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Horse slaughter

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Its like Dr. Laura always said. You know your doing wrong when you would not want others to see you do it.
Try taking a tour of a horse slaughter plant. Guess what? They wont let you in.
Beef packing plants will let you in, but not horse slaughter plants.
Beef Packers make statements to the media all the time.
Try getting an interview with somebody from the horse slaughter plant in Fort Macleod.
Like all creepy crawly things they hide in the dark as best that they can. If they were not ashamed they would not keep such a low profile.
I also think your really giving the beef industry a bad name when you try to compare it to the horse slaughter industrty.
Besides there is no comparison between cattle and horses and if I had to use a quad or a branding table I would do something else for a living.
 
I really don't know any of the right answer's on this topic, but can offer this.......My horse and my dog I count my closest friends. My kerr dog Copper has long been used up and is now needing to be retired to the other side, this I will do humanely at my own expense as this dog has always been faithfull. Occasionaly a pain in the ass but for the most part a partner. I would never consider him as a meal on anothers table.....call me old fashioned. Last check there was a problem with over population of cats and dogs. My solution to this, I fix my dogs and cats and am a responsible owner.


I put down my 32 year old buckskin 2 years ago as he was ready and again at my own expense. I have spent more time with my Dogs and Horses than with my friends who were more interested in the mall when I was younger and gossiping over coffe at the kitchen table as I have gotten older. This horse would have done anything I have asked as have many others that I own and also have taken responsibilty for......I agree that something needs to be done with unwanted and crippled horse. However ranting and complaining about the problem by a majority that does not even own a horse does not solve it.

I take responsiblity for what is mine and maybe if the majority of people in this world would put up and shut up some of these things would be solved. I agree with RoperAB...... I would no sooner send my Dog to slaughter as I would not send my horse. And yes the need has arrisen to put down a rank horse which I have done humanely. At some point people will have to stop passing the buck and pick up the bill.

JMO
 
RoperAB said:
Its like Dr. Laura always said. You know your doing wrong when you would not want others to see you do it.

I've sold horses loose through a sale barn on several occasions. Chances are they went to a packing plant, but I can't say that I was embarrassed to have people know it was my horse. Dr. Laura probably doesn't have all the answers. She couldn't seem to get along with her own mother, so that doesn't speak too well for her.

Try taking a tour of a horse slaughter plant. Guess what? They wont let you in.

So what. I don't really care to visit one.

Beef packing plants will let you in, but not horse slaughter plants.

Yes, I've been to beef processing plants. At one, I was given a raw hot dog at the entrance, which I ate right before they showed us how they were made. It hasn't kept me from eating more hot dogs.

Beef Packers make statements to the media all the time. Try getting an interview with somebody from the horse slaughter plant in Fort Macleod. Like all creepy crawly things they hide in the dark as best that they can. If they were not ashamed they would not keep such a low profile.

That is your personal opinion and nothing more.

I also think your really giving the beef industry a bad name when you try to compare it to the horse slaughter industrty.

My point was that if we let emotion driven citizens have the say to shut down horse processing plants, it will be a stepping stone and a confidence-builder for them to try the same thing with cattle, hogs or chickens.

Besides there is no comparison between cattle and horses

Well, they both have four legs and a tail. Their babies suck out of the same location. They've both got two ears, two eyes, and two nostrils. Males of each species are similarily equipped, as are the females.

and if I had to use a quad or a branding table I would do something else for a living.

I feel the same way, but what in the world does that have to do with anything? You have a hard time keeping on the topic.
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RoperAB, you're obviously very passionate about this subject. I don't think anybody is gonna change your mind, either. But I'd still like to make a couple of points for others to consider.

I've been in two different horse plants. One of them is no longer in business. The other one I've been to is Beltex in Ft. Worth. It's still very much in business. Neither plant that I've been to are anything like what you're talking about. I've been on the kill floor at Beltex on more than one occasion. In fact, I used to go in there two or three times a month with killing horses. This was back in the late 80's, but things have only gotten better since then from an animal welfare perspective.

Even 15 or 20 years ago, the process at Beltex was very orderly and much like a cow plant. The horses went off the scales and up a chute one at a time to the kill floor. They were stunned with a captive bolt gun one at a time. There was no lining them up for a firing squad like you describe. To the best of my memory, the only thing different between their kill floor and a cow plant floor is that they have to be hung a little higher on the rail to keep their heads off the floor.

In those days, we referred to the bigger, fat horses as "airplane horses." If we could get them killed early enough in the day, they would be on an airplane to Belgium that night. Believe me, there is nothing to be gained by mistreating anything that someone is putting that much money into. Just as with cattle, bruising leads to trim, which means somebody is losing money.

Also, the theft issue is not a problem in Texas plants. We have brand inspectors on duty at both plants here. One of the easiest ways to get caught stealing horses in Texas is to try to get it killed at one of the horse plants.

The argument that you make is the same one that is made by PETA and other animal rights activists about other forms of animal agriculture. That's where the danger lies to our industry in giving in on this issue. We simply can't do it. We can't give in.

There is no difference in the principle you argue and the so-called 'principle' that PETA argues. The only difference is the species. If you choose to call them a companion animal, what's to keep the animal rights activists from calling their cows companion animals? If we give in on this, other species could be just down the road. Where does it stop?

We can't let "feel good" principles get in the way of private property rights, either. We lose enough property rights, anyway. Whether you like it or not, horses are private property. One chip at a time is all it takes to eventually erode our freedoms. Horses are property. Private property. Do what you wish with yours. But don't legislate what others do with their property.
 
The question that you still haven,t answered Roperab, is what are you going to do with all the unwanted horses? Are you going to put them in feedlots like the BLM has done with the wild horses? That is some life for them life with no parole and costing us taxpayers millions of dollars at the same time. What would you do with them? Push the honest cowman off his range because horses should take precidence over cows and turn them out there? That is the question that all of the advocates of abolishing horse slaughter are unwilling or can't answer. Is a horse any less dead if you have him killed than if he is killed by a packer? At least the packer will use him for something usefull.
I'm not trying to pick at you, I would just like to hear answers to these questions from your side of the debate.
 
<<<<and if I had to use a quad or a branding table I would do something else for a living.

I feel the same way, but what in the world does that have to do with anything? You have a hard time keeping on the topic. >>>>

It has everything to do with it! Soapweed where would this industry <ranching>be if it wasnt for the horse? I would be nothing without a horse! Doesnt matter if your Anky Van Grunsven or KC Tibbs, they are nothing without a horse! Heck we all might as well be dirt farmers!
I would think that anybody who makes his living on a horse would have some kind of appreciation for them. We owe them everything!
I dont for the life of me understand how anybody who thinks of himself as a rancher can not have a deep feeling of debt when he thinks about the horse and what we owe them.
I dont care if the whole works of you hate my guts im always going to speak up on behalf of the horse because its not like he can speak up for himself.
As far as im concerned WY has the right idea with the licence plates and its time we started putting La Primera on the $20 bill!
I just dont understand you guys! I think its a sorry outfit that would rob its old worn out saddle stock of a retirement. I think they deserve there freedom. Give an old gelding a weanling to hang around with. Let the old guy for once in his life enjoy a bit of freedom.
You would think ranchers would be the biggest advocate of the horse?
 
cowboyup said:
The question that you still haven,t answered Roperab, is what are you going to do with all the unwanted horses? Are you going to put them in feedlots like the BLM has done with the wild horses? That is some life for them life with no parole and costing us taxpayers millions of dollars at the same time. What would you do with them? Push the honest cowman off his range because horses should take precidence over cows and turn them out there? That is the question that all of the advocates of abolishing horse slaughter are unwilling or can't answer. Is a horse any less dead if you have him killed than if he is killed by a packer? At least the packer will use him for something usefull.
I'm not trying to pick at you, I would just like to hear answers to these questions from your side of the debate.
Click to expand...

How many times do I have to say it? Shoot them if they have to be put down! Wildlife officers do this all the freakin time. Its way more humane than the horse packing industry.
 
I for one, am a definite horse advocate. We certainly take care of our tried and true horses. That isn't what this is about...it's about the horses
that have problems, are not usable for one reason or another.

RoperAB, you are noble in your thinking, BUT...there's 1000's and 1000's of horses that go to kill each year. Way too many to shoot and bury. Sure, you could do it, in your country, we could do it, along with many others on this site, but there are so many that can't. And I'm not convinced shooting them is the best thing either. (Certainly not for our good horses, a vet will put them down.)
It's a problem, for sure. Say, you have a broodmare that isn't halter broke, hasn't had a colt for 2 years, is not registered; or she throws a colt with a defect every year. What are you going to do with her after you have pastured here for nothing for 2 years? She is not a saddle horse, or a particularly good brood mare. Would you just walk into your pasture and shoot her?

BTW, Willy Nelson is on the side of those not wanting horses to go to
packing plants. Just read that today.
 
I dont have an issue with the fact that they are being sent to the packing houses. I have a problem with the way they are getting there. And not trying to stir the pot here, but the majority of the horses sent are not elderly or crippled....just at the wrong auction at the wrong time....

I think once apon a time farmers and ranchers bred for just what they needed for using horses. I think as usuall we as human beings have went past that like everything else now and become a machine of breeding more horses than can possibly be used. I have 2 real nice mare's they have had conformationaly correct babies, the horse market was kinda bad this year so no I did not rebreed them this year and wont until the market picks up a bit. I see horse owners everyday that breed their okay non registered stock just so they can raise a foal, because it might be fun.....here is part of your problem. And I wont get into Show folks who breed horses with Hypp and many other maladies just so they can get a certain Halter Type horse to parade around in a ring when they know this horse has got a real good chance of carrying the disease either dormant or active.

Somehow the phrase "Waste not want not" comes to mind. Iam sick of the humane race constantly letting ourselves of the hook for a quick buck. Do I agree with the slaughter of horses as a necessity....YES. Do I agree with they way it gets done.....NO. And no I dont count a cow in the same context as a horse otherwise you would see more saddle cows :shock: So please instead of everyone complaining about right or wrong lets start getting our sh*t together here. If everyone would take their responsibility for their own it would eventually ad up to a fix for the problem.......

Off the soap box now :oops:
 
Roper have you ever been in a horse kill plant?

Roper have you ever hauled a pot load of horses?

Roper do you ranch (cattle) for a living.

Your a romantic but not realistic.

On every ranch turning a profit is the key a $500 kill horse will pay more bills than a $75 backhoe bill.

If I had to gather cows on a pedal bike and use the worst calf table there is I would'nt quit ranching just because I could'nt do it from a horse.I like horses but I like cows more and cows pay bils darn few horses pay anything.
 
Heck we all might as well be dirt farmers! Roperab says:

Okay.......Now ya pissed me off...... mr.cowboy.... Where would you be if there was not any farmers??? What's wrong with farming??? You narrow minded jerk... That loaf of bread that is sitting on your table, if says conagra on IT OUR WHEAT THAT MADE THAT BREAD FOR YOU!!!! Now you can put a face with the boughten bread, cuz it's ours!!!!!
And another thing, who feeds them cattle to fatten???? How many cowboy, ranchers do you know feed there own cattle. And IF they do what are they??? Dirt Farmers?????? Shame on you!!!!
I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON THAT BREAD YOU EAT!!!!!!!
 
katrina said:
Heck we all might as well be dirt farmers! Roperab says:

Okay.......Now ya p****d me off...... mr.cowboy.... Where would you be if there was not any farmers??? What's wrong with farming??? You narrow minded jerk... That loaf of bread that is sitting on your table, if says conagra on IT OUR WHEAT THAT MADE THAT BREAD FOR YOU!!!! Now you can put a face with the boughten bread, cuz it's ours!!!!!
And another thing, who feeds them cattle to fatten???? How many cowboy, ranchers do you know feed there own cattle. And IF they do what are they??? Dirt Farmers?????? Shame on you!!!!
I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON THAT BREAD YOU EAT!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :clap: :clap:

Its the old John Wayne cowboy complex "I can't sit on a tractor or do real work- somebody might see me"... :wink: :lol:

I think he's young Katrina-- some day he'll grow up and realize that the majority of the ranchers of today do a whole lot more than set a horse all day...Few around have the luxury of riding even as much as they want to if they're actually going to make a living.....
 
Faster horses said:
RoperAB, you are noble in your thinking, BUT...there's 1000's and 1000's of horses that go to kill each year. Way too many to shoot and bury. Sure, you could do it, in your country, we could do it, along with many others on this site, but there are so many that can't. And I'm not convinced shooting them is the best thing either. (Certainly not for our good horses, a vet will put them down.)
It's a problem, for sure. Say, you have a broodmare that isn't halter broke, hasn't had a colt for 2 years, is not registered; or she throws a colt with a defect every year. What are you going to do with her after you have pastured here for nothing for 2 years? She is not a saddle horse, or a particularly good brood mare. Would you just walk into your pasture and shoot her?

.
Click to expand...

If I couldnt find somebody who was looking for a lawn ornament. If I couldnt provide the range. If it came down to a bullet or the packers I would give it the bullet.
 
Oldtimer said:
katrina said:
Heck we all might as well be dirt farmers! Roperab says:

Okay.......Now ya p****d me off...... mr.cowboy.... Where would you be if there was not any farmers??? What's wrong with farming??? You narrow minded jerk... That loaf of bread that is sitting on your table, if says conagra on IT OUR WHEAT THAT MADE THAT BREAD FOR YOU!!!! Now you can put a face with the boughten bread, cuz it's ours!!!!!
And another thing, who feeds them cattle to fatten???? How many cowboy, ranchers do you know feed there own cattle. And IF they do what are they??? Dirt Farmers?????? Shame on you!!!!
I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON THAT BREAD YOU EAT!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :clap: :clap:

Its the old John Wayne cowboy complex "I can't sit on a tractor or do real work- somebody might see me"... :wink: :lol:

I think he's young Katrina-- some day he'll grow up and realize that the majority of the ranchers of today do a whole lot more than set a horse all day...Few around have the luxury of riding even as much as they want to if they're actually going to make a living.....
Click to expand...

Okay two farmers <send them to the packers> outed.
Any sheep herders on here?
 
Being from the Sandhills, I've been on both sides of the rail... I can remember Lenoard Peterson coming to bid on our steers and hiefiers in his great big lincoln... And my dad and every other rancher who did buisness had very high respect for him....
And yes we use a table, It is what works for us..... And yes my old horse that I got when I was fourteen or fifteen died six weeks ago.. And yes we buried him with full funeral ceremony.... I've walked in all those shoes and one way is not any better than other. It was what works for you and your operation....
 
Back to the horse slaughter issue-- I see where cattletoday is running a poll and 82% believe that horse slaughter plants should NOT be closed...
 
Oldtimer said:
Back to the horse slaughter issue-- I see where cattletoday is running a poll and 82% believe that horse slaughter plants should NOT be closed...
Click to expand...

Agri-talk ran a poll last week and if I heard right the poll was 82% the other way. Which suprised me.

Roper I have run cattle all my life and I have never owned a horse. I guess I am just another no good farmer. My horse sits quietly in the shed all winter and doesn't cost a dime to feed. There aren't too many people that own cattle nowdays that whether they want to admit it or not do not do some farming.
 
Those of us who don't do any farming are sure grateful that there are those who do! Our cows like to have hay to eat in the winter!
 

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