Question for the "Straight Black Commercial Cow/Calf Ma

[DJL]

I'm kinda thinkin I'm the one being picked on here. I didn't attack Larry or Juan's cows, but rather answered why we won't run hereford bulls, but you'd never know that by their response. Our blacks do much better here than herefords ever did, so I'd be a fool to go back to them. I think I'll leave it, and let them go their own way. :lol: :lol:

 

[Faster horses]

It's ok, DJL, Some of us here agree with you...
One thing about it, it's AMERICA and everyone can run what breed
fits them best.

BTW, Rock Creek Cattle Co. out of Deer Lodge, Mt. was a Hereford
outfit for years. They ran about 3000 mother cows and dehorned every one of those calves at branding time. Talk about work!!! They started buying Black Angus bulls and keeping the heifers. Today the whole
ranch is Black Angus cattle and NO DEHORNING.

Took them quite awhile to see the light, but they finally did.
Lots LESS work with those black cattle.

Some friends from Avon ran straight Simmental cattle (the big yellow and red ones) because their dad did,
and they didn't know any different. They had an opportunity to buy 100 head of 3 year old Angus cows out of a Purebred herd. That sping we asked them how they liked their Angus. They LOVED them. They said, "we just glance at them while we are on our way to WORK with some problem with the Simmental".

Guess what????? They run all Angus cattle today.

It appears some people just don't need the extra work it takes with other breeds.

 

[Larrry]

All I did was state why breeds other than Blacks were putting more money in my pocket and you act like it is a personal attack on you.

I see breeders all the time changing, looking for that greener grass on the otherside of the fence. Who bought the top bulls at Holdens this year? It was a Black ranch. Does it mean much, not really. People are constantly looking.

Reminds me of the oldtimer telling, sleep with a mans wife but condemning a mans cows can get ya in deep trouble :shock:

Like I have said many times before, to each his own. Can anyone understand that.

 

[DJL]

Many of the PB hereford people have done the same thing up here, FH. The smarter ones changed with the times and started a PB angus herd as well as keeping their herefords, like Frazers that NR talks about. Flexiblitly is key to making it in the industry, I'm thinkin'.

 

[katrina]

Actually I hope know one catches on to the black baldy.. cuz it's less competition for us..... Yea stay with those blacks guys..... :twisted: :twisted:

 

[DJL]

Katrina, that is precisely what I say for those who stay straight hereford - less competition for us at the sales, both cattle and bulls. :lol: :lol:

 

[Juan]

Larry, Hereford 76 asked an honest question, and I gave an honest answer. If you don't like my answer that's fine, but no one is stalking you. Paranoia is the first sign of mental illness! :shock: :lol: :lol:

Good thing JB's not here or he would have to leave again cause DJL is pickin' on LARRRRRY :wink:

I'd bet anyone a penny Jinglebob is reading every one of these posts

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Larry, Hereford 76 asked an honest question, and I gave an honest answer. If you don't like my answer that's fine, but no one is stalking you. Paranoia is the first sign of mental illness! :shock: :lol: :lol:

Good thing JB's not here or he would have to leave again cause DJL is pickin' on LARRRRRY :wink:

I'd bet anyone a penny Jinglebob is reading every one of these posts

A penny? That's pretty rich for this old Angus man. :wink: :lol:

 

[Red Robin]

Larry, Hereford 76 asked an honest question, and I gave an honest answer. If you don't like my answer that's fine, but no one is stalking you. Paranoia is the first sign of mental illness! :shock: :lol: :lol:

Good thing JB's not here or he would have to leave again cause DJL is pickin' on LARRRRRY :wink:

I'd bet anyone a penny Jinglebob is reading every one of these posts

Are you kidding? The way Kolan treated him, he's probably done. Out of here. :lol:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Good thing JB's not here or he would have to leave again cause DJL is pickin' on LARRRRRY :wink:

I'd bet anyone a penny Jinglebob is reading every one of these posts

Are you kidding? The way Kolan treated him, he's probably done. Out of here. :lol:

Are you tryin' to say she "Spanked" him? :shock: :wink:

 

[Hereford76]

Boy, did this thing not go like I was hoping. I think the answer that I will take to heart was the one about not as easily finding a Hereford bull to use on black cows that will make good females as well as steers. Although I think if you asked any purebred breeder of any breed he/she has run into that same situation within his/her herd.

I didn't think this would turn into a debate about what breed is better cause I think that is a waste of time. There are good and bad traits about every breed, environment, management, etc. all comes to play and unless your comparing apples to apples in regards to different breeds you can argue about it until you are blue in the face. In my mind Herefords and Angus cattle have several characteristics that make them both better and worse than eachother - but the coolest thing about the two is how well they compliment eachother not only on the ranch but all the way through the industry.

I run Hereford cattle cause thats what works best in our environment. OUr place is in the middle of what used to be called the Great North American Desert. Having years with under 5 inches of moisture isn't that uncommon. Does that mean I think the guy down the road is wrong cause he has something else - no. I could just as easily go straight commercial and through in a black or red angus bull to take advantage of the heterosis and keep the Hereford bulls around for my replacements and would probably be just as well off. I just get a huge sense of pride marketing straight herefords in the same way that every rancher does when he sells the hell out of his soggy old steer calves.

I tried to aim the question at the commercial cow/calf producer that has been buying black angus bulls from a purebred angus producer for atleast one generation on the ranch, ie - he has had a solid black herd forever and could more than likely benefit from heterosis.

Oh, one other thing - I don't have anything against L1 Herefords and I didn't mean to come off that way. I just think it has been a good way to set this ranch apart from the rest... I enjoy having something unique to the majority thats all. I take pride in the fact that this place in one of very few Hereford operations that has never used a Cooper or Holden bull. Does that mean that I think there is something wrong with those cattle - surely not. Does that mean I think I could not benefit from those cattle - no. It comes down to trying to maintain a different gene pool. And besides this place is 60 miles as the crow flies from Holden Herefords. How would you like to have to compete with that huh?

 

[Rafter G]

How 'bout this heterosis? and 3 way cross? Braford momma cows with an Angus bull for comercial calves. Handlin' and cullin' gets rid of defaults and crazy rips that try to kill humans and horses. I've seen crazy in every breed and default in every breed.

 

[Doug Thorson]

Boy, did this thing not go like I was hoping.

The first 3 or 4 pages went well with some good discussion. I am glad you brought this up.

I don't have anything against L1 Herefords

I didn't think you did nor did I take any offense. I do have L1 and would hate to screw up your herd. 8)

A couple links to the cattle I have
http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18469&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18486&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

This thread is frustrating because my camera broke down last week. The brand photo contest was the one I was looking foreward to and then this with my camera down!!

 

[kolanuraven]

I'd bet anyone a penny Jinglebob is reading every one of these posts

Are you kidding? The way Kolan treated him, he's probably done. Out of here. :lol:

Are you tryin' to say she "Spanked" him? :shock: :wink:

Yeah....he's a'wishin'!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :wink: :wink: :!: :!: :!: :!:

 

[Faster horses]

Hey, Doug...we'll run the Brands catagory again. Let me know when your camera is up and running. It was a really cool catagory. No problem with doing it again.

 

[Doug Thorson]

Hey, Doug...we'll run the Brands catagory again. Let me know when your camera is up and running. It was a really cool catagory. No problem with doing it again.

Thanks, I am not sure when we will get to Rapid City to have it looked at but I will let you know.

 

[PPRM]

Boy, did this thing not go like I was hoping.

The first 3 or 4 pages went well with some good discussion. I am glad you brought this up.

I don't have anything against L1 Herefords

I didn't think you did nor did I take any offense. I do have L1 and would hate to screw up your herd. 8)

A couple links to the cattle I have
http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18469&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18486&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

This thread is frustrating because my camera broke down last week. The brand photo contest was the one I was looking foreward to and then this with my camera down!!

Doug,

I coulda replied to any of your posts, this one was just handy...Cattle are like Kids....As long as you keep doing thier work for them, they will let you....

I agree with your Hrd Line Stance on cattle...

Hereford.....At some point, I may be willing to use a Hereford Bull...The Hereford Association has shown studies where fertility increases with a Hereford Cross over any other Breed...I like that. And, I know if I look I could definetly find a good bull in any breed that will fit my needs...

Why not now? I am too small to have a seperate herd of developing replacement hiefers...My customers want to know the breed in many cases when buying my beef.....Angus is the answer they tend to be looking for,

PPRM

 

[andybob]

For anybody that didn't read Knersie's post on the cattletoday forum on Hereford eyeset, here is the link; http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36508&highlight=hereford+eye+pigment

 

[Red Robin]

For anybody that didn't read Knersie's post on the cattletoday forum on Hereford eyeset, here is the link; http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36508&highlight=hereford+eye+pigment

Thanks for the link andybob. It's nice to see someone who understands there are phenotypical differences in cattle and is able to apply the differences to better his herd. I guess we need an eyeset epd. :wink:

 

[Hereford76]

I bought a bull sight unseen last spring to clean up on the yearlings and canned him cause he didn't have fully hooded eyes or good enough hair. Its funny, two years ago a guy from New Zealand and a guy from Australia came to view the cattle and all they could talk about was how good the eye sets and tail sets were on the cattle - they really must pay attention to that. I say it is funny cause how often do you hear guys from the US talk about eye set, they talk about pigment but not so much eye set. That pretty interesting.

My customers want to know the breed in many cases when buying my beef.....Angus is the answer they tend to be looking for,

THe angus breed has done an excellent job of developing avenues for their end product. That is exactly what I think is keeping the Herefords from coming back stronger - just not as many avenues for Hereford influenced beef. For a retailer the safe choice is choice beef and/or angus beef.