HMW (gay rights)
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Maple Leaf Angus
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You have provided a lot of material, R2. Ya musta been up all night!
However, you have not told us how those findings relate to us today. You are correct in saying that very often, people are guilty of following someone's interpretation of what is given in Scripture. And just as you have demonstrated inthe quotations you have given us, many people take a bunch of verses from here and there and say, "See, everybody, this is what the Bible says".
The trouble with doing that is we are taking our selections and trying to apply them outside of the context in which they were given.
Another example of this would be to take the verse, "And Judas went out and hanged himself" followed by the words of JESUS HIMSELF, "go and do likewise" and then "What you do, do quickly"!
There you have a perfect case for suicide, supported entirely by Scripture and even the words of Jesus, whom most of us hold in high regard. Does that make it a good idea? Obviously not. Because I took a bunch of random verses and tried to make a case for something that was never intended to be taken from them
I think the same thng arises frequently in the "Theology" that most people have, and as some have done in this thread.
In order to understand what any passage in the Bible means, you must examine how it fits, or works, first within its immediate context, then within the surrounding context, then how it relates to the genre of its kind, and finally, how that set or genre fits in with the overall theme of the Bible.
Because, the Bible is not just a collection of wise people's writings, it is a story that presents a message in relatively (although not perfect) chronological order. Each part has meaning only as it fits with the rest of the story.
Although this may sound like something that only priests, pastors and theologians do, I believe that if I am a disciple of Christ (who is the central figure of the Book) it is my responsibility to know what He expects of me and how I must live my life on this earth. That will include some work to understand the Word ( the expression of God) that has been provided for me.
Do you believe that there is a judgment day coming? I do. And I also believe that when I stand before Him on that day, it just ain't gonna cut it for me to say "well, the preacher said" or the bishop said" or "R2 or HMW said . . ."
I think He would say "Can't you read, could you not hear the Spirit speaking . . .?"
What you posted is typical of the effort that many of us put into understanding the Bible. (I couldn't help but notice that you went a little broader than the Bible for a source for some your material, but that's okay. It's another thing we're good at, bringing in some hermeneutical material!)
We either go to the Bible to get God's direction for our lives, OR to justify/condemn a certain position.
And too often I/we fail to get the whole message that it intends to bring to us. God wants to restore each one of us (through the work of Jesus Christ) to the kind of fellowship that Adam and Eve enjoyed with Him at the Creation. If we could only grasp that idea, I think that we would take a whole different approach to the Bible and how we read it.
Indeed, I think we couldn't get enough of it!
Whoa, now I'm all worn out and it's not even past breakfast time!
However, you have not told us how those findings relate to us today. You are correct in saying that very often, people are guilty of following someone's interpretation of what is given in Scripture. And just as you have demonstrated inthe quotations you have given us, many people take a bunch of verses from here and there and say, "See, everybody, this is what the Bible says".
The trouble with doing that is we are taking our selections and trying to apply them outside of the context in which they were given.
Another example of this would be to take the verse, "And Judas went out and hanged himself" followed by the words of JESUS HIMSELF, "go and do likewise" and then "What you do, do quickly"!
There you have a perfect case for suicide, supported entirely by Scripture and even the words of Jesus, whom most of us hold in high regard. Does that make it a good idea? Obviously not. Because I took a bunch of random verses and tried to make a case for something that was never intended to be taken from them
I think the same thng arises frequently in the "Theology" that most people have, and as some have done in this thread.
In order to understand what any passage in the Bible means, you must examine how it fits, or works, first within its immediate context, then within the surrounding context, then how it relates to the genre of its kind, and finally, how that set or genre fits in with the overall theme of the Bible.
Because, the Bible is not just a collection of wise people's writings, it is a story that presents a message in relatively (although not perfect) chronological order. Each part has meaning only as it fits with the rest of the story.
Although this may sound like something that only priests, pastors and theologians do, I believe that if I am a disciple of Christ (who is the central figure of the Book) it is my responsibility to know what He expects of me and how I must live my life on this earth. That will include some work to understand the Word ( the expression of God) that has been provided for me.
Do you believe that there is a judgment day coming? I do. And I also believe that when I stand before Him on that day, it just ain't gonna cut it for me to say "well, the preacher said" or the bishop said" or "R2 or HMW said . . ."
I think He would say "Can't you read, could you not hear the Spirit speaking . . .?"
What you posted is typical of the effort that many of us put into understanding the Bible. (I couldn't help but notice that you went a little broader than the Bible for a source for some your material, but that's okay. It's another thing we're good at, bringing in some hermeneutical material!)
We either go to the Bible to get God's direction for our lives, OR to justify/condemn a certain position.
And too often I/we fail to get the whole message that it intends to bring to us. God wants to restore each one of us (through the work of Jesus Christ) to the kind of fellowship that Adam and Eve enjoyed with Him at the Creation. If we could only grasp that idea, I think that we would take a whole different approach to the Bible and how we read it.
Indeed, I think we couldn't get enough of it!
Whoa, now I'm all worn out and it's not even past breakfast time!
katrina
Well-known member
EXCELLANT POST SOAPWEED...It's either black or white, right or wrong. Once you get into that gray area you're done for and will fall for anything. Thus spiral down to having no backbone to stand up for what is right. Homosexuality is wrong....All the other points and perspectives are nothing but bullshit.
katrina
Well-known member
That's your opionion........ And that's okay....
theHiredMansWife
Well-known member
Yeah, thanks Soapweed, you also answered MLA's question about adultery. 
As for the rest of the list, MLA, I take it you don't know too many denominations outside your own, eh?
And I'm hardly a closet Methodist. I'm 100% proud to be a Methodist (you do know George W is Methodist, right?)
So far as drinking, dancing, cards, jewelry, etc. Do you think denominations like Seventh Day Adventist just made them up for fun?
Oh, and there's another good one:
Sabbath. No where in the Bible does it say anything about going to church on Sunday. Sabbath is Saturday. A Commandment, no less.
But I assume by your post that even when I post the references, you're just going to dismiss them. So I'll save myself the hassle since you'll just be supporting my point:
The Bible is a personal compass and as such speaks to different people in different ways. There is a reason we have however many different denominations.
Apparently my point still stands:
If you don't want to outlaw these things, it would seem you're picking and choosing which parts of the Bible you want to follow...
Is that a lack of conviction or self-discipline? Perhaps you have loose morals?
As for the rest of the list, MLA, I take it you don't know too many denominations outside your own, eh?
And I'm hardly a closet Methodist. I'm 100% proud to be a Methodist (you do know George W is Methodist, right?)
So far as drinking, dancing, cards, jewelry, etc. Do you think denominations like Seventh Day Adventist just made them up for fun?
Oh, and there's another good one:
Sabbath. No where in the Bible does it say anything about going to church on Sunday. Sabbath is Saturday. A Commandment, no less.
But I assume by your post that even when I post the references, you're just going to dismiss them. So I'll save myself the hassle since you'll just be supporting my point:
The Bible is a personal compass and as such speaks to different people in different ways. There is a reason we have however many different denominations.
I would agree. But I notice no where in there did you say anything about the importance of judging others or denying civil rights to citizens...
Apparently my point still stands:
If you don't want to outlaw these things, it would seem you're picking and choosing which parts of the Bible you want to follow...
Is that a lack of conviction or self-discipline? Perhaps you have loose morals?
theHiredMansWife
Well-known member
Despite what people try to say, no one follows a literal intrepretation of the Bible. Some might come closer than others, but everyone picks and chooses, whether they realize it or not.
And we've come full circle to my point, again. Since everyone picks and chooses what makes the most sense to him/herself, they have no right to claim that someone else's interpretation is wrong.
That's for God to decide.
And we've come full circle to my point, again. Since everyone picks and chooses what makes the most sense to him/herself, they have no right to claim that someone else's interpretation is wrong.
That's for God to decide.
Faster horses
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We have been exposed to so much atrociousness that we have become tolerant. After tolerance comes apathy.
I think we have become numb to outrageous things, and don't
rise up against them as we perhaps should. It is a vicious circle.
Most of us on this board are very fortunate to live where we do
and do what we do.
I think we have become numb to outrageous things, and don't
rise up against them as we perhaps should. It is a vicious circle.
Most of us on this board are very fortunate to live where we do
and do what we do.
Faster horses
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The word is atrociousness. I looked it up and changed the sentence.
And we have a very dear friend that is gay.
So you were wrong on both counts.
And we have a very dear friend that is gay.
So you were wrong on both counts.
katrina
Well-known member
R2, You suspect that some of us have never met a gay person. YOu shouldn't jump to concusions. My chemistry buddy in high school was gay. He is and was very nice and ran around with us girls. We knew but didn't care. Don't ask, Don't tell.
One of my freshman classmen was gay. Died of AIDs.
One of my dear friends son is gay. I used to give him rides on my horse and have pictures of so.
It's wrong, I don't except it. But they have to deal with God on judgement day and that's their problem not mine.....
One of my freshman classmen was gay. Died of AIDs.
One of my dear friends son is gay. I used to give him rides on my horse and have pictures of so.
It's wrong, I don't except it. But they have to deal with God on judgement day and that's their problem not mine.....
katrina
Well-known member
Thanks R2......
The bottom line is: We want to get to heaven... There is no other......
And to do so as someone said on a differant post there must be repentance for your sins and try to live as God would want us to live...
And I thank God every morning for another day to prove to him I am worthy of his grace. And somedays are better than others.....
The bottom line is: We want to get to heaven... There is no other......
And to do so as someone said on a differant post there must be repentance for your sins and try to live as God would want us to live...
And I thank God every morning for another day to prove to him I am worthy of his grace. And somedays are better than others.....
Faster horses
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With our good friend, we knew him for several years before we found out he was gay. I struggled with it for about a month, thinking of it constantly. The conclusion I came to was that he is still the very same person I (we) have always known. He is very discreet, does not flaunt it, so I (we) have accepted it in that light. I don't know if he even knows we know...and it doesn't matter.
I wish he wasn't gay. He has all the qualities that make a fine husband and terrific father. I don't know what happened to him or why. We have spent a lot of time together over the years. He is a terrific person and a very loyal friend. We try to return to him what he has given to us.
My mention of atrocity was not directed just toward gays. I meant it to encompass all the horrors that go on in the world today including the terrible movies and tv shows that air. We don't do much about it, just gripe and let it go. We need to be better organized to fight this trash, but everyone is just too busy. Including me, and I don't like myself for it much. We need to make a lot of noise...
I wish he wasn't gay. He has all the qualities that make a fine husband and terrific father. I don't know what happened to him or why. We have spent a lot of time together over the years. He is a terrific person and a very loyal friend. We try to return to him what he has given to us.
My mention of atrocity was not directed just toward gays. I meant it to encompass all the horrors that go on in the world today including the terrible movies and tv shows that air. We don't do much about it, just gripe and let it go. We need to be better organized to fight this trash, but everyone is just too busy. Including me, and I don't like myself for it much. We need to make a lot of noise...
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
theHiredMansWife said:Yeah, thanks Soapweed, you also answered MLA's question about adultery.
As for the rest of the list, MLA, I take it you don't know too many denominations outside your own, eh?
And I'm hardly a closet Methodist. I'm 100% proud to be a Methodist (you do know George W is Methodist, right?)
So far as drinking, dancing, cards, jewelry, etc. Do you think denominations like Seventh Day Adventist just made them up for fun?
Oh, and there's another good one:
Sabbath. No where in the Bible does it say anything about going to church on Sunday. Sabbath is Saturday. A Commandment, no less.
But I assume by your post that even when I post the references, you're just going to dismiss them. So I'll save myself the hassle since you'll just be supporting my point:
The Bible is a personal compass and as such speaks to different people in different ways. There is a reason we have however many different denominations.
I would agree. But I notice no where in there did you say anything about the importance of judging others or denying civil rights to citizens...
Apparently my point still stands:
If you don't want to outlaw these things, it would seem you're picking and choosing which parts of the Bible you want to follow...
Is that a lack of conviction or self-discipline? Perhaps you have loose morals?
My, my, my, don't we get defensive in a hurry when we feel that someone's questioning us, EH, HMW?
If I were to assume as much as you did in your reply, we could get into quite a scrap.
All I said was hold your positions up to the standard of contextual accuracy and examination and you will come close to knowing how to conduct your life.
I am no fan at all of any denomination. And I am sorry for the "closet Methodist" remark. I did not know your affiliation and it was insesnitive of me to make that remark.
Soapweed
Well-known member
Here is a question that somewhat pertains to the subject at hand. Okay, here is a definition right out of the Webster's New World Collegiate Dictionary. The word "beau" is defined: "the sweetheart or courter of a woman or girl". Could a beau be a female if it is half of a lesbian team? Just wondering, why I'm not sure. :???: :? :wink:
Soapweed said:
Soapweed I think you presented something to ponder. This is what I found.
beau
n 1: a man who is the lover of a girl or young woman
_____________________________________
beau ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b)
n. pl. beaus or beaux (bz)
The boyfriend of a woman or girl
______________________________________
Main Entry: beau
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: boyfriend
_________________________________________
Since boyfriend showed up in two of the three definitions I looked at it too just to make sure I knew the correct meaning.
boy·friend ( P ) Pronunciation Key (boifrnd)
n.
A favored male companion or sweetheart.
A male friend.
__________________________________________
No a lesibian could not be a beau as from the definitions I think it proves that a beau must be a male. Unless men that like woman can somehow be classified as male lesbians now................. :wink:
Jinglebob
Well-known member
CattleRMe said:
And here all the time I thought I was a regular lesbian! :shock:
A
Anonymous
Guest
I step out for a few days and it seems like this has turned into the Fag Forums. Is there really almost 20 pages worth of crap going on about queers? Wait a minute...was that politically correct terminology? Probably not, but who cares...
katrina
Well-known member
Like I said: It's black or white......
CattleRMe: Honey if the shoe fit wear it>>>>
CattleRMe: Honey if the shoe fit wear it>>>>
katrina said:
Aww see you really do like me see that honey bit. :wink:
What shocks me the most about these boards is when someone doesn't agree with another one of the first tactics is insult. I don't expect anyone here to agree with me for they are my opinions. I thought this forum was an area to discuss topics. With discussion comes difference in views. Difference in views is challenging and a tool for learning.
It appears to me that these boards tend more to be about the click trying to insult and prove the people who do not agree wrong rather then just trying to be adult and discuss the topic at hand. Look at the boards how many times does a topic actually stay on track?
Would you insult people like this if you were sitting down face to face with them? If you would then that lacks respect. My mother always told me don't say anything about someone unless you are ready to say it to their face. I know I'm a tad open minded for this forum but I'm not changing. I try to face issues with caring and compassion. I try to look at a situation not just jump to judge it. If these two things are wrong in that event I prefer to be wrong.
There are a few people here I'd like to thank for their time, their views, and a few things I feel I've learned. Thank you HMW, R2, Soapweed, nonothing, and Jinglebob. You all have such vast views but I feel I have learned someting from each of you or learned something trying to reseach the topic at hand to prove you wrong! LOL :wink:
