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Question for the "Straight Black Commercial Cow/Calf Ma

If I ever get one I know who to phone-despite all our wildest predictions no one breed has a monopoly on grief. I deal with prolapses with my .270 but haven't used any shells in a long time. The last one was a crazed angus EXT though. The worst bulls I've seen to get out of the bush are aged Charolais they can be a handful.
 
We had a limo that was no fun, unless you got off your horse and walked with a stick. That he understood, and walked on home like an old milk cow. He wasn't the least mean, but rather simply didn't grasp how the horse/bull relationship was supposed to work, seeing as he had never seen a horse before we got him, which is my major complaint with most purebred breeders anymore. The worst in this country have been Hays Converters, Limo and some red Angus, according to the guys on the Waldron. These darn bulls are getting so huge that it's a bit frightening when they as tall as the horse you're riding! Last hereford bull we had when we were looking after another person's cattle (we didn't pick him), was literally bigger than my 15 hand gelding. He must have been a pretty ugly BW too, because we had some HUGE calves, and those huge dead calves don't pay well.
As far as monopolies on prolapse, that was the reason for staying with those couple of breeders, as we went for years with zero prolapse, since any prolapse and anyone remotely related to her went down the road until it wasn't a problem anymore, but after looking for a bit of outside blood, ran into it again. No breed is perfect, and I still like a black baldy best, but as I said, hubby is liking them all black, and he is the one who calves them.
 
I doubt that anyone would say they don't like a black baldie cow.
However, I had a diehard Hereford man tell me that first Angus/Hereford cross was dynamite and it was downhill from there. So, you need to keep the first cross for replacements. If you are like us, you can't run 2 separate herds so it is just easier to run straight black angus.

I guess we think you still get some undesirable Hereford traits with the BB cow...pink bags, unless you watch for that; and some udder problems.
Black Angus cows just eliminate so many problems. As we grow older,
less problems are desireable. When you are young, it doesn't matter as much. We started out with Herefords and had too many cancer eyes...so in 1979 we changed to Black Angus.

I sure like seeing a good bunch of Hereford cows, though.
 
I'll take Hereford or many other breeds over the blacks. It is not worth it having a family member or employee killed over some lunatic black bull with a thorn up his bt. Or a irrate black momma who goes way past just being a good momma and gets in the phase of being possesed. No thanks, some things I will not compromise on. Besides I am getting to old to have to look over my shoulder all the time and be ready to climb a fence at a moments notice. I sold my blacks for that reason and I ain't going back, Nope ain't gonna do it.
 
I'll probably always have a soft spot for a grassy meadow full of fether-necked Herefords. I liked my Angus cross cows, love my Galloways though. And when crossed with Herefords - look out! Now THAT is a SUPER BALDIE in my opinion. Northern can attest to that crossbreeding plan. His neighbour has a damn fine set of baldies, and all out of Hereford cows and Galloway bulls. I've said it before, maybe one day we'll try a Hereford bull on some Galloway cross females, but for now, it doesn't fit the marketing plan.
 
I'm with you, FH!
Larry, as to temperment, lets see, there was Psycho, the straight hereford who would kill you anytime of the year if you got near her calf, right up until she was weaned; two purebred hereford cows who had a shovel bent over their heads more than once just to save your life and get away from them; #50 a straight rwf who would try very hard to lift herself with her head and neck in an attempt to climb onto the truck deck with you to get her calf; Crazy Woman, a char/hereford who reserved her killing sprees for the first month after calving. We had only one angus cow in that herd that would chase, out of a mostly black herd. None of these were our own cows or they would have been gone and fast, and we were much younger then, and starting out. We don't have one single black cow that will hold a candle to any of these old girls, and I'm not afraid to stumble through the herd in the middle of the night with a flashlight should it be necessary. Angus do not have a corner on the bad temper market around here.
 
Larrry said:
I'll take Hereford or many other breeds over the blacks. It is not worth it having a family member or employee killed over some lunatic black bull with a thorn up his bt. Or a irrate black momma who goes way past just being a good momma and gets in the phase of being possesed. No thanks, some things I will not compromise on. Besides I am getting to old to have to look over my shoulder all the time and be ready to climb a fence at a moments notice. I sold my blacks for that reason and I ain't going back, Nope ain't gonna do it.
You got it right Larry :mad: :mad: Wait till some of these blacks blow out of shelter and die while the old Herefords wait for the sun to shine :D :D :D :D Iv'e seen it many a time.
 
Larrry said:
I'll take Hereford or many other breeds over the blacks. It is not worth it having a family member or employee killed over some lunatic black bull with a thorn up his bt. Or a irrate black momma who goes way past just being a good momma and gets in the phase of being possesed. No thanks, some things I will not compromise on. Besides I am getting to old to have to look over my shoulder all the time and be ready to climb a fence at a moments notice. I sold my blacks for that reason and I ain't going back, Nope ain't gonna do it.


Then you must've had junk black cattle then.
 
kolanuraven said:
Larrry said:
I'll take Hereford or many other breeds over the blacks. It is not worth it having a family member or employee killed over some lunatic black bull with a thorn up his bt. Or a irrate black momma who goes way past just being a good momma and gets in the phase of being possesed. No thanks, some things I will not compromise on. Besides I am getting to old to have to look over my shoulder all the time and be ready to climb a fence at a moments notice. I sold my blacks for that reason and I ain't going back, Nope ain't gonna do it.


Then you must've had junk black cattle then.
You've got it also Kola.Mix every g d thing together ,register it burebred black and you have" junk black cattle"
 
Northern Rancher said:
As far as 20P goes I'd consider Centennial to be the weak link in his pedigree I'm glad he's quite aways back-Centennials were probably a frame score too high and a condition score too low for my liking. Fraser's graze out all winter so they got sorted pretty quick but the ones left are worthy cows.

We used a son of Centennial 67Z out of a cow Kam McKenzie flushed and offered in his sale. The cow was a Lerch cow that he was so high on with the old electic bull on her bottom side. I had the opposite with this bull, some of the cows were bigger yes - but man they always came home with the heaviest calf and the cows always held their condition.

That 20P bull out of a 19Y cow sounds plum interesting. I still don't know if I can look past the 552. I mean no disrespect - I am a pedigree freak and I want to maintain a cow herd with as little L1 in it as possible. Besides I have to be a source of an outcross to all the L1's down here.
 
Doug Thorson said:
but the main other reason is it is easier to buy Angus. The selection is way bigger and the calves are easy to sell. It also makes cows easy to sell.

being a easy and safe choice is what I think has kept more breeders breeding black on black and I don't blame them. I sincerely hope the Hereford breeders and Association in the US can come together and help make the Hereford bull an easy or safe choice to make again.

The Hereford breed can be the best for efficiency all around in the industry but until we develop the markets for the red white faced calves I don't think breeders will change.
 
My family ran Hereford bulls for over fifty years. The cause of the demise of the hereford breed is the same reason that will cause the demise of the angus breed. Popularity
Twenty years ago we put a continental bull over the cows ( I wont mention the breed because that would be blatant self promotion) and we experienced the optimal heterosis! I still believe the british breeds i,ncluding hereford, are a perfect cross for continental cattle. The reason I would not put hereford on straight angus cattle is it would not produce the same heterosis levels that would be achieved by putting a continental bull on.
 
Juan said:
kolanuraven said:
Larrry said:
I'll take Hereford or many other breeds over the blacks. It is not worth it having a family member or employee killed over some lunatic black bull with a thorn up his bt. Or a irrate black momma who goes way past just being a good momma and gets in the phase of being possesed. No thanks, some things I will not compromise on. Besides I am getting to old to have to look over my shoulder all the time and be ready to climb a fence at a moments notice. I sold my blacks for that reason and I ain't going back, Nope ain't gonna do it.


Then you must've had junk black cattle then.
You've got it also Kola.Mix every g d thing together ,register it burebred black and you have" junk black cattle"


Sounds like you and Larrry must've split the herd !!!!
 
This year we are considering purchasing some Herford bulls in order to bring some cross breeding back into the program. Knowing some professors in animal science through my brother we've been trying to put more weight on our calves since we are in the business of selling pounds. I would like to use Charlaios but the others opinons seems to be Herford. I also think black baldies are a great cross and can make great replacement heifers. However, anytime in the past the neighbors bull has climbed the fence which are charlaios we've had some massive calves come sale day.
 
DJL, let me tell you a little story. I had a friend that would go and buy dogs from a breeder. The best bunch of dogs you ever saw. Well he ended up buying three of them over a span. Durned if everyone of them dogs wasn't the highest strung thing you ever saw. Heck it even got two of them killed. Wonder why?
When I was into the blacks I bought them from a breeder that raised other breeds. Well I bought some of all these breeds. When you went and looked at them the blacks always hit the back of the pen. The other breeds didn't. Well this went on for a few years and I got my belly full of that crap. So the blacks got a free ride to town. Heck some of them even had some of that high powered Ankony breeding :lol:
 
Larry you better stick with herefords then, and be safe, and leave the black angus to me and FH and the rest of us commercial angus folks. I don't enjoy losing good cows to cancer eye, bad feet, bad bags or oiling sunburned bags. I used to tell my hubby that if he showed me a hereford that milks, I'd show him a cow with a bad bag! If hereford is your thing, good for you. My cows are supposed to work for me, not the other way around.

The fact that your friend was lousy with dogs still doesn't make my angus cows wild or crazy! :D :D
 
This has been interesting. I run abou 400 black cows. Most are straight bred angus but I do have some baldy cows decendant from early purchases. I run straight Black on Black for the ease of breeding. One pasture for the commercial cows. I think the temperment has to do more with environment then breed to a point. Our cows run out all winter only getting supplemental hay. they go thru the chute twice a year. Spring breeding shots and fall pregging and ivomec. Our bulls winter in the hills getting hay. My daughter riding a green three yr old and myself picked up 13 of 16 bulls and trailed them 2 miles from the cows one afternoon and went back and found the other three the next day and then moved 300 plus cows to fresh grass. We picked up two bulls out of seperate PB herds with the trailer, five panels and a tub of pellets. Today we chased a foot rot cow into the trailer in two trys in the middle of the pasture and moved five other cows to a little corral in the nieghbors pasture again with the green horse and my self. We handle our cows quietly when we do handle them. My wife used to calf check with the quad some. She could ride up to a cow laying down and read it's tag without the cow getting up. We have friends that comment about riding up and thru our cows without them running off. That's something they can't do at other places they help. We calve on the grass and want our cows to be some protective.
 
Larrry said:
DJL, let me tell you a little story. I had a friend that would go and buy dogs from a breeder. The best bunch of dogs you ever saw. Well he ended up buying three of them over a span. Durned if everyone of them dogs wasn't the highest strung thing you ever saw. Heck it even got two of them killed. Wonder why?
When I was into the blacks I bought them from a breeder that raised other breeds. Well I bought some of all these breeds. When you went and looked at them the blacks always hit the back of the pen. The other breeds didn't. Well this went on for a few years and I got my belly full of that crap. So the blacks got a free ride to town. Heck some of them even had some of that high powered Ankony breeding :lol:

Sounds to me like a problem with how the owners handle the animals--both dogs and cows...
I've seen some Herefords that were off and running if they saw you from 3 miles away-- but it was the way they had been handled....
 
Larrry said:
I'll take Hereford or many other breeds over the blacks. It is not worth it having a family member or employee killed over some lunatic black bull with a thorn up his bt. Or a irrate black momma who goes way past just being a good momma and gets in the phase of being possesed. No thanks, some things I will not compromise on. Besides I am getting to old to have to look over my shoulder all the time and be ready to climb a fence at a moments notice. I sold my blacks for that reason and I ain't going back, Nope ain't gonna do it.

I have a friend who got his teeth knocked out and his collar bone broke this spring and it was a Hereford that did it the black bull just went on by but the hereford got hooky.There's all type's in all breed's.
 

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