Loos Angus Cow Herd dispersal and more...

[Faster horses]

We got a catalog from Loos Angus. I dont' know anything about them,
but we have been getting a catalog from Touchtone Angus for awhile
now. Touchstone Angus has focused on easily maintained cattle.
They are selling some cows at the Loos sale. Touchstone is touting
grass-fat cattle. Here's some of what is printed on Touchstones flyer.

Our entire cowherd is closely bred and each individual traces over
100 times in their extended pedigree to an angus bull born in 1927
named "Emulous".

*Selected and Tested for Tenderness
We began progeny testing sires utilizing the Warner/Bratzler
test and were among the first to utilize the DNA tenderness tests.
Over hte last three years, all of our yearling bulls and heifers
were scanned with the innovative Designer Genes ultrasound
test for tenderness, marbling and ribeye size/shape.

There is a lot more of course, but I thought this was interesting.

He said he believes there are 3 major drivers that will
significantly change the landscape producers must operate in.
1. ETHANOL PRODUCTION will make corn and other traditional
feeds signficantly more costly requiring alternate finishing methods.
2. MANY PHYSICIAN and other dietary opinion leaders are
recommending grass finished beef as a 'health food" to their
patients and demand has skyrocketed. (my note here, "really? I
wonder if that can be proven?")

3. GREATER SEGMENTATION of retail beef products including new
branded beef programs created in response to strong consumer
demand in the US and abroad.


Anyhow the Loos Angus catalog can be viewed at Angus Journal
website, www.angusjournal.com

I hope some of you take a look and give some feedback here.
The looks of the cows suprise me with the pedigrees they have.

 

[IL Rancher]

Faster,

We sell grass lamb and some grassbeef... Their are doctors in Chicago handing out names of producers in the state who sell it and the phone is ringing.. Is it better for you? I don't know.. Is organic better for you? Don't know, doesn't stop some people for having a demand for it..

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

Loos Angus...it's the one's that get out ever now n then, you know..them escapees...they've gathered up a herd and are havin a sale!!!! LOL

 

[Faster horses]

OH, Jersey Lilly, I just love the way you think!!!!!!!! :lol2:

IL RANCHER, thanks for the information. We are so rural
that we don't know what is going on like you would.
And even if it isn't better for you, the PRECEPTION that is,
seems to be enough for people to want it.

 

[IL Rancher]

Yep... Different areas are going to be different as well (Wow... sounds so deep, lol). there are some things changing in certain urban areas such as a look to eat as local as possible, to put a face to the product so to speak. State or Region of Orgin is more important to these folks if not actually seeing the farm/ranch of orgin.. Will this ever be a majority of folks even in these more metro areas. Nope, but being 2 hours away from 7 million people (Or whatver the population of that area is) means every percent that is interested is 70K people. So even if it is only half of percent that is a good sized town..

Brother lives in chicago and says at some estraunts now they have pictures of the producers of veggies and artisian Cheeses on the walls andnames in the menus...

 

[ET Doc]

FH,
We do Touchstone's ultrasound work, and part of their ET work. Brad and his family are really nice folks, and he seems to me to be a very intelligent man.
They sell their own branded grass fat beef, and there does seem to be quite a demand for it in the Denver-Fort Collins area.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, as Brad brings these innovations to a business as tradition bound as beef production is.
His cattle are smaller frame than a lot of Angus, but look pretty efficient to me.

 

[Denny]

I think cattle will be fed alot of Distillars in years to come. I don't see the grass fed program being very profitable.It takes Good Grass to grass fatten cattle.If corn stays at $4 or $5 a buschel it will cause alot more marginal acres to be planted to corn.There will still be demand for all other grains. Which will turn alot of hayland into cropland putting even more demand on pasture lands to be farmed.We are in the commodity businesstimes are changeing fast what we really need is cattle that will finish on straw,corn stalks,distillars grains and other byproducts.Grass finished sounds nice but with $2000 an acre land here I can see more corn than cattle.With all the development in corn genetics corn will be grown where it has'nt before it's been creeping across the Dakota's in the last few years and yields are good enough for it to pay.

Here a hayfield with $30 per acre in fertilizer will produce maybe 3 to 4 bales per acre we can buy hay for $10 to $30 per bale so at best its worth $120 with corn we can get a 100 buschels on a $125 an acre investment plus graze the stalks or bale them when we've baled we get around 4 to 6 bales per acre valued at $15 per bale at $3 corn x 100 buschel =$300 + $60 for bales for a $235 an acre gain vs a $90 figereing no rent,taxes or equipment cost's.I know I will be planting more corn on our high ground hayfields here we have plenty of low ground meadows for haying also.

Bottom line is the value of the land for grass finishing is not the best use of the land for the most profit and we are all profit driven.

There is alot of ground rented for $50 to $75 an acre just south of me I would be money ahead to rent out all the hayland for $50 an acre save the fertilizer money,fuel,twine, grease etc.go fishing and buy hay.

Grass finished will never take ahold in this country now South America is a different story.They are already produceing it in mass.But I would bet they lose grassland to farming as their infrastructure develop's

I talked with Tim Ohlde last spring and with the developement of the cattle and packing industry in south america he thought we had better figure out how to make a profit at .85 cent feeder calves.I dont think hes to far off.

 

[Faster horses]

Thanks, ET Doc. They seem really committed and I admire that.
They have gone some extra steps for their customers as well.

None of their cows were pictured in the catalog.
What do their cows weigh on average do you think?

 

[Jason]

The only Touchstone name I can think of is Century Touchstone. He made a brief apperance in some pedigrees up here. Never saw enough to make an opinion either way.

Loos was a name I remember from years back. I heard dad talk about them buying cows from him in the 70's.

I agree with Denny about the cost of land affecting grass fed beef. Pretty hard to pencil 8 acres per animal per summer here at $800-1000 an acre. You need that 8 acres to get the calf. Need another 8 to summer that calf the next year, plus you need hay to winter them. With no losses or interest or hay costs your at $640 per head grass costs at the low end of the land values. Add $50 for interest and $180 for hay (you have to feed the cow as well so 3 tons at $60). We're up to $870.

Figure a 1000 pound live weight at 60% dress, $35 to kill and $20 disposal, $300 to cut and wrap, $1225 for a 600 pound carcass. Break even is $2.04 a pound hanging weight, and we haven't figured any other overhead.

 

[Mike]

Faster Horses wrote:

Touchstone Angus has focused on easily maintained cattle.

Don't we all focus on "Easily Maintained" cattle?

Please define what you call "Easily Maintained".

Thanks in advance.

Mike

 

[IL Rancher]

When we sell grassfinished we get well over that a pound in hanging weigh Jason so it does pencil for us. We don't do it on any scale mind you.. We don't have th 20 buck disposal fee either. We have a 35 buck kill and a 30 cents a pound hang so on that one we are at 215 processing.... It is a niche market but some people are able to capitalize on it.. For many it might be cheaper to buy the steers and feed them on the grass instead of having the cow calf part of the operation but most don't think that way and you would have to find a reliable source of genetics that fit.

You have to be near the market that will do it and you have to understand that you are not competing with Walmart or even the local locker... Te closest thing you are competing with is the Whole foods type stores that are selling grass fed burger for 5-6 bucks a pound so when they buy an animal and are getting the whole or half or whatever the hanging price can be awful high. Heck, the good steaks are over 20 bucks a pound. Again, you need to be in a market with some excess money and folks who are going to spend it. Chicago can support this as can other Metro areas. But again, it is a niche market and I agree for the most part that it will never hit a huge market share unless things change drastically.

 

[Jason]

That's the heck of it IL. You need the $5-6 for burger due to the extra expense and lower production volumes to make a decent living. There are some people that will pay it, but it isn't a majority even in a city area.

In my numbers there isn't a profit, wages, taxes, minerals, deathloss, machinery or buildings cost. Easilly you would need $3 hanging weight to survive. And at that be able to move 100 head a year.

Moving a few animals provides some cash where the main herd is paying all the other costs. Going strictly a grassfed to finish operation, you have to pay everything from the sales.

The investment in land is over 1.2 million, can you get a 1% ROI on 100 head? You can't live on 1%, you'd need minimum of 3% to make 36k before taxes.

 

[IL Rancher]

To us it is a side business but we don't ever expect to market stuff to that extreme... .. No, the business is not nearly good enough to say, screw commercial beef, lets do it all this way.. I would need to be a much better marketer than I am.. As it is I spend way to much time on the phone with folks (Which actually is usually quit fun).. We take our orders months in advance usually a get deposits that helps cover the interest on the price of the animal that we could of sold. It helps to keep people from leaving you holding the bag..

I don't think the industry will change to a grass fed system... Just saying in the right situation it can be a profitable side venture. That being said, the ROI on our grasslamb system is much, much, better than 1% but their generational and finishing period make that possible whereas cattle don't...

 

[Jason]

A few years back I remember chatting with a seemingly nice gal from Kentucky on one of these cattle boards who thought she was making a killing off selling beef to city folks.

She made it appear on the surface she was going to expand on the cashflow provided by this venture.

Something didn't sit right so I asked her a few questions, and it became apperant it was her hobby while she was waiting for her land to sell to a developer.

She could make enough cash to cover her direct costs, but there wasn't a penny left over for savings or improvements. She got pretty nasty when she realized her venture wasn't what she had claimed.

I think all producers need to understand the rest of the industry, not so they can become a huge coperate entity, but so they can make wise decisions.

If a new producer backed venture opens up, do potential producer investors really know what they are in for? As long as they go in with their eyes open, I am all for free enterprize. What I hate to see is some that can't afford to lose the investment be taken by a fast talking producer spokesman that doesn't realize they haven't got a business plan.

One outfit here actually went on TV news and said we just need to get these cattle killed an the markets for the beef will just follow. That attitude is a sure recipe for disaster.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Are you sitting down Jason-I'm about to to agree with you. The glut of packing house ventures in the last few years are just an example of 'the road to hell being paved with good intentions' most guys sunk their money in with the thought it might work and if it doesn't so what. I think the best way to compete is to fly under the radar of the big players not try and outbig them because it just won't work-to compete you have to become what they are. If you can carve out a niche direct marketing and make your own operation more profitable-more power to you. Dylan and Colleen Biggs have been working at it for years-they can attest to the trials and tribulations involved. The people who have the courage to think outside the box and try new things deserve alot of credit-remember a bigshot is just a little shot who didn't stop shooting.

 

[ET Doc]

FH,
Sorry to be slow getting back to you. We were gone ultrasounding Hereford bulls the past couple of days.
The Touchstone donors I've flushed were about 1150-1200 lb. cows, which for cattle running on the short grass of eastern Wyoming is probably big enough.
On the discussion about land prices and the value of growing corn, where the Touchstone Angus cattle run there won't be much corn grown unless we have a major climatic change :lol: :lol: , but that short grass is pretty nutritious and should work to grass fatten cattle.

 

[Denny]

FH,
Sorry to be slow getting back to you. We were gone ultrasounding Hereford bulls the past couple of days.
The Touchstone donors I've flushed were about 1150-1200 lb. cows, which for cattle running on the short grass of eastern Wyoming is probably big enough.
On the discussion about land prices and the value of growing corn, where the Touchstone Angus cattle run there won't be much corn grown unless we have a major climatic change :lol: :lol: , but that short grass is pretty nutritious and should work to grass fatten cattle.

Would'nt that grass be better utilized for a cow/calf operation and finish the cattle out on cheaper feed stuffs

The problem is alot of marginal hayland and pastures in Minnesota will be converted to growing grains.Putting more value on pastures and hayland for cow/calf operations.

The high price of corn is having a negative effect on cattle prices and a positive effect on all grains which are following the corn prices up.Many feeders are looking at substituteing the corn for other grains such as wheat and barley.Both of those crops can be grown out west which will have an increased value due to corn demand.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

2. MANY PHYSICIAN and other dietary opinion leaders are
recommending grass finished beef as a 'health food" to their
patients and demand has skyrocketed. (my note here, "really? I
wonder if that can be proven?")

Faster Horses-Concerning the "Thrust" toward healthier diets, and Organic Food Fads: We must realize that a great percentage of the USA population is Urban - and as a result of extremely high "City" cost of living expenses, (Husband and Wife - -Father and Mother) are BOTH employed - traveling eye-popping distances round-trip to work every day (150 - 250+ miles) and spending 3-4 hours per day travel time!

I had more than a few patients when I was practicing (in the Los Angeles Area) who were paying $2300 - $3500 per month House Payments, left their home at 4:30 or 5:00 AM and didn't get home until 8:30 - 9:00 PM! And had two or three kids with a live-in 'baby sitter'. There - FAST FOOD JOINTS were where they got most of their meals.

That is the reason for the rush to eliminate saturated fats and cholesterol from their diets as much as they can. They "jump" on every "New and Improved" idea on eating that comes on TV and radio and computer "POP UP" ads. AND the Sunday newspapers and the dirg of magazine ideas and ads!

The U.S. is overwhelmed with an insidious disease problem titled, "Over-Eating Syndrome" or "OES." Every new crack-pot idea that some hot-shot con artist comes up with is a "Syndrome" or a "Deficiency" or, God forbid, a "Disease!" And, or yes, they add "Chronic" to the disease title to make it sound more terrifying. You probably have heard the latest thing that is sweeping the country like a plague - the dreaded "Restless Leg's Syndrome!" And God knows what all terrible food-stuffs that we eat is causing THAT problem!

The Medical profession, the "Junk Food" manufacturers and restaurants and "Golden Arches" distributors, et al, are capitalizing on the demand for healthier food products, and as a result we have EVERY FOOD provider and supplier chasing "Low Fat", "More Nutritious Diets"and "Weight Losing Plans" which provide the necessary food for you - so you don't even have to THINK about what or how to eat!

And PROTEIN-SUPPLYING Beef is part of the nutiritional Basic Elements which keep us all alive and, hopefully, HEALTHY!

BUT - for Pat's Sake, don't let "Restless Leg's Syndome" catch up to you -or your @$$ is gr@$$!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

FH,
Sorry to be slow getting back to you. We were gone ultrasounding Hereford bulls the past couple of days.
The Touchstone donors I've flushed were about 1150-1200 lb. cows, which for cattle running on the short grass of eastern Wyoming is probably big enough.
On the discussion about land prices and the value of growing corn, where the Touchstone Angus cattle run there won't be much corn grown unless we have a major climatic change :lol: :lol: , but that short grass is pretty nutritious and should work to grass fatten cattle.

Would'nt that grass be better utilized for a cow/calf operation and finish the cattle out on cheaper feed stuffs

The problem is alot of marginal hayland and pastures in Minnesota will be converted to growing grains.Putting more value on pastures and hayland for cow/calf operations.

The high price of corn is having a negative effect on cattle prices and a positive effect on all grains which are following the corn prices up.Many feeders are looking at substituteing the corn for other grains such as wheat and barley.Both of those crops can be grown out west which will have an increased value due to corn demand.

Denny just think what those few calves would be worth if all the cattle fattened in the US were done on grass.

 

[Denny]

FH,
Sorry to be slow getting back to you. We were gone ultrasounding Hereford bulls the past couple of days.
The Touchstone donors I've flushed were about 1150-1200 lb. cows, which for cattle running on the short grass of eastern Wyoming is probably big enough.
On the discussion about land prices and the value of growing corn, where the Touchstone Angus cattle run there won't be much corn grown unless we have a major climatic change :lol: :lol: , but that short grass is pretty nutritious and should work to grass fatten cattle.

Would'nt that grass be better utilized for a cow/calf operation and finish the cattle out on cheaper feed stuffs

The problem is alot of marginal hayland and pastures in Minnesota will be converted to growing grains.Putting more value on pastures and hayland for cow/calf operations.

The high price of corn is having a negative effect on cattle prices and a positive effect on all grains which are following the corn prices up.Many feeders are looking at substituteing the corn for other grains such as wheat and barley.Both of those crops can be grown out west which will have an increased value due to corn demand.

Denny just think what those few calves would be worth if all the cattle fattened in the US were done on grass.

They had better be worth alot as were all short on grass anyhow would have to cut the cowherd in 1/2 then import more canadian beef.