Who's everyone supporting and why?

[Anonymous]

Dems can't do any worse.......[/b]

Ask the parents of the 3,000 people that died at the World Trade Centers. If Clinton would have fought back on some of the many times we were attacked under his watch maybe they would be alive today.

Ask the people that suffered financially during the Recession at the end of the Clinton administration.

Ask some of the people that suffered through Obama and Hillary type leadership during the Carter days.

.

Not withstanding your normal namecalling which has really soured me as to the type folks I have for years associated as Republicans (altho I know I should not use you as a Republican model :roll: )- I lived thru all those years- and while things may not have been the greatest at all times, and folks weren't always happy with the way things were going-- I have never seen a time period when people had such a lack of confidence in the economy or their government- and they and the world mistrusted their government so much as they do now under the guise of leadership provided by GW.....

 

[aplusmnt]

I have never seen a time period when people had such a lack of confidence in the economy or their government- and they and the world mistrusted their government so much as they do now under the guise of leadership provided by GW.....

Do you remember Vietnam?


And i have faith you will live through this economy with out even loosing your Internet connection or Satellite TV :wink:

 

[Steve]

GP

If you look at the last Democrat administration, you will find a balanced budget,

if you look at the current democratic leadership, you will find record earmarks and pork spending..

"This year's (defense) bill includes 2,671 parochial and politically motivated earmarks worth $12.2 billion, both record highs. These projects were not requested by the President, but were instead inserted at the request of individual legislators while the bill was in subcommittee, committee, or conference committee."
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_pigbook2008_database

"In fiscal year 2008, Congress stuffed 11,610 projects (the second highest total ever) worth $17.2 billion into the 12 appropriations bills. That is a 337 percent increase over the 2,658 projects in fiscal year 2007, and a 30 percent increase over the $13.2 billion total in fiscal year 2007."
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_pigbook2008_database


""Pork barrel spending," McCain says, "is an insult to taxpayers,""
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_pigbook2008_database

yet Obama had no problem shoveling 34.44 million into the defense bill.. :roll: :roll: :wink:

 

[Steve]

OldTimer

I have never seen a time period when people had such a lack of confidence in the economy or their government-

I guess you missed carter's "The threat is nearly invisible in ordinary ways. It is a crisis of confidence. It is a crisis that strikes at the very heart and soul and spirit of our national will. We can see this crisis in the growing doubt about the meaning of our own lives and in the loss of a unity of purpose for our nation."

and his introduction of the misery index: "During the Presidential campaign of 1976, Democratic candidate, Jimmy Carter, made frequent references to the Misery Index, which by the summer of 1976 was at 13.57%. Carter stated that no man responsible for giving a country a misery index that high, had a right to even ask to be President. Carter won the 1976 election. However, by 1980, when President Carter was running for re-election against Ronald Reagan, the Misery Index had reached an all-time high of 21.98%."

or
FHA 30 year fixed mortgage were over 14% and rising,... By the time Carter left office, the prime rate was 21.5% -- a new record.

Unemployment was over 10%. Real wages were stagnant or declining. Inflation was over 10%.

 

[Anonymous]

OldTimer

I have never seen a time period when people had such a lack of confidence in the economy or their government-

I guess you missed carter's "The threat is nearly invisible in ordinary ways. It is a crisis of confidence. It is a crisis that strikes at the very heart and soul and spirit of our national will. We can see this crisis in the growing doubt about the meaning of our own lives and in the loss of a unity of purpose for our nation."

and his introduction of the misery index: "During the Presidential campaign of 1976, Democratic candidate, Jimmy Carter, made frequent references to the Misery Index, which by the summer of 1976 was at 13.57%. Carter stated that no man responsible for giving a country a misery index that high, had a right to even ask to be President. Carter won the 1976 election. However, by 1980, when President Carter was running for re-election against Ronald Reagan, the Misery Index had reached an all-time high of 21.98%."

or
FHA 30 year fixed mortgage were over 14% and rising,... By the time Carter left office, the prime rate was 21.5% -- a new record.

Unemployment was over 10%. Real wages were stagnant or declining. Inflation was over 10%.

I remember Carters time well- during his term I got promoted, built a new house, had 3 kids, drove a brand new pickup (and wife had a new car)...ALL the family Health Insurance was paid by my employer...The only part of the misery index that hit here was the fuel shortage and interest rates (house rate was 11%- that was later refinanced down)---but everyone around here seemed to have much more money in their pockets- and there wasn't such disparity between haves and have nots... Many farmer/ranchers (including myself) expanded their holdings during that time period altho they were paying exorbitant rates- as they weren't competing with the high costs set by millionaire investors and Corporate tax dodgers- and land values actually went down...And altho the rates were high and Jimmy had his grain embargo- they actually were making more spendable income than they are now- with the past 10-15 years of false inflation rates put out by the government...Good jobs/wages were everywhere up here- with seismographing, oil drilling, the Northern Border pipeline construction, etc. etc....

The real misery index didn't hit here until a few years later- when the FTA's and eventually NAFTA negatively depressed the states economy by impacting our major industrys'- cattle, oil, lumber, and mining....I'm a firm believer in the fact that different areas of the country suffer differing time periods of recession or downturns- sometimes years before or after other areas do- and because of differing sets of causation....Actually the Reagan/Clinton free trader period negatively affected locally more than Jimmy Carter did...

Right now what is impacting Montana the most is the fuel costs- which not only is negatively impacting production costs- but since all finished product has to be shipped in- and all raw material has to be shipped out.....That is followed by the deflating buying power of the dollar- and the huge raise in health care/Insurance costs- and altho grain prices look optomistic ( ), the cattle side is not looking overly promising.....

And as a state made up of many senior citizens- many have lost huge loss's in the markets and their investment portfolios they will never see- and several State investment funds (schools mainly) are balancing on the edge of bankruptcy...

 

[Mike]

The Carter days were a trainwreck down here. For sure. With the grain embargo and the high price of fuel there were many, many family farms lost to the banks in those 20% interest days after farmland prices hit rock bottom.

Soybean prices went from $12.00 to $4.00 overnight without any warning. :roll:

Dad said one time back then, from looking at the neighbors, that it was almost as bad as the depression in the 20's and 30's.

 

[Red Robin]

The Carter days were a trainwreck down here.

It was everywhere Mike.

 

[Anonymous]

The Carter days were a trainwreck down here. For sure. With the grain embargo and the high price of fuel there were many, many family farms lost to the banks in those 20% interest days after farmland prices hit rock bottom.

Soybean prices went from $12.00 to $4.00 overnight without any warning. :roll:

Dad said one time back then, from looking at the neighbors, that it was almost as bad as the depression in the 20's and 30's.

Yep- and thats why I believe it hits regionally at differing times and sometimes with almost exactly opposite results...I remember reading about farm foreclosures and stuff- but none of it really hit up here until in the 80's (Posse Comitatus days)- when we had severe drought and then on into the 90's (Freemen days)--when FSA was doing all their foreclosing... It wasn't until during the 90's as reefer after reefer of cheap Canadian swinging beef along with a continual trail of Canadian bullhaulers all headed south and cull prices were around $15- that several of the cattle operations folded....

In fact many of the wheat farmers went to work for the pipelines and oil companies in their off times and really profitted- renting out their trucks to the oil companies and tractors and equipment to the pipeline reseeding lines- and made more money than ever before- with the pipelines paying up to $30 hour for inspectors and supervisors even back then (1980)...But most of those oil jobs dryed up with NAFTA- and have been nonexistant until just the last couple of years....

Actually Reagan devastated the local economies and communities more with the CRP program- which along with NAFTA almost bankrupt this state....I remember the county and state governments were in such bad shape- that many of the counties almost shut the doors to the Courthouse- some Sheriffs wouldn't even extradite a prisoner from a neighboring county unless it was a major felony or crime of violence....My 1995 gas budget was under $300 a month for a 6 man force to patrol a county larger than the state of Delaware :shock: ....

 

[Texan]

Those deadbeats on welfare are minor children of single white women, anyway last I heard that is the typical welfare recipient. They would have to go to China or India to get a job. I here those little girls are really good a rolling cigarettes, I think they are called bennies or something like that.

Do you have a source to back that up? Not that it really matters. I doubt seriously if any "minor children" are getting welfare checks - no matter what color they are.

Why even bring race into the discussion? I never said a word about any particular race - I just mentioned deadbeats on welfare. You libs always have to use race to try to divide the country. Pathetic.

I was talking about deadbeats on welfare. I don't give a sht if they're white deadbeats, black deadbeats or brown deadbeats. As long as people are able to work, there's plenty of jobs out there for them if they really want to work.

 

[Frankk]

Those deadbeats on welfare are minor children of single white women, anyway last I heard that is the typical welfare recipient. They would have to go to China or India to get a job. I here those little girls are really good a rolling cigarettes, I think they are called bennies or something like that.

Do you have a source to back that up? Not that it really matters. I doubt seriously if any "minor children" are getting welfare checks - no matter what color they are.

Why even bring race into the discussion? I never said a word about any particular race - I just mentioned deadbeats on welfare. You libs always have to use race to try to divide the country. Pathetic.

I was talking about deadbeats on welfare. I don't give a sht if they're white deadbeats, black deadbeats or brown deadbeats. As long as people are able to work, there's plenty of jobs out there for them if they really want to work.

They give the check to their parent, in most cases a single female, she then buys food, shelter and clothing for the child. You may not like the parent but it is not the childs fault. This is how I see welfare money being spent and don't begrudge a penny of it.

 

[Cal]

Those deadbeats on welfare are minor children of single white women, anyway last I heard that is the typical welfare recipient. They would have to go to China or India to get a job. I here those little girls are really good a rolling cigarettes, I think they are called bennies or something like that.

Do you have a source to back that up? Not that it really matters. I doubt seriously if any "minor children" are getting welfare checks - no matter what color they are.

Why even bring race into the discussion? I never said a word about any particular race - I just mentioned deadbeats on welfare. You libs always have to use race to try to divide the country. Pathetic.

I was talking about deadbeats on welfare. I don't give a sht if they're white deadbeats, black deadbeats or brown deadbeats. As long as people are able to work, there's plenty of jobs out there for them if they really want to work.

They give the check to their parent, in most cases a single female, she then buys food, shelter and clothing for the child. You may not like the parent but it is not the childs fault. This is how I see welfare money being spent and don't begrudge a penny of it.

I'm sure they're much more prudent with their welfare checks there in Missouri, but around here you pretty much see them drank up and gambled with....not to mention the thriving drug traffic. Hey, I geuss drinking and gambling are taxed! So the more welfare paid out the more taxes are collected.....you libs are really onto something!!!

 

[CattleArmy]

Personally, I'd like the deadbeats on welfare to start getting taxes withheld. They're the sob's getting something for nothing.

There ya go talking out of your butt again. :roll:

Do you honestly think that every person getting welfare is a deadbeat? Bad things and luck happen to good people. Some people I am associated with througth my job work two and three jobs just trying to make ends meet and still cannot.

What about our health care system that puts so many Americans in financial trouble? If you can't afford health insurance how in the world is one ever going to pay off a huge bill incurred by illness and still manage to make ends meet.

I think it's much to easy for some to lump everyone on welfare with the people who do abuse the system. The point I think some miss on here is that some people need it to simply put food on their table and survive.

 

[Goodpasture]

Those deadbeats on welfare are minor children of single white women, anyway last I heard that is the typical welfare recipient. They would have to go to China or India to get a job. I here those little girls are really good a rolling cigarettes, I think they are called bennies or something like that.

Do you have a source to back that up? Not that it really matters. ..............You libs always have to use race to try to divide the country. Pathetic.

Welcome to the lib side, Frankk

 

[aplusmnt]

The Carter days were a trainwreck down here.

It was everywhere Mike.

Hit my family hard in Oklahoma, parents had to sell their 40 acres of land and home in the country to move us to town. Dad lost his job at local plant and became a truck driver.

 

[Texan]

They give the check to their parent, in most cases a single female, she then buys food, shelter and clothing for the child. You may not like the parent but it is not the childs fault. This is how I see welfare money being spent and don't begrudge a penny of it.

Frank, I don't disagree with you that it's not the child's fault. But if you think that's the only way that welfare money is being spent, you need to open your eyes. If you would open your eyes and look around, you would see that those checks aren't always spent on food because there are other payments that take care of food. Little, if any, of those checks are spent on shelter because Section 8 housing vouchers pay for most, if not all, of the housing for many of them. There are even different government programs that provide free clothing for those kids.

If you would open your eyes when you're at the grocery store, you would see many of those recipients of checks using whatever version of food stamps that your state has. In Texas, it's a card much like a debit card. They swipe it through the machine to pay for their qualified food purchases. That way, they can use their cash to buy cartons of cigarettes.

When they try to purchase dog food on their card and it is declined, they go back to get pork chops because, "my dog like poke chops better anyways." When they leave the grocery store, they still have cash left over so they go straight to the beer store to get a twenty pack and a handful of lottery tickets.

They ride around all day drinking beer and burning three dollar gas throwing beer cans and lottery tickets and cigarette butts out the window - looks like they could at least consider it their 'job' to dispose of their own trash properly. All the while, they're yakking away on the latest model of cell phone that must come with a plan with a gazillion minutes on it.

You should talk to some of the people that work in the grocery stores, too. They can tell you some stories that would really pisss you off. Well, maybe not YOU, because you're a typical liberal that is more interested in 'feeling good' about the intent of the program instead of opening your eyes enough to see the flaws.

But if you ever talk to any of those people that work at the grocery store, they could tell you about the people who fill their shopping cart up with gallons and gallons of milk paid for through the WIC program - who go right out the door and sell them for cash in pre-arranged meetings - normally right in the store parking lot. Some of them even have regular schedules - meeting the same people at the same time every week. Many of these 'entrepreneurs' live better than most of us.

I know of one employee who complained about a situation like that only to be reprimanded because "it's not any of our business what they do with it after they buy it." It seems that it isn't politically correct to point out the thievery, fraud and abuse in those programs. People like you add to that problem, Frank. You add to it because you're not interested in the truth, just interested in being a warm and fuzzy, feel-good liberal.

Granted, those situations don't represent ALL of the people getting government assistance. And I've never claimed that they did. But they damn sure represent way too many. Deadbeat thieves like those not only steal money from me, they are stealing assistance from those that actually need it. You libs can try to justify it all you want. But you have to really have your head stuck up your ass not to see it.

 

[Texan]

Personally, I'd like the deadbeats on welfare to start getting taxes withheld. They're the sob's getting something for nothing.

There ya go talking out of your butt again. :roll:

Do you honestly think that every person getting welfare is a deadbeat? Bad things and luck happen to good people. Some people I am associated with througth my job work two and three jobs just trying to make ends meet and still cannot.

What about our health care system that puts so many Americans in financial trouble? If you can't afford health insurance how in the world is one ever going to pay off a huge bill incurred by illness and still manage to make ends meet.

I think it's much to easy for some to lump everyone on welfare with the people who do abuse the system. The point I think some miss on here is that some people need it to simply put food on their table and survive.

Did I ever say that? Did I ever say that everybody getting welfare is a deadbeat? Hell, no.

I clearly stated that I would like to see "the deadbeats on welfare" start to get some taxes withheld - 100% would be a good start. If I had wanted to condemn everyone on welfare, I would have said, "everyone on welfare." Comprende?

Now....who's talking out of her ass? :lol:

 

[Frankk]

[
Granted, those situations don't represent ALL of the people getting government assistance. And I've never claimed that they did. But they damn sure represent way too many. Deadbeat thieves like those not only steal money from me, they are stealing assistance from those that actually need it. You libs can try to justify it all you want. But you have to really have your head stuck up your ass not to see it.

I don't see all the abuse you talk about, but maybe I'm not looking, I'm sure it probably occours but I can't see a way to punish them without punishing the children also. In my little word I have seen welfare work more than not.

 

[CattleArmy]

Personally, I'd like the deadbeats on welfare to start getting taxes withheld. They're the sob's getting something for nothing.

There ya go talking out of your butt again. :roll:

Do you honestly think that every person getting welfare is a deadbeat? Bad things and luck happen to good people. Some people I am associated with througth my job work two and three jobs just trying to make ends meet and still cannot.

What about our health care system that puts so many Americans in financial trouble? If you can't afford health insurance how in the world is one ever going to pay off a huge bill incurred by illness and still manage to make ends meet.

I think it's much to easy for some to lump everyone on welfare with the people who do abuse the system. The point I think some miss on here is that some people need it to simply put food on their table and survive.

Did I ever say that? Did I ever say that everybody getting welfare is a deadbeat? Hell, no.

I clearly stated that I would like to see "the deadbeats on welfare" start to get some taxes withheld - 100% would be a good start. If I had wanted to condemn everyone on welfare, I would have said, "everyone on welfare." Comprende?

Now....who's talking out of her ass? :lol:

Not me! My mouth and fingers run enough my ass doesn't have a chance!

I took your post as meaning the deadbeats on welfare........meaning anyone collecting welfare. Thank you for your clarification maybe you aren't as bad as I thought!

 

[Texan]

...maybe you aren't as bad as I thought!

Don't count on it. :wink:

I don't mind admitting that there are some people that need our help. As you say, good people can fall on bad times and have bad luck. It could happen to any of us. And it's not just the fraud and abuse that I dislike. The main thing that pisses me off is the culture of welfare that we have fostered in this country.

There are whole families who do nothing for a living - never have, never will. Yet they are able-bodied. They have had the same access to public education that others have had. They have had access to better health care than many of us. There's no reason why they can't work - except they just don't want to work. Because they don't have to. Their momma didn't work, their granny didn't work and their kids won't work.

The liberal politicians have been successful in creating this culture of dependence. Except they won't admit that it is a culture of dependence - the liberal politicians refer to them as constituents and it isn't politically correct to criticize them. Welfare is the liberal politician's sacred cow. It isn't sacred to me.

 

[CattleArmy]

[
But you have to really have your head stuck up your ass not to see it.

Texan is speaking from experience to viewing life in the above mentioned manner.