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SRM and ignorance running rampant!

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Randy, you pose really good questions but the one I would pose to you is simply this: Since you are not convinced that animals younger than 30 months can be infected with BSE, how is it possible that PrPsc can be detected in their urine, their blood and subsequently in the brain and lymphatic system? Age is not a factor for any disease - period! The big stumbling block that most people cannot get over is the fact that this disease has a fairly long incubation period and subsequently, clinical symptoms do not show until the number of vacuoles in the brain begin to impede the function of the brain and thus, clinical symptoms begin to show themselves with deadly certainty. But, having said that, would you eat meat from that animal a week, a month, a year or even a day before the symptoms showed up?? Chances are, if you were in the UK just prior to or during the BSE outbreaks there, you might want to pee in a bottle and get it checked, especially if you ate meat and meat by-products. Thousands of animals in the UK walked happily down the shute to the kill floor and showed no signs of a hiccup let alone BSE and that continued right up to and actually during the first weeks of the outbreak. In fact, it was during the early part of the first year of the outbreak that 300,000 tons of offal was shipped to mainland Europe (France) without any concerns at all. So, one might say that Governments either did not wish to impede trade or simply did not act fast enough to prevent the spread of the disease. All I can tell you here is that an animal can be host to PrPsc and show no signs of being ill - period, in the early part of the infection when PrPsc has manifested itself in great numbers in the brain! That animal, in my humble opinion, still represents a danger to you and me and therefore, I do support mandatory full scale testing for a number of reasons and that one alone is a pretty darn good one to begin with in my opinion. Ron.
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You are reading me wrong Ron, I am saying that I do believe that Misfolded Prions can be detected at any age. Get it. I believe that part. I don't believe that they have been infected by an agent to get those misfolded prions but rather have been individually "poisoned" to cause thier naturally occuring prions to become misfolded. This is the main source of disagreement between us and it is possible to leave this alone while we discuss other things. I have accomplished this feat with many a person.

What I am saying that unlike the faulty research that continues to try to explain the feed transmission and species leap theory ----- the story could be put to rest ---- once and for all---- if we were to pee test humans who eat Big Macs. Ten bucks a shot ---- Hell man thats only about 3 Big Macs.

I would also like to take the opportunity to agree with my Valentine Terry's post about the UK being the only problematic country SHOULD the feed transmission story be true. AND expound on the fact that there have been and are more than the three or four mad cows that we have dug up in North America. If this BSE thing is on course to eliminate humans from the face of the earth, why not stop it in it's tracks. Test every damn cow, test every damn human and lets get on with this. Okay not evey one, but let's get serious at least. Servailance is a joke, and testing humans would certainly prove the species leap theory one way or another.
 
The National Prion Surveillance Center at Case Western has a pee test for doctor's to send samples from patients still alive.
 
mike wrote;


> The National Prion Surveillance Center at Case Western has a pee test
> for doctor's to send samples from patients still alive.


this is a new one on me, can you please confirm this mike???


terry
 
rkaiser said:
That's great Mike, we caould simply set up a pipeline system from every MacDonalds straight to the lab.

Are you in?
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But that would not fit the BSEconomics structure. The testing labs/manufacturer would be making more money than the producer, packer, OR Mickey D's all put together. :wink:
 
mike wrote;


> The National Prion Surveillance Center at Case Western has a pee test
> for doctor's to send samples from patients still alive.


flounder wrote:

this is a new one on me, can you please confirm this mike???


terry



reader the second wrote;



When you get the 14-3-3 test, they also suggest you send in urine and blood, as well as spinal fluid. Or at least as of 2003. UCSF is also testing various bodily fluids. With the illness being so horrific and rapid, families are not inclined to think about supporting research, they're focused on surviving. So it makes this type of research hard to implement.



THATS all well and good, but to date, there is NO validated URINE test to test victims for TSE that i am aware of. the way it was written left the impression that there was, like just send in a pee test and well tell you if you have cjd. it just does not work that way, yet. maybe someday, but to date, the only way to confirm CJD or any human TSE is after death brain autopsy. ...TSS
 
Well then Terry, I guess that your theories are safe for now. But as soon as that pee test is accepted, Mike and I will have our pipeline in place.

Who cares if the testers make a few bucks, I just want those burger sales to pick up so that Tyson and Cargill send us ranchers part of them there profits. :wink:
 
You two are correct. The urinalysis is still in research. But it's still a test with WB procedures, so I understand. I would guess that this goes hand in hand with the research they are doing on Ron's test.
 
Mike wrote:
The National Prion Surveillance Center at Case Western has a pee test for doctor's to send samples from patients still alive.
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The United States National Prion Surveillance Center at Case Western, in their Pathology Lab, is where our test was confirmed. It does utilize Western Blot. It was confirmed by Dr. Shu G. Chen and Dr. Ayuna Dagdanova. I talked with Ayuna today and will be chatting with her again on Saturday. Our Urine test was proven with the help of a mix of 20 staff and known CJD patients at Case Western University Hospital. In all tests, our urine test was 100% effective in detecting PrPsc in human urine. We conducted a base-line test using the urine taken from staff and patients at first morning pass and again at noon and in the evening. The test was set up to also include samples taken from a known Alzheimers patient but this was coded to be included as part of a blind screening. Nobody in the lab knew about this one. The test identified all of the CJD patients and questions came up regarding the results of one test that showed a marker at a different KDa position. This one was then identified as the Alzheimer patient. Needless to say, we are really excited about the potential for our test. We also included a test protocol within the main testing and proving that included a "Spiking Test." Brain tissue from a known CJD patient who donated his organs for science was added to a urine sample taken from an already tested subject (proven negative) and the result of the test using our test kit was that we identifed PrPsc in the resulting sample. Flounder, I am extremely hopefull that our test, once validated, will do a lot to help identify the earliest possible detection of CJD and Alzheimer's Disease. Ron.
 
Mike wrote:

The National Prion Surveillance Center at Case Western has a pee test for doctor's to send samples from patients still alive.
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Reader the Second wrote:
A number of places are testing whether prions are detectable in urine, mucous, and blood of CJD victims. It's not being used as a reliable and accepted diagnostic.]

Part of the problem is gettingthe authorities involved. Governments have been aware of the test for almost 3 years now. We introduced the test to the CFIA in early 2003 and to the USDA at Aimes, Iowa later that year. The level of interest was somewhere between zero and parting one's hair!! The answers we got from each was that it had to be validated. We then introduced the test to EFSA in Brussels as part of the first step toward validation. We attempted to get it included in the then current round of validations. Our application was not reviewed until after the deadline and even though some board members of the EFSA attempted, on our behalf to get it included, the policies were there to stop any "late comers." So, we then received a letter from the Chairman of the EFSA suggesting that we undertake to validate here in North America. He even sent us the EFSA Official Testing/Validation Protocol for us to adhere to. We are now in the position to undertake the validation. Case Western, The National Prion Surveillance Lads have agreed to conduct the validation and have also agreed to allow a simultaneous validation at another internationaly recognized lab in oder to provide a seriously heavy body of evidence upon completion of the validation procedure. This procedure takes approximately two years. We intend to begin this year to validate our test for BSE, Scrapie, CJD, CWD and Alzheimers. Yes, we have high hopes and huge goals, but we are determined to succeed because we know we have an exciting and proven product that we know can make a difference to so many.
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Yep Ron good to hear...As a person who cared for a Alzheimer uncle for several years I hope they start getting some answers...

And as a person who spent 30 years as a Coroner, I've always felt that Alzheimers was one disease that was not looked hard enough at- especially with the big rise in frequency...I also think that their could easily have been many elderly that were diagnosed as Alzheimers that could actually been suffering from a TSE of some type- as few were ever posted for confirmatory diagnosis after death.....
 
I agree Oldtimer, the sooner the better! I work daily with Alzheimer clients! It is by far THE most devastating disease there is.You lose self,and families loses long before death! Any test that will help find this as soon as possible is great.There are meds that will slow down the process,and a PET scan will tell what part of brain the disease is in,which also helps family and family caregivers deal better with the person behind the Alzheimers.....Very dear topic to my heart!!!
 
Econ101, it is way far too soon to offer the congrats - but thank you for the sentiment. All we can do is go ahead with the validation and hope that the data resulting from it turns the right heads in our direction. Until then, we do not wish to count chickens. Patience is the key to this and as confident as we are, we still have to deal with the power which make the final decisions.
 
bse-tester said:
Econ101, it is way far too soon to offer the congrats - but thank you for the sentiment. All we can do is go ahead with the validation and hope that the data resulting from it turns the right heads in our direction. Until then, we do not wish to count chickens. Patience is the key to this and as confident as we are, we still have to deal with the power which make the final decisions.
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If you get that test available for Alzheimers, the bse thing will be a sideshow. Alzheimer's has a much different road and possibly less obstacles than the bse route. Either way, I wish you all the luck.
 

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