Older cows won't be crossing border this year

[Tam]

Tam please provide where R-CALF stated the quote you used.

"All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health"

Is that an exact quote or are you adding your own little touch to it?

Tommy I'm not going to bother finding the exact quote because you and I both know that you would deny it anyway. But I will say, we all know that when R-CALF's claims of financial hardships if the border opened to Canadian beef didn't receive the support they were hoping for. They moved on to more damaging claims to keep the border closed without any thought to what those claims would do if BSE was ever found in the US. And those claims were risk to consumer health. And if you want to deny that they were using health risks, then why if Cebull is to just look at the evidence before him in ruleing on a case did he include the statement Canadian beef if imported to the US presents a Genuine Risk of Death to US consumers? I doubt he got that idea from the USDA. And since the USDA and R-CALF were the only ones allowed to submit anything who do you think put that thought in his head? Could it be the same BEEF organization that stood with "consumer groups" :wink: and spoke out about the safety of beef? Haymaker's little poll about Has BSE been dramatized, the answer is YES and we only have R-CALF to blame for it too.

 

[Tommy]

Tam...Tommy I'm not going to bother finding the exact quote because you and I both know that you would deny it anyway.

You know nothing about me Tam. So provide the quote it came from or like Scott says it is a lie.

 

[Econ101]

Or is it because R-Calf is still trying to kill consumer demand for beef?

Bill I don't know where you went to logic school but I think you got rookered.

How does supporting bse testing for Creekstone hurt consumer demand?

Econ I think the R-CALF's statement about "All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health" tops the list for stupid comments made by a BEEF ORGANIZATION. In light of the fact that BSE was found in their very own NATIVE HERD. When Judge Cebull's comments included "Canadian beef presents a genuine risk of death" because of BSE. How were the US consumers suppose to look at the beef in the meat counter when they had to know there were thousands of Canadian born cattle now residing in the US and US cattle also have BSE? Why don't you really look at some of the R-CALF statements before you make comments about others logic? :roll:

Tam, maybe you would like to go tell Japan your views on the subject. I hear there is a party going there to try to help with the trade issues.

You may have to take a physical exam, however.

BSE is just being used by the packers and policy makers whenever and however they want to excuse their actions to get advantages to the people who are paying off politicians.

Tam, I don't intend to go over any of your rants about rcalf. I don't like using bse or any disease--which you have been accused of using-- for political ends. If your organization, the SSGA or whatever, has done this before, then you have no high ground in any of these arguments. While these issues are being made out to divide producers, the benefits are all accruing to the big packers. The divide little producers game so they can be manipulated is your self serving game, not mine.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Its actually sad, sone of them <rcalf>just dont see it. That or they just dont care. They want to screw us so bad that they dont care if they ruin there own industry in the process.
Things would be better for all producers north and south if some of them would think about things more and work together for the common good of the industry.
Its like they have this hate on and it blinds them.

RoperAB,there are thousands of fine cattle men/women that are R CALF members that have never hated anyone.
There are many more that know canada has some good cattle men/women that are fine people,dont try to twist this into something its not . I am a R CALF member and I hate no one and have never supported the border closure,until it became obvious there is a real health concern,you want the border opened to "OTM" cattle put your buisness in order and keep it that way..............good luck
PS tell me why you love packers,where were you when they were robbing the canadian cattle man,or maybe you helped them ?

Haymaker talking out of the other side of his mouth:

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yup,that would be good ole sh,its obvious who represents the cattle man,R CALF is our voice,they are the cattle man's group that will bring fairness to the markets.
As I read Denny's post about ncba a no show again I say it proves what I been saying,ncba is alot of things but dumb is not one of them,why would they debate R CALF and get embarassed again,the theory now is as old as the hills "why go prove R calf is right time after time" much better to stay away and spout packer rhetoric from a safe distance,kinda like sh, seems to be their MO...............good luck

PS before you Canadians get your ash in the air,let me make it perfectly clear,I have not and do not support the border being closed,let me ask a simple question,if we were to test all cattle would that not solve several problems? then get on with the real problem passage of M COOL & The captive supply reform act.
Its called "FAIRNESS" think about it .

I have not and do not support the border being closed

or

I hate no one and have never supported the border closure,until it became obvious there is a real health concern

Which is it Haymaker do you support the border closure or not. Talking out of both sides of your mouth again?

I guess you have a comprehension problem ?I have stated many times,every time some of us down here in TX soften our stance on BSE you have another case or two!!post feed ban I might add,its obvious you are not complying with your own regulations,you talk like you are then another case or two shows up,was talking to a neighbor of mine that has family in canada and he says there are many more cases of BSE than have been reported in canada,and while I understand this is hearsay,the facts are your most recent cases are not,you call me talking anyway you like,it does not change the facts.its this simple billy boy,you want the border opened ? COMPLY WITH THE FEED BAN!!!!!!
.................good luck

 

[Bill]

RoperAB,there are thousands of fine cattle men/women that are R CALF members that have never hated anyone.
There are many more that know canada has some good cattle men/women that are fine people,dont try to twist this into something its not . I am a R CALF member and I hate no one and have never supported the border closure,until it became obvious there is a real health concern,you want the border opened to "OTM" cattle put your buisness in order and keep it that way..............good luck
PS tell me why you love packers,where were you when they were robbing the canadian cattle man,or maybe you helped them ?

Haymaker talking out of the other side of his mouth:

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yup,that would be good ole sh,its obvious who represents the cattle man,R CALF is our voice,they are the cattle man's group that will bring fairness to the markets.
As I read Denny's post about ncba a no show again I say it proves what I been saying,ncba is alot of things but dumb is not one of them,why would they debate R CALF and get embarassed again,the theory now is as old as the hills "why go prove R calf is right time after time" much better to stay away and spout packer rhetoric from a safe distance,kinda like sh, seems to be their MO...............good luck

PS before you Canadians get your ash in the air,let me make it perfectly clear,I have not and do not support the border being closed,let me ask a simple question,if we were to test all cattle would that not solve several problems? then get on with the real problem passage of M COOL & The captive supply reform act.
Its called "FAIRNESS" think about it .

I have not and do not support the border being closed

or

I hate no one and have never supported the border closure,until it became obvious there is a real health concern

Which is it Haymaker do you support the border closure or not. Talking out of both sides of your mouth again?

I guess you have a comprehension problem ?I have stated many times,every time some of us down here in TX soften our stance on BSE you have another case or two!!post feed ban I might add,its obvious you are not complying with your own regulations,you talk like you are then another case or two shows up,was talking to a neighbor of mine that has family in canada and he says there are many more cases of BSE than have been reported in canada,and while I understand this is hearsay,the facts are your most recent cases are not,you call me talking anyway you like,it does not change the facts.its this simple billy boy,you want the border opened ? COMPLY WITH THE FEED BAN!!!!!!
.................good luck

Dance your little jig Haymaker. One breath you say you support the border closure and the next breath you don't.

Maybe you should spend your time helping age verify the last US BSE case as Canadians, Asians and others outside the US believe she was also born post feed ban and so far no one has proven otherwise.

 

[Bill]

Here Haymaker in case youmissed this posted in another thread..

Korea Stops U.S. Beef Imports After USDA Withholds Information on Latest Mad Cow Case
From: <http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200604/kt2006040519470011910.htm>
Korea Times - South Korea

US Holds Infomation on Mad Cow Case

SEOUL (Yonhap) ? The United States has failed to provide the date of birth
of a cow linked to a third case of mad cow disease on its shores, a matter
that could jeopardize Seoul's resumption of American beef imports, the
government said Wednesday.

The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry said Washington forwarded
information on the cow Friday but gave no conclusive evidence to indicate
its age.

``The data contained expert testimonies by veterinarians, but we cannot
determine for certain if the cow was born before April 1998,'' said Park
Hyun-chul, head of the ministry's livestock bureau.

The date is significant because if the animal was born after this date,
South Korea could halt all efforts to renew imports of American beef. The
date is when new measures to prevent mad cow disease went into full effect
in the United States.

In March, Washington confirmed the discovery of a third case of bovine
spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), better known as mad cow disease. Seoul
placed an import ban on American beef after the first BSE case was
discovered in 2003.

Park said Seoul has asked for additional information and could send South
Korean inspectors to directly check the evidence.

The official said that because of the lack of information, the exact date
for the resumption of American beef imports cannot currently be predicted.
The imports were originally expected to hit the market in early May.
``At this moment, we are not saying that we will not resume the imports of
American beef. But it remains hard to say exactly when the imports will
resume,'' a ministry official said on condition of anonymity.

Seoul and Washington agreed early this year to allow American beef back into
the country.
04-05-2006

 

[Tam]

Tam...Tommy I'm not going to bother finding the exact quote because you and I both know that you would deny it anyway.

You know nothing about me Tam. So provide the quote it came from or like Scott says it is a lie.

I know you are a R-CALFer that claimed the R-CALFs claims of testing more cattle annually than Canada was correct. And even after I provided the numbers that proved that the US hadn't even tested the same percentage let alone the number they claimed, you argued that R-CALF was right. The numbers don't lie Tommy. I don't really care if you R-CALFers think it is a lie. As anyone that can read the court documents and press releases from and about R-CALFs claims know they have used the health risk card every chance they get to further their agenda of stopping the Canadian beef trade. Even if it wasn't the exact words from the month of Bill or Leo we all know what they did say was taken that way or Cebull would not have included the words Canadian beef presents a "GENUINE RISK OF DEATH" if imported to the US. So if you feel like a big man by calling me a liar then go ahead be the man but those that are not brainwashed by R-CALF knows what they have said and why. :roll:

 

[Tommy]

Tam...And even after I provided the numbers that proved that the US hadn't even tested the same percentage let alone the number they claimed, you argued that R-CALF was right. The numbers don't lie Tommy.

Switching subjects on me Tam? Scott does that very well too.
The numbers I argued with you Tam came from the USDA not R-CALF. If the numbers are and were wrong, the USDA is not providing correct information.

Tam the quote you use and have used saying it came from R-CALF is just something you can use to stir up hate. You should be able to find it, you have used it enough.
Where did I call you a liar?
I said provide the quote from R-CALF or it is a lie, meaning the quote you are using is a lie.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Haymaker talking out of the other side of his mouth:







or



Which is it Haymaker do you support the border closure or not. Talking out of both sides of your mouth again?

I guess you have a comprehension problem ?I have stated many times,every time some of us down here in TX soften our stance on BSE you have another case or two!!post feed ban I might add,its obvious you are not complying with your own regulations,you talk like you are then another case or two shows up,was talking to a neighbor of mine that has family in canada and he says there are many more cases of BSE than have been reported in canada,and while I understand this is hearsay,the facts are your most recent cases are not,you call me talking anyway you like,it does not change the facts.its this simple billy boy,you want the border opened ? COMPLY WITH THE FEED BAN!!!!!!
.................good luck

Dance your little jig Haymaker.

One breath you say you support the border closure and the next breath you don't.

Maybe you should spend your time helping age verify the last US BSE case as Canadians, Asians and others outside the US believe she was also born post feed ban and so far no one has proven otherwise.

Yeah,well one day you have a new case of post feed ban"BSE" the next you dont,see the logic................good luck

 

[Tam]

Tam...And even after I provided the numbers that proved that the US hadn't even tested the same percentage let alone the number they claimed, you argued that R-CALF was right. The numbers don't lie Tommy.

Switching subjects on me Tam? Scott does that very well too.
The numbers I argued with you Tam came from the USDA not R-CALF. If the numbers are and were wrong, the USDA is not providing correct information.

Tam the quote you use and have used saying it came from R-CALF is just something you can use to stir up hate. You should be able to find it, you have used it enough.
Where did I call you a liar?
I said provide the quote from R-CALF or it is a lie, meaning the quote you are using is a lie.

Wrong Tommy what we were posting about was R-CALFs claim that the US tests 150,000 more cattle annually.

"We test annually over 150,000 more cattle than Canada tests, and Canada has a much higher exposure to European cattle that the US. Out of 16,000 animals tested in Alberta, four had mad cow. That kind of rate shows we better learn more about the Canadian system before we open our borders" said McDonnell

I post the USDA and CFIA test numbers and you claimed that R-CALF was still right so don't try weasal out of it. And can you explain how the number the USDA post on their website are wrong? The only way the numbers would prove R-CALF right is if the USDA were testing far far more than they claim to have tested and I can't see them doing that can you?

Tommy Tell us what is R-CALF's stand on the Public Health risk of eating US beef? Are they telling consumers they are putting their lives at risk if they consume US beef? Is Cebull telling US consumers that US Beef presents a GENUINE RISK OF DEATH if they eat it like he did about Canadian beef? OR are they still claiming the US produces the safest Beef in the World to the Highest Standards in the world even though the US now has BSE and your industry has far more loopholes than most any other country affect by BSE? Like I said it may not be the exact words but we all know except you what they meant and why they said it.

 

[Border rancher]

Hi again, Maybe r calf members will get their own way after all. Pretty soon all Canadian beef eaters might be dead if what you say about our hidden bse cases is correct. I haven't heard about more cases of human bse, but I guess maybe they are hiding too. I haven't wasted my time reading this forum for a long time, but I see nothing has changed.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi again, Maybe r calf members will get their own way after all. Pretty soon all Canadian beef eaters might be dead if what you say about our hidden bse cases is correct. I haven't heard about more cases of human bse, but I guess maybe they are hiding too. I haven't wasted my time reading this forum for a long time, but I see nothing has changed.

You better hope the USDA/CFIA/Packer bought science is right...Remember the incubation period on vCJD is listed as 5-20 years- If 5 years from now people start becoming infected, there will be no North American beef industry- let alone a US cattle industry thanks to USDA......

And remember- no matter who says what--- R-CALF has been right on about the effects of Canadian cattle and imports on the US prices- Last year with the border closed= record high fat, cull, and feeder prices- One year later with the border open and record high imports = everything is $10+ lower with fats aimed at going into the $60 range with huge feedlot losses.....
Last year by this time the buyers were out fighting to contract fall calves- this year they don't even want to talk to anyone....

Packers short time economic gain science could still put the whole industry down the drain.......

 

[Silver]

Personally, I'd like to see some of you advocates for keeping Canadian beef out for health reasons get up on your little soap boxes and holler like hell to get your country to stop exporting beef. Obviously you don't believe that minimal risk countries should be exporting, so why aren't you bitching about the potential harm you are doing to your trading partners? And why aren't you concerned that can't find the bse in your own herd? That must be pretty embarassing. But whatever, it'll all come out in the wash.
I still can't believe though that in our capitalist world we can't be free to test for bse as a marketing tool. Makes it appear to me as though folks on both sides of the border are afraid to know whats really going on.

 

[Tommy]

Tam...Wrong Tommy what we were posting about was R-CALFs claim that the US tests 150,000 more cattle annually.

No Tam you are wrong. Here is the post of your's that I responded to.

Tam...Econ I think the R-CALF's statement about "All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health" tops the list for stupid comments made by a BEEF ORGANIZATION. In light of the fact that BSE was found in their very own NATIVE HERD. When Judge Cebull's comments included "Canadian beef presents a genuine risk of death" because of BSE. How were the US consumers suppose to look at the beef in the meat counter when they had to know there were thousands of Canadian born cattle now residing in the US and US cattle also have BSE? Why don't you really look at some of the R-CALF statements before you make comments about others logic?

Specifically the statement..."All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health"

Instead of diverting to something else why not post where R-CALF used this quote? If you can't then we will have to believe you made it up.

 

[blackjack]

...excellent post silver...why is our cca here in canada so adamant in towing the line with the states... whose interest are they really looking after...

 

[Mike]

Silver:I still can't believe though that in our capitalist world we can't be free to test for bse as a marketing tool. Makes it appear to me as though folks on both sides of the border are afraid to know whats really going on.

And we sit here and wonder why the press is blowing BSE smoke?

The USDA is giving the veggies all the ammo they need to cripple the beef market.

Excellent post!

 

[Tam]

Tam...Wrong Tommy what we were posting about was R-CALFs claim that the US tests 150,000 more cattle annually.

No Tam you are wrong. Here is the post of your's that I responded to.

Tam...Econ I think the R-CALF's statement about "All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health" tops the list for stupid comments made by a BEEF ORGANIZATION. In light of the fact that BSE was found in their very own NATIVE HERD. When Judge Cebull's comments included "Canadian beef presents a genuine risk of death" because of BSE. How were the US consumers suppose to look at the beef in the meat counter when they had to know there were thousands of Canadian born cattle now residing in the US and US cattle also have BSE? Why don't you really look at some of the R-CALF statements before you make comments about others logic?

Specifically the statement..."All beef coming from a country affect by BSE is tainted and a risk to human health"

Instead of diverting to something else why not post where R-CALF used this quote? If you can't then we will have to believe you made it up.

Tommy I was referring to the conversation we had months ago that told me all I have to know about you, as you claimed I don't know you . You are an R-CALFer that will defend any statement (IE R-CALF claimed Test numbers) they make even if the whole world knows they are wrong. Every time they brought up the health risk associated with Canadian beef, which they did everytime they got a change, they were telling people to not trust beef coming from a country affected with BSE. INCLUDING THE U.S. BEEF NOW THAT YOU HAVE BSE IN YOUR NATIVE HERD. You still haven't told us where Cebull got it in his mind that Canadian beef presents a GENUINE RISK OF DEATH if it wasn't from something R-CALF had included in their briefings to him. Wasn't he to look at the evidence in front of him and make a ruling on THAT EVIDENCE. So who told him about the great risk to human health if it wasn't R-CALF?

 

[rancher]

Mike belongs to R-calf? Congratulations! When did you join?

 

[Mike]

Mike belongs to R-calf? Congratulations! When did you join?

Now just where in the heck have YOU been? You've missed a lot lately.

SH went nuts on us yesterday too! Bless him though, he needs it.

 

[rancher]

SH went nuts on us yesterday too! Bless him though, he needs it.

One thing about this group we take care of each other. That was really nice of you to bless him.

First thing I read the other day was Haymaker banning MRJ, still laughing about that one. What a group! :lol: