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prarie dog

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pjoe, do you own any land that you have paid for yourself by raising cattle only? There is a tremendous investment in land by many of the ranchers operating today. Don't you think they deservevreasonable compensation for giving you the privilege of going on that land to hunt?

You ignore liability insurance costs, too.

I agree with Denny on this one, to a degree.

Plus, I have to pay the going rate for any recreation I choose, so why should you or any other hunter be exempt and expect to have free access to hunt on private land?


For the record, we do allow some non-paid hunting on our land. But we will control who is hunting, what is hunted, how it is hunted, and when.

mrj
 
I can see both sides of this debate. We let non paid hunters hunt here. We have one set that is awesome to have around and very respectful of the rules my Dad imposes. The other set has some issues but because of age of the hunters we all kinda realize it's gonna be a pain in the butt but they've been hunting here for years. I also have to add that we personally know them. I wouldn't want just anybody showing up with weapons and such to hunt. Roaming around us while we continued our daily lives.

Paid hunting to me is driven by money which as a society we are more apt to be driven by monatary gains in this day and age. I understand why people do it. I think if it's reasonable it's ok but some get way out of control with their charging and I see the theory that they are making the young hunter extinct.
 
It would be near impossible to tell, but my theory is that between all the anti-hunting, "animals are our friends" rhetoric that gets the media space, and the lack of time available, plus all the demands of school sports, that it would be pretty hard to pin loss of young hunters on landowners who charge fees for access to their land. Some guides do have free hunting for young hunters, and SOME of them also do an exellent job of teaching GREAT hunting ethics to those young hunters.

I do wonder how what is spent on a skiing trip, for example, compares with what is spent on a modest hunt at a good fee for access place.......with maybe no more than a cast for a 'trophy' for the skiing trip!

mrj
 
mrj said:
I do wonder how what is spent on a skiing trip, for example, compares with what is spent on a modest hunt at a good fee for access place.......with maybe no more than a cast for a 'trophy' for the skiing trip!

mrj
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$1500 buys a lot of sking trips. Let alone the cost of the gun/ammo/supplies and such to go with it. You tell me what 12 year old has that kind of cash laying around let alone a middle class man and his son/daughter!!!!

I think it is a crock to give someone $500 to shoot a doe that they need to get rid of anyways!
 
Pjoe--Your attitude is why the younger generation is chosing not to hunt!!
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I don't think the younger generation choosing not to hunt is due to anyones attitude. There is public land and walk in areas for these people to hunt. It might be because some are walk in. I also don't think you can blame landowners who charge.

The only one charging YOU to hunt is GF&P.


Pjoe--$1500 buys a lot of sking trips. Let alone the cost of the gun/ammo/supplies and such to go with it. You tell me what 12 year old has that kind of cash laying around let alone a middle class man and his son/daughter!!!!
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$1500 dollars will not buy alot of skiing trips unless it is your back yard. Sometimes young people have to make choices. Evidently they have and hunting isn't on the top of their list.

Pjoe--I think it is a crock to give someone $500 to shoot a doe that they need to get rid of anyways!
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That is the great thing about living in America you have a choice and evidently you choose not to pay $500 to shoot a doe. Someone else may think it is great.
 
Paying to hunt in most cases is something I frown upon on big time. Times where tough for many years for many farmers and ranchers, it wasn't until the last 20 years or so and the TV shows and promoting monster this and that, that hunting became a recreational form of fee! My family hunted some of the best white tailed deer ground in the Nation for 40+ years and the landowner never thought of charging us. This area I talk about has been plastered all over the TV hunting shows and yet we continue to hunt free of charge, it is what a landowner wants or expects from people.

If you want a business arrangement the have pay to hunt, if you want to have friendship and see the eyes of kids light up when they take there first rabbit,squirrel,pheasant or big game animal then charging will limit that enjoyment for ALL involved no matter the price!

The President is making more money be had to incorporate into public lands access and more leasing of private for public access as that is the future of hunting in the US, we could become Great Britain where only the wealthy par take or we can keep our American heritage alive and well, where all walks of life have the opportunity of fair chase, fun and excitement and make long lasting friendships with others!

The only pay to hunt I respect for are those that do it right and don't try to make it a 2nd or 3rd or 4th income, play by the rules offer a good guilty hunt and set up your land to hold as much game as possible and keep genetics and habitat at a premium for the wildlife.

Most farmers/ranchers have a great service for no fee offered them through allowing access to hunting they can pick and choose species and numbers and sex allowed, go pay to hunt and see how many want to shoot or pay for a doe/fawn big game? Then your not only hurting your own ground but the surrounding neighbors who don't have pay to hunt and want deer numbers cut way back , they find refuge on your locked land unless wallet is out approach and then winter on the neighbors who is trying his/her best to offer fair and reasonable access to take care of ever grow big game numbers, a cycle that just goes round and round and your Game Dept is stuck in the middle of both sides!

SJ please explain you game dept is the only one charging you to hunt in detail please?
 
GF&P is the only one charging to hunt if you want to hunt.

Anyone charging access to their land is a choice.
 
SJ said:
GF&P is the only one charging to hunt if you want to hunt.

Anyone charging access to their land is a choice.
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Too much logic there for Happy to understand.
 
SJ said:
GF&P is the only one charging to hunt if you want to hunt.

Anyone charging access to their land is a choice.
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Well if thats the way you want to see it then, every landowner, including you, should think that $45 bucks to take 1 anydeer and 1 anterless deer is more than fair compensations for a tresspass fee. :eek: :D
 
I don't know of anyone who charges a trespass fee. Trespass is illegal.

That is the way I see it, tell me how you see it. That is exactly how it is.

If that is what a license costs how do you figure it would cover the right to access?
 
Landowners are very aware if you use the term "trespass fee" you are in violation of the compounding law. As I stated before trespass is Illegal.

Here is an incident:

A landowner stopped some hunters who had shot a deer on his property without asking permission. The landowner asked for a user's fee. When the hunters refused he called the CO to charge them with trespass.

When the CO came out he stated that he could charge the landowner for charging a trespass fee. The landowner said he had asked for a user's fee.

The CO used the term "trespass fee" several times but the landowner kept correcting him.

The CO said he would have to check with the higher ups to decide whether he would charge him or not.

The landowner told him, to do what he had to do, but he would take it to court.

I assume this landowner was running a tape recorder.


GF&P does pretty much the same thing at the state parks that require an entrance (access/users) fee.
 
SJ said:
I don't know of anyone who charges a trespass fee. Trespass is illegal.

That is the way I see it, tell me how you see it. That is exactly how it is.

If that is what a license costs how do you figure it would cover the right to access?
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Sorry, call it a "user fee" then. I used tresspass fee because that is what LB calls it. Don't kid youself, many ranchers/farmers charge "user" fees.

You keep saying that GF&P is the only one that charges us to hunt. Well when I pay GF&P for the license it cost me $45. I have no problem with paying you ranchers out west $45 bucks for a "user" fee also. Since you gripe about it so much, that seem like it would be plenty fair!
 
GFP needs to charge a fee simply to manage the herd/fishery/flock, pay for law enforcement and tools, and to purchase/rent additional lands for the purpose of recreation. THey are not out to make a profit, but when they are in the black, it goes back into recreation one way or the other. I also believe they stand on their own, not needing additional funding from the state.

I dont mind anyone charging a fee. I think this thread was about prairie dogs, which people charge a fee, yet bitch about them damaging their pastures. Same with deer if you ask me. Many wont allow reasonable access yet complain about depredation. It makes no sense.

I believe if you charge to hunt you are also putting yourself at risk of lawsuit the hunter gets hurt. I dont know of a case where someone was given permission for free access, was hurt, and a lawsuit was filed and the landowner was found neglegent (misspelld??).

I have said many times, and will say it again. Go ahead and charge to hunt. Go ahead and lockout your land from hunters. But if you charge to hunt or lockout, dont go complaining there are too many animals that are causing damage. Just think about that the next deer you hit with your vehicle passing that tree grove and remember back to last fall when that father and son stopped and asked permission to hunt that grove and they were told a $$$ amount, or were just told NO.
 
What you have is a fee that takes care of your game depts budget in a big way SJ, if ALL taxpayers would like added taxes then I guess one could hunt for free just have a lottery because the numbers would rise on free license for sure, the problem then becomes all tax payers burden, now you have the sportsman/woman paying the bulk of many game agency budgets becuase they reap a good share of the benefit 2nd most benefit the landowners from these fees and lastly the non hunting general public, offer to raise veryones taxes and thyen your game dept can give out free license but I guess people can complain when there property tax or some other form of state tax increases to make up for the lost revenue of license sales.

Again think who benefits the most from the sportsman paying the way the 2 groups most connected to the lands of any state!
 
Still appears to be a matter of jealously of land owners and a belief that landowners should allow every 'Tom, Dick, or Joe' and their kid unlimited access to their land and 'trust' them to stay on the trails, hunt on foot, close gates found closed, and generally behave in a sportsman like way.

Doesn't happen that way all that often for those who do open their land. Some landowners don't have time to monitor the hunters to see that they do behave.

For those short on time, Guides can be a valuable service to both the paying hunter and the landowner.

Our observation has shown that the worst abuse has come from those who have the least means to pay for damages they cause and they are least likely to ask permission to hunt in the first place.

Some others who may not cause damage, but hunt without permission are quick to deny they have been hunting on specific land, even when caught virtually red handed.

Abusers of privilege of hunting are difficult to punish because game officers are too few and it takes too much time to wait for them, along with difficulty in getting any significant punishment, IMO.

mrj
 
MRJ, I don't buy your reasoning for the pay to hunt high dollar crowd. You build relationships with ma/pa hunters, the other is a business deal first and foremost, if they can shoot bigger for less or same price many will jump ship, ma/pa and kids respect the lands because you build a friendship and they know there is nothing keeping them hunting but being good stewards of the land and being kind and courteous and abiding by the landowners request or they are down the road, sure you have a few bad apples it has happens, but your portrayel is not the norm at all.

In fact many high dollar pay to hunt expect to be well taken care of and want the big racks, why? They are paying for that very service if you don't deliver they will be down the road, how many of these take home the does and eat them? answer not many deer management is far more than horns. They have no ties as they have money and that will travel to many states and to many hunting operations, looking for the next bragging buck and could careless about doe management as they are paying you for service rendered.

I have known people and heard the stories of people who have hunted and helped out many farmers/ranchers for 10+ years only to be sold out for the $$$$ of pay to hunt. Hunters keep getting long in the tooth and it doesn't help recruitment when all want to charge high fees to shoot game, again welcome to the UK becuase that is where the hunting in the US is headed, and for those that think it will solve itself, wait until the numbers really decline and tax payers are footing the bill for professional hunters to solve these wildlife issues, be it shooting or an exspensive form of birth control.
 
Lucky.....sorry you haven't had the good experiences with hunters willing to pay a guide fee or access fee to ranchers that we have.

There seems to be an underlying tone or accusation that financially successful people are the only 'slob' hunters in your posts.

Our experience as been that those we have dealt with are fine with the fact that our long term acquaintances, friends, and family will be hunting our ranch free of charge, while they will be paying the guide who conducts their hunts on the ranch. They also have universally demonstrated that the HUNT is the important thing and the "trophy" is incidental to that hunt. They also seem very satisfied with the "mom & pop" families doing the guiding, cooking, and accomodations, none of which is posh or ostentatious.

You have not demonstrated that it is anywhere near "all" who charge fees, high or not, for hunting privileges.

You ignore the fact that costs of operation for family farms and ranches(and something like 98% of US farms and ranches ARE family owned and operated businesses!) have long been very high. A few years ago, the expected rate of return on investment was around 1.5%, with 3% being considered an excellent rate. Charging a fee for those who want to do recreational activities on our land is one way we can improve the bottom line of a business which definitely is not noted for a life of ease and 'windfall profits' for the owner/operators.

mrj
 
You boys that think all you have to do is own a farm/ranch and you're on easy street due to all these government handouts are just completely wrong.

If its so good, just step out and buy a place and come back 10 years down the road and tell us all about how rich you're getting. The way you are putting it out, its about as close to a sure thing as you're going to get. What are you waiting for?
 
You boys that think all you have to do is own a farm/ranch and you're on easy street due to all these government handouts are just completely wrong.

If its so good, just step out and buy a place and come back 10 years down the road and tell us all about how rich you're getting. The way you are putting it out, its about as close to a sure thing as you're going to get. What are you waiting for?
 

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