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fence corners

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Soapweed said:
TSR said:
Soapweed said:
Our method of preference is the H way, but be sure to put the horizontal brace up high between the two posts. If you don't, there is a lot of pressue on the corner post above the horizontal pipe or post. I like to just have the top wire of the fence above the brace and the other three or four wires below the brace. We then put in a "dead-man" about three feet beyond the main corner post. The hole is then tapered so that the brace wires from the deadman to the top of the far corner post run in a straight line. There is no need to make an "X" with brace wires, because the pull is only from one direction anyway. One side of the X is always loose because it does no good. The corner posts should be at least 5" x 8'. Corners made out of just regular 3' or 3 1/2" posts are too wimpy for the strain that is put on them.
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Soap I have pulled H braces from 2 directions if they are in the middle of the fence.
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I realize that if a person is fencing along a highway, there are certain specifications that must be met. An H brace every quarter mile whether there is a gate or not, would be an example of these "bureaucratic" specifications. As for the H brace actually doing any good, it doesn't. Just a single post works just as well, because when the fence is all done, there would be equal pressure from both sides. No brace or X wires would be needed. It is the same way if you are trying to build a corner in the middle of a Y three-way fence. No braces are needed. One single post in the middle handles all the wires pulling in three different directions.
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Might as well do it right.double H at the corners.
Soap you have to remember if someone drives through the fence a H brace every 80 rods will save a lot of loose fence.In that case you need a X brace wire because the strain could come from either direction.
 
I see lot's of differnt ways in lots of differnt places to build fence,you could'nt hire me to build fence unless it was pipe and T posts.
If Im gonna spend the time it takes to drill holes in this TX Hill country rock,they aint no post gonna go in that hole,replaced too many of these treated posts...............good luck
 
HAYMAKER I'll hire you to fence my river pasture with pipe! I'll even let you carry those pipe up and down the coullee hills. Right now some of my wire is stapled to trees as for being straight ...ya right.
 
greg said:
HAYMAKER I'll hire you to fence my river pasture with pipe! I'll even let you carry those pipe up and down the coullee hills. Right now some of my wire is stapled to trees as for being straight ...ya right.
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Im posting about pasture fence,low land prone to flood including creek & river bottoms are usually fenced with 3 wire,and a good charger,its a waste of time trying to build good tight fence in a area prone to flooding,unless you need some fence building experience,because around here you will be replaceing it every spring..................good luck
 
This string provided a lot of good comments and suggestions.

We just completed building about 80 miles of fence. Our neighbor has a fencing business and a fedncing macine that does good work.

We buy used utility poles and cut them up into 9 foot posts. (Only if they are creosoted. These are set into the ground 5 feet and the hole filled with concrete. We have about half of our soil very sandy, the other half clay. The only posts we have that have moved are the ones they put in before I made them add the concrete.

Builder put one gate in the wrong place. We tiore it out and moved it. It was not easy!! Had to drill a four foot hole next to the post, shove it with a loader and lift it out with a bucket. Where we put it back in, the hole had about a foot of water in it, but the concrete took care of that.
 
Hmmmmmm...........I thot they dug post holes deep in Texas just in case there might be oil, LOL,


PPRM
 
Northern Rancher said:
PROPERLY treated posts will last a very long time-Doc if I moved my fences out of the muskkeg in places I wouldn't have a fence. I guess if you need to fence a line through a slough I'd use electric fence. I got the neighbors going now-my home quarter has an old road bed cutting the yard off it is about a quarter mile curve-were building new fence along it right now-7' posts-6 smooth wires-3 hot-3 ground- but we moved the fence in 30 feet so it runs straight instead of around the curve-i'm gong to run my mares or bucking bulls in that strip. It does two things it solves the curve problem and will keep trees from hitting my main fence. Sure has the neighbors talking lol.
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NR- I guess it all comes down to 'local knowledge'. You ranch 1000 miles North of the type of environment that I relate to, and muskeg is a 'whole 'nother' thing compared to the backwater areas of a Tributary to the Missouri River (slough), with which I am familiar. And in the instance whereby I suggested moving the fence up to higher firm ground, I was referring to the fence going PARALLEL to a long slough - NOT across it at right angles.

When it is all said and done - the important factors to consider regarding fencing should be - - If the fence does the job it is supposed to do and lasts for as long as you want it to - - you have been successful!

DOC HARRIS
 
Cowsense that fence is to keep my neighbors buffalo out lol. Had a big old bull running my cows during calving time-he had fresh backstrap that night lol. I did lose two slipped calves over the deal.
 
A corner post:
The entire over turning force on a corner post is in the direction of the fence if you only have fence pulling in one direction. In this case, the "N" design with the top of the diagonal brace on the corner post and the bottom of the diagonal on the second post is the stronger. The reason for this is the force traveling down the diagonal intersects the second post at ground line and thus the force is not multiplied by the length of the second post acting as a moment arm.
However if you have fence running past your corner post, or you plan to have a gate on the post, I prefer the "H" design with crossed twisted wires. This design allows the corner to take force in both directions in the plane of the fence.
In the event the corner is a 90-degree corner, you will need an "N "going both ways. I have seen this design fail with the corner post leaning at an angle that bisects the 90-degree fence angle. So another "N" bisecting the fence angle and not in the plane of either fence will help. In this case, the second post in the "N" need only stick out of the ground a short distance to hold the bottom of the diagonal.
Remember, the diagonal of an 'N' and the horizontal of the "H" and designed to take compression loads and the twisted wires carry the tension loads.
 
No one mentioned has anything about a design I saw in the University of Idaho's Cow/Calf Encyclopedia.

They show a cornerpost (which surely must be set in concrete) and a brace like an "N" post. Then they have another brace laying next to the ground. It is fastened securely to both the cornere post and the "N" brace.
A flat rock or a bit of concrete is put on the ground where the braces come together.

When tension is applied to the post, the braces redirect the force down on the junction of the two braces.

I never figured out why someone discovered this until I nolticed some places where the fence is on almost solid rock. Only one hole to dig. I have never seen one of these in use.
 
Having an "H" built properly will transfer all the pull to the bottom of both post. So basically it has to pull the whole thing trough the ground instead of leaning it.
 
I have enjoyed learning abiut more than fence corners here. I thought the double H was over kill but we get an average of 39 inches of rain a year here - - - different than 70 inches in a season!

So I guess there is no single right way. When you want to do something right the right way is what works in the enviroment you are working in.
 
When I was a kid we didn't use "H"'s or "N"'s. We would cut down a "Mockorange" (Osage Orange or Bois D'arc) tree, cut the top out and leave about 3 feet of the limbs still on it. We would then dig a big hole (sometimes 6-7 feet in diameter and 5-6 feet deep) turn what was left of the tree upside down, stick it in the hole, cover it up, and pack the dirt.

Most of them are still being used. They are anywhere from 40-50 years old.
 
Forgot to mention the deadman post.

In our older fences, especially gates, oldtimers would put a deadman post in the gate, usually one to each side and run several loops of wire to the corner post.

Kept the corner post straight up, but made you real careful walking through a gate where the grass or weeds hide the wire coming up out of the ground. When we replaced them with "H" posts, we just cut the wires off at ground level - they couldn't be pulled up.
 
I'm repeating most guys here, but I agree with the "H" posts and the wire tied from the top of the brace post back to the bottom of the corner. The brace will be in compression, as the fence tries to pull the corner post over, the force which will be conteraced by the twisted wire back to the base of the corner. Most gov't AG engineering sites recommend this design, and if you take the time to sketch out the tension/compression free diagrams on each post it is self explanatory. Even thest corners are not worth a damn unless your corner and brace post line up EXACTLY with the rest of your fence. If it is off just a bit, you are going to lose your corner as the forces are not balanced, and a moment will occur. SInce this is actually impossible to get perfect , people will compensate and use large diameter and long posts for the corners. What I am finding now is that it is cheaper for me to buy a 12' length of 6" to 8" pipe and drive it into the ground 6 to 7 feet - no bracing required. The bearing area seems adequate for my soil type, and I believe th $50 cost for the corner is comparible to the cost of materials and time in making the wooden braced corners. Not to mention you don't have to worry about being exactly straight and it will last longer than 20 years. (THe steel corner makes a hell of a ground as well)
 
Mike said:
When I was a kid we didn't use "H"'s or "N"'s. We would cut down a "Mockorange" (Osage Orange or Bois D'arc) tree, cut the top out and leave about 3 feet of the limbs still on it. We would then dig a big hole (sometimes 6-7 feet in diameter and 5-6 feet deep) turn what was left of the tree upside down, stick it in the hole, cover it up, and pack the dirt.

Most of them are still being used. They are anywhere from 40-50 years old.
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When I was a kid (! ) we also used Hedge Posts (Osage Orange) when we could find them AND afford them! To try to drive a staple in one of those suckers was worth learning a few new words! :shock: They made Oak posts look like marshmallows! :mad: You ended up drilling a couple of "starter" holes and then watch out for your fingers! And you didn't drill the holes with 'electric drills' either. Do any of you younger guys know what a 'brace and bit' is? I won't say those were the 'good ol' days' because they weren't! The equipment available for use today makes 'staying down on the Ranch' a lot easier to swallow! And the high quality of the cattle helps also.

DOC HARRIS
 
We also have bois d'ark trees here, only time you can easily drive a staple or nail in one of them posts is when it's still green. After that you might as well forget it. We dont make a habit of usin em for fence posts tho, as DOC stated...makes for learnin new words....and when someone's standin around with hammers and other sharp objects of the fence buildin trade......dont need none of that :lol: :lol: :lol:

While we are on the subject of the bois d'ark....or osage oranges. Have any of you seen what one looks like that's been sliced into 1/4 inch slices and put in the oven and dried slowly at about 200 degrees for 3 or 4 hours?

They turn a really neat burgandy color and the edges curl up. Look like a flower. I've seen em used in dried flower arrangements. Perdy nifty lookin. BTW that's the only use I've seen for them daggum thangs lol
 
Juan said:
Soapweed said:
TSR said:
Soap I have pulled H braces from 2 directions if they are in the middle of the fence.
Click to expand...

I realize that if a person is fencing along a highway, there are certain specifications that must be met. An H brace every quarter mile whether there is a gate or not, would be an example of these "bureaucratic" specifications. As for the H brace actually doing any good, it doesn't. Just a single post works just as well, because when the fence is all done, there would be equal pressure from both sides. No brace or X wires would be needed. It is the same way if you are trying to build a corner in the middle of a Y three-way fence. No braces are needed. One single post in the middle handles all the wires pulling in three different directions.
Click to expand...
Might as well do it right.double H at the corners.
Soap you have to remember if someone drives through the fence a H brace every 80 rods will save a lot of loose fence.In that case you need a X brace wire because the strain could come from either direction.
Click to expand...

But Juan, I thought a major advantage of running Herefords was that super good "black-proof" fences aren't needed. :wink: :)
 

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