Parelli's "Raise your hand if you love horses." It's good.
He had his own trials and tribulations. He wasn't born into a horse family.
He didn't suffer like Buck did, he had good parents, they just weren't horse people. So despite everything, Pat Parelli is a self-made horseman.
He gives certain individuals credit for helping him throughout his life. Makes for good reading.
 

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