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Why the downward slide?
- Thread starter Grandad
- Start date
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Having a label does not make for quality - - - I just want to know where my food comes from. Is that shrimp from China? Where were those oranges grown?
I just want to know - - - mostly why I fill my own freezer!
I just want to know - - - mostly why I fill my own freezer!
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
George what if you sold some pit run gravel to another crusher and he ground it down to sand and put it on some roads. The county didn't want sand they wanted 1 inch crush would they call that sand "Product of George" because it came from your pit?
Or would it be "Product of XX Crushing" that made it into sand?
Or would it be "Product of XX Crushing" that made it into sand?
cows101 said:Thats the reason for the label Silver so the packers quit fiddling with it :wink:Silver said:If it's coming into your country ready to eat it should be labeled with it's country of origin. If you fiddle with it after it gets there it's yours. Quite simple really.
So you are saying the packers shouldn't pack (fiddle with it). That makes sense. Or are you just saying you don't want foreign cattle packed in your country (protectionist)?
Big Muddy rancher said:George what if you sold some pit run gravel to another crusher and he ground it down to sand and put it on some roads. The county didn't want sand they wanted 1 inch crush would they call that sand "Product of George" because it came from your pit?
Or would it be "Product of XX Crushing" that made it into sand?
Valid question - - - Nothing is perfect but the product could still be traced
I don't think packers should take some water buffalo from a third world country with no standards and mix it with mine and your beef. Then say it is north american, when some one gets ecoli blame it on your beef and mine. Thats bull in my book. What % of ecoli come from this foreign grind? Thats past off as your beef and mine.Silver said:cows101 said:Thats the reason for the label Silver so the packers quit fiddling with it :wink:Silver said:If it's coming into your country ready to eat it should be labeled with it's country of origin. If you fiddle with it after it gets there it's yours. Quite simple really.
So you are saying the packers shouldn't pack (fiddle with it). That makes sense. Or are you just saying you don't want foreign cattle packed in your country (protectionist)?
I sure don't have any proublem with Canada beef.
We have to work half the year to pay for taxes and the other half to pay for Obuma care maybe Canada could take ND as a 11 province Hell you can call it the 4th territory.
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
George said:Big Muddy rancher said:George what if you sold some pit run gravel to another crusher and he ground it down to sand and put it on some roads. The county didn't want sand they wanted 1 inch crush would they call that sand "Product of George" because it came from your pit?
Or would it be "Product of XX Crushing" that made it into sand?
Valid question - - - Nothing is perfect but the product could still be traced
Canada has a national ID system in place to trace cattle.
Does the USA?
Just maybe E coli contamination of beef has become some sort of red herring, and is now irrelevant. The Centers for Disease Control says that in a multi-year period beginning in 2006 there were three deaths due to eating contaminated meat, and 32 from eating salad vegetables!
BTW, when was the last time a major USA packer been charged with mixing in un-named meat and trying to pass it off as beef?
I realize some producers love to hate packers and blame all sorts of under-handed illegal practices on them, but over all, they cleaned up their act generations ago and the cattle business would be a lot more difficult for us if they were suddenly put out of business, imo. I can't imagine how awful it would be if the packing industry were to be managed by government! Just look at the welfare system, of the VA and tell us the system we have for processing and distributing beef couldn't be worse than it is with the current management!
mrj
BTW, when was the last time a major USA packer been charged with mixing in un-named meat and trying to pass it off as beef?
I realize some producers love to hate packers and blame all sorts of under-handed illegal practices on them, but over all, they cleaned up their act generations ago and the cattle business would be a lot more difficult for us if they were suddenly put out of business, imo. I can't imagine how awful it would be if the packing industry were to be managed by government! Just look at the welfare system, of the VA and tell us the system we have for processing and distributing beef couldn't be worse than it is with the current management!
mrj
Do you remember Horse meat do you think if this foreign meat was tested they might find horse meat in it?mrj said:Just maybe E coli contamination of beef has become some sort of red herring, and is now irrelevant. The Centers for Disease Control says that in a multi-year period beginning in 2006 there were three deaths due to eating contaminated meat, and 32 from eating salad vegetables!
BTW, when was the last time a major USA packer been charged with mixing in un-named meat and trying to pass it off as beef?
I realize some producers love to hate packers and blame all sorts of under-handed illegal practices on them, but over all, they cleaned up their act generations ago and the cattle business would be a lot more difficult for us if they were suddenly put out of business, imo. I can't imagine how awful it would be if the packing industry were to be managed by government! Just look at the welfare system, of the VA and tell us the system we have for processing and distributing beef couldn't be worse than it is with the current management!
mrj
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Not likely, I remember a friend work at Fort McLeod years back where they killed Horse and Bison. He wanted to buy some Bison and jokingly said make sure I don't get Horse meat and he was told not likely as horse meat was worth twice what the Bison was.
I don't know when they decided to test ground beef in UK and Irland they found most all of it containd horse and pork some up to 100% horse. How confident are you they don't bring it over here if we don't test it.
cows101 said:I don't know when they decided to test ground beef in UK and Irland they found most all of it containd horse and pork some up to 100% horse. How confident are you they don't bring it over here if we don't test it.
What was the date of that, and where in the UK? Isn't it rather common to eat horse meat in Europe, and does that practice also take place in the UK as a 'normal' practice? BTW, aren't countries we import beef from required to have inspections comparable to ours, with checks by our system? In other words, do we know your premise of illegal horse meat coming into the USA actually occurred?
Haven't England and Scotland, at the least, updated their testing recently, say in the past couple of years? I believe I read something to that effect within the past four months. How much beef is usually exported to the USA by the UK? Is it common cuts, or specialty meats? Are all of the UK divisions, such as Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England under the same inspection system? What about European countries, are they individually managing, or is it under the EU? I'd not given it much thought till I heard about the changes a few months ago, considering the ban, then the stringent rules since 'mad cow' disease years ago.
mrj
cows101 said:I don't know when they decided to test ground beef in UK and Irland they found most all of it containd horse and pork some up to 100% horse. How confident are you they don't bring it over here if we don't test it.
Near as I can figure it this has nothing at all to with the price of rice in China. The problem is the segregation of Canadian born cattle or cattle that have visited Canada being slaughtered in the US. If your packing plants can't tell the difference between a cow and a horse I sure as hell don't want a maple leaf associated with the product in any way shape or form.
Once again, if the product underwent significant change in your country it's a product of your country. Canadian apples imported into the US and turned into apple pie creates a pie that is the product of the US. It's just the way it works. If you don't believe me just read the trade agreements our gov'ts have signed on our behalf.
If I remember right it was in 2012 .Seem to me just about ever sample of beef burger had horse meat mixed in. They lost over 40% of beef demand because of consumer confidence. Yes they updated testing over there. We need to do the same here but we have the good old boys club here and its not going to happen packers don't want to so they won't. Any one that think there is no way there is horse mixed with hamburger here is a little nieve. Did you tast this store burger no wonder per capita beef consumption ceeps dropping That stuff is terriblemrj said:cows101 said:I don't know when they decided to test ground beef in UK and Irland they found most all of it containd horse and pork some up to 100% horse. How confident are you they don't bring it over here if we don't test it.
What was the date of that, and where in the UK? Isn't it rather common to eat horse meat in Europe, and does that practice also take place in the UK as a 'normal' practice? BTW, aren't countries we import beef from required to have inspections comparable to ours, with checks by our system? In other words, do we know your premise of illegal horse meat coming into the USA actually occurred?
Haven't England and Scotland, at the least, updated their testing recently, say in the past couple of years? I believe I read something to that effect within the past four months. How much beef is usually exported to the USA by the UK? Is it common cuts, or specialty meats? Are all of the UK divisions, such as Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England under the same inspection system? What about European countries, are they individually managing, or is it under the EU? I'd not given it much thought till I heard about the changes a few months ago, considering the ban, then the stringent rules since 'mad cow' disease years ago.
mrj
I had a banker tell me yesterday that you would eventually see five weight calves around $1. If you go back over the last year or so virtually no one predicted what we are seeing. Some decrease in price and steady expansion yes, but not the current wreck. The same people will still deny how manipulated and controlled what was once a free market has become. There is really no cash market for fat cattle and so real way to determine what they are worth. That is where packer concentration and captive supply gets you. And now you are seeing it in feeder cattle. What was left of independent feeders have lost untold millions in equity. There is a reason why cattle have become this cheap, there is no one bidding on them. If you wanted to eliminate your competition for feeder cattle what better way than to use your ever increasing leverage to break the cattle market when lots were full of some of the highest priced cattle on record. There was a reason packers quit discounting over weight carcasses then started discounting them again. Just as there is a reason the packers helped buy the end of COOL.
Faster horses
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I don't know about what Angus 62 posted about the packers. I can't believe they would want to break their suppliers,but I do know we have one customer who has cattle finished in the feedlot in Nebraska and he can't get a bid on those cattle.
They want vertical integration...Faster horses said:I don't know about what Angus 62 posted about the packers. I can't believe they would want to break their suppliers,but I do know we have one customer who has cattle finished in the feedlot in Nebraska and he can't get a bid on those cattle.
The Five Rivers lots owned by JBS have a capacity of just short of a million head, captive supply. That is why they don't need to bid on other cattle. Actually they don't bid, that would mean there was actual competition instead of take it or leave it. Which is what packer concentration does for you.
Brad S
Well-known member
I'm as bad as anyone at packer bashing I guess, but six months ago, a year ago and 2 years ago packers were losing a lot of money. We didn't care much back then about their troubles.
Whoever mentioned $1 calves might be right. (In round numbers) We're only $15 above $1 fed beef and trending down. Feed yard cog is $1 - there's your $1 calves there unless there's a stocker feeder with someone money left to feed on wheat pasture. If fats go to a buck, and corn rallies, we could see less than $1 calves.
FH, something isn't right with your friends situation, and I'm guessing the feed yard has "other cattle" higher on the show list. Ol sneaky mr packer ain't bashful about gut shooting a bid. About the only advantage commercial feeders have over private feeders is "access to buyers." I prolly already said too much, but showing up at the feed yard is good business.
Whoever mentioned $1 calves might be right. (In round numbers) We're only $15 above $1 fed beef and trending down. Feed yard cog is $1 - there's your $1 calves there unless there's a stocker feeder with someone money left to feed on wheat pasture. If fats go to a buck, and corn rallies, we could see less than $1 calves.
FH, something isn't right with your friends situation, and I'm guessing the feed yard has "other cattle" higher on the show list. Ol sneaky mr packer ain't bashful about gut shooting a bid. About the only advantage commercial feeders have over private feeders is "access to buyers." I prolly already said too much, but showing up at the feed yard is good business.